Ruminations on King pop times

[Swatt]

yep windows for HNM that can be narrowed down to 30min intervals = bad i'm surprised SE didn't even forsee bots coming when they implemented something like that. I'm not a genius but i can tell you anything predictable in an online game is bottable.

Are we playing the same game? Pop "windows" make it much easier for people to claim legitimately. Try claiming Fafnir, then try claiming Bune. Tell me which one encourages botting more.

God...I remember my old days...Simurgh, Roc, Bune, Serket...TBH, I'd rather sit at a king camp for 3 hours, at least I can get up to take a piss without having to worry about missing pop.

i remember mine. when they would be up walking around -.-

oh, did you know Serket doesn't aggro =p

[Kyreth]

As long as there is a window there will be a problem. Bahamut v2 or Assault is the way to go for all NMs. A ls skill/gear shouldnt be determined by pressing voke faster than the next man. NM pops dont work anymore they are outdated and should be removed from the game.

Agreed 100%

Disagree. NM's need to have a much broader spawn point than they do now. If Hoo Mjuu spawns off a Yagudo Mendicant, he should be able to pop off of every single one in the zone- that is, ALL Mendicants are placeholders in Giddeus.

NM's were supposed to be random happy surprises. Since they have a small spawn area, they no longer are and we have campers. Massively expand that spawn area and the NM is no longer campable. If Valkrum Emperor popped off of any fly in the zone, it'd no longer be as trackable via widescan and the like. Maybe he'd show up on the secret beach. Maybe up near the Plateau. Hoo Mjuu could show up on top. Or on the lower level. Or in the tunnels. Anywhere. Going for a Kote? He can show up on any Drummer or Interrogator. Good luck, you stupid botters. .dat swapping the placeholder? Now every other Yagudo looks like your Moogle. Have fun trying.

HNM's need to remember their slayers. Kill an HNM too much, it gets meaner. Maybe it automatically goes into super mode or adds nastier special attacks, like Apkallu do. Perhaps it simply gains damage resistance based on hate. Make that hate fade slowly. You want to camp Arthos 24/7? Try killing the thing when all you do is 0's, bot boy...and it spams AoE water nukes that ignore shadows and knock you halfway across the zone to the other side of the lake, then drop your hate to the bottom of the list so it can go tool everyone else in your RMT gimp alliance.

And while you're at it, if you can spread the spawn point on the HNM around a bit too. Fafhogg can show up anywhere in the Aery he damn well pleases. Or Behemoth in Behemoth's Dominion. You're in the wrong place at the wrong time? Too bad. They're supposed to be forces of nature. Try predicting where the lightning hits next.

Rare monsters were meant to be a treat, rather than something you did day in and day out or someone cockblocks the entire server out of- you'd stumble across one unexpectedly and hopefully got something nice out of the encounter.

They're too predictable. They need to become less predictable and more dangerous to the people who try to monopolize them.

[Kyreth]

Is there a way for to code for a monster to load claimed to some random person in the zone/area similar to item popped mobs? I think it would server to eliminate bots and gives any LS at least a random chance of getting some sort of claim. Then any and all LS's can actually get these monsters without having to bot.

Mentioned just such an animal (in Soviet HNM hunting, monster claims YOU) a few months back. People hollered about it being unfair and that linkshells would clog the area with players.

[Codernaut]

Mentioned just such an animal (in Soviet HNM hunting, monster claims YOU) a few months back. People hollered about it being unfair and that linkshells would clog the area with players.

Shouldn't the linkshell with the most people in a zone have the highest chance at claiming anyway?

Only problem I see with that is you could camp while afk.

(and that still doesn't fix the lesser HNMs which are monopilized by botters and gil sellers)


Edit: lol, just got a mental image of a ridiculous pop-up warning. "Claim Nidhogg?" "Yes" "No" to see if you were afk-camping.

[Kyreth]

Mentioned just such an animal (in Soviet HNM hