Ruminations on King pop times

[Skinner]

How do you explain maintenance though? To me the way that HNMs pop after maintenance shows that pop time is determined when the window opens. If the pop time was calculated at the ToD then wouldn't they pop 21-24 hours after maintenance? I guess some time could be programmed in during maintenance but that seems unlikely to me.

[Krandor]

Is there a way for to code for a monster to load claimed to some random person in the zone/area similar to item popped mobs? I think it would server to eliminate bots and gives any LS at least a random chance of getting some sort of claim. Then any and all LS's can actually get these monsters without having to bot.

That just turns King Camping into "Who can bring the most people to zone." As much as people hate on it, the competition aspect of Kings does appeal to some people.

@ the above poster : Huh?

[RKenshin]

Slight off-topic a sec... But I love the irony in how WhiteCuirass, who apparently was/is in an LS that dominates king camps but does not bot, is extremely upset at the thought of people thinking of ways to prevent others from botting them. I mean, that's what this thread is all about in hindsight, making it so kings and the like are as clean of bots as possible.

Sounds a lot like he's upset that his bots won't work if SE ever went through with these plans. I mean really, if you didn't bot, there's no reason not to be happy over any good change against botters.

There's a lot other things wrong with his post of course, but that in particular stuck out nicely. Nothing better than a person saying "yeah, keep believing that the top LSs all bot you fuckin lame pathetic queers." and then admitting they bot without knowing it, due to some lack of IQ or whatever.

[divisortheory]

How do you explain maintanance though? To me the way that HNMs pop after maintanance shows that pop time is determined when the window opens. If the pop time was calculated at the ToD then wouldn't they pop 21-24 hours after maitanance? I guess some time could be programmed in during maintanance but that seems unlikely to me.

When the server is initializing, determine pop times for everything. Why does it seem unlikely that they would initialize things during their initialization process?

[aurik]

How do you explain maintanance though? To me the way that HNMs pop after maintanance shows that pop time is determined when the window opens. If the pop time was calculated at the ToD then wouldn't they pop 21-24 hours after maitanance? I guess some time could be programmed in during maintanance but that seems unlikely to me.

When the server comes up the zone is seeded with an initial event which pops fafnir in 0-3 hours randomly?

This also explains why Steam Cleaner on some servers took a vacation in 2005. Glitched event scheduling = no pop. No pop = no repop.

[Faranim]

As to the Fafnir/Nidhogg question.

Think of Nidhogg as any PH NM where Fafnir is the PH. Some (but not all) Lottery NMs have a "window" in which they cannot spawn. No matter how many PHs you kill during this window, the NM will never spawn. However, if you know the window, you can pop the NM after killing a single PH.

Nidhoggs window is probably 48 hours (it could be more/less though). Which means that after a Nidhogg dies, it can't pop again until at least 48 hours have passed. Because Fafnir usually spawns + is killed in less than 24 hours, we can assume that there will always be 2 "100% Fafs" after any Nidhogg. This might not necessecarily be true, it may still be possible to go Nidhogg > Fafnir > Nidhogg if Fafnir is left alive long enough.

There's also something weird that happens during a server reset. Most kings spawn the 2nd or 3rd day after a reset, but you never find Nidhogg/KB/Aspi up immediately after one. Also, lottery NMs which are killed very infrequently usually pop quickly, but those which are camped non-stop tend to take longer to spawn (this may be merely a coincidence, or SE may have put code in there which causes this behavior. This code could also be shared with those "leave PH up for 24+ hours" NMs)

[RKenshin]

I'm pretty sure some NMs are just a flat out lottery with no limitations on how long it takes them to respawn though.. This doesn't necessarily apply to HNMs of course, but I've seen it happen for normal NMs.

Personally, I've seen one NM in particular spawn in as little as 2 hours after its last death... And as long as around 58 hours after it's last death, killing PHs on and off throughout the stretch of time (while alone). In another instance on the same NM, I've also seen 27 hours pass with no pop. Then in addition, the PHs have remained untouched for days and it would still take a while to pop it after killing PHs.

I find it hard to believe that the limit is really up in the range of days, pretty sure it's just a flat out lottery with no limitations on how long it takes.

[phlux]

yep windows for HNM that can be narrowed down to 30min intervals = bad i'm surprised SE didn't even forsee bots coming when they implemented something like that. I'm not a genius but i can tell you anything predictable in an online game is bottable.

Are we playing the same game? Pop "windows" make it much easier for people to claim legitimately. Try claiming Fafnir, then try claiming Bune. Tell me which one encourages botting more.

[Seyrr]

I'm pretty sure some NMs are just a flat out lottery with no limitations on how long it takes them to respawn though.. This doesn't necessarily apply to HNMs of course, but I've seen it happen for normal NMs.

Just to add my personal experience, I've seen back to back Leaping Lizzys, i.e. the first PH pop after Lizzy was Lizzy.

[RKenshin]

It was confirmed quite a while ago that there are actually two PHs with their own lotteries for Leaping Lizzy, although no one really knows why, so that's definitely possible. Nearly all (if not all) other NMs I know of only have one PH though.

[Seyrr]

I remember someone mentioning that there were two PHs for Lizzy, but not that they had their own separate lotteries. How strange! Are there any other NMs that work the same way? I know Bugbear Strongman appears to have four possible spawn points, but really there's one PH that moves between two spawn points... that's probably not the same, though, is it?

[RKenshin]

I don't remember the details, but it was either figured out through the use of a packet sniffer (or something like that) or reading the .dat files ? I forgot, but somehow they found out two Lizards were each capable of spawning Leaping Lizzy... And I even think that there have been very very rare instances of them both being up at the same time, as hard as that would be to notice considering how fast it usually dies and the wide spawn range.

Stuff like Ungur, that Bugbear, etc, are different as far as I know. Aurik talked about it briefly earlier in this post, and I pretty much agree that it's just a PH that moves around, and when the NM is going to pop it pops in a separate area. The same thing is done for other NMs I know of that definitely have 1 PH, and still pop in different areas.

[razorcat]

Is there a way for to code for a monster to load claimed to some random person in the zone/area similar to item popped mobs? I think it would server to eliminate bots and gives any LS at least a random chance of getting some sort of claim. Then any and all LS's can actually get these monsters without having to bot.

That just turns King Camping into "Who can bring the most people to zone." As much as people hate on it, the competition aspect of Kings does appeal to some people.

@ the above poster : Huh?

Well... each person in DA has a random chance in claiming the mob already. Amidst all the lag and pixel's loading, I sometimes don't even see fafnir/nidhogg after popping unless I get up to where most people are crowding around. And I certainly won't see it pop much less have time to target and provoke the mob. If you bot, your chance of claiming is higher. And with all these accusations of botting, this method will eliminate the need for bots and those casual players will get some hope of even seeing some of the nice gear.


Furthermore, even if its a "how many people can you bring to HNM King's Camp," the zones are already super packed and super lagged. Wouldn't you prefer having a (number LS people in zone)/(total number in zone)x100% chance of claiming it when it spawns instead of leaving it to randomness of claim? I certainly would. This method would be nice for Ulli as well. I hate the lag at all these zones. But if I have some sort of chance to claim, I'm willing to suffer the lag.

[Khamsin]

Is there a way for to code for a monster to load claimed to some random person in the zone/area similar to item popped mobs? I think it would server to eliminate bots and gives any LS at least a random chance of getting some sort of claim. Then any and all LS's can actually get these monsters without having to bot.

That just turns King Camping into "Who can bring the most people to zone." As much as people hate on it, the competition aspect of Kings does appeal to some people.

@ the above poster : Huh?

Well... each person in DA has a random chance in claiming the mob already. Amidst all the lag and pixel's loading, I sometimes don't even see fafnir/nidhogg after popping unless I get up to where most people are crowding around. And I certainly won't see it pop much less have time to target and provoke the mob. If you bot, your chance of claiming is higher. And with all these accusations of botting, this method will eliminate the need for bots and those casual players will get some hope of even seeing some of the nice gear.


Furthermore, even if its a "how many people can you bring to HNM King's Camp," the zones are already super packed and super lagged. Wouldn't you prefer having a (number LS people in zone)/(total number in zone)x100% chance of claiming it when it spawns instead of leaving it to randomness of claim? I certainly would. This method would be nice for Ulli as well. I hate the lag at all these zones. But if I have some sort of chance to claim, I'm willing to suffer the lag.

And if you already claim more often than (number LS people in zone)/(total number in zone)x100%? This would make things worse.

[Vinto]

Personally, I've seen one NM in particular spawn in as little as 2 hours after its last death... And as long as around 58 hours after it's last death, killing PHs on and off throughout the stretch of time (while alone).

I bet you anything that the NM he's talking about is Jaded Jody I hate that thing with a passion.

[Neptune]

keep staying jealous of people wearing Koenig Cuirass, Dalmatica, Crimson Scale Mail,

A little late, but LOL at this. Maybe in 2004.

[Mr.City]

Oh God, not another king thread.

[Stilgar]

I motion that Ullikummi be made an official fourth king, in the grounds of his superior desirability, the fact that he already has his own kinglike lair, and the unfailing prescence of legions of adventurers vying for the pull. Oh, and a fucking super long window.

[Lordender]

I seriously doubt anyone is claiming shit legitimately which is why there is always this debate about the three kings.

[Ferien]

yep windows for HNM that can be narrowed down to 30min intervals = bad i'm surprised SE didn't even forsee bots coming when they implemented something like that. I'm not a genius but i can tell you anything predictable in an online game is bottable.

Are we playing the same game? Pop "windows" make it much easier for people to claim legitimately. Try claiming Fafnir, then try claiming Bune. Tell me which one encourages botting more.

God...I remember my old days...Simurgh, Roc, Bune, Serket...TBH, I'd rather sit at a king camp for 3 hours, at least I can get up to take a piss without having to worry about missing pop.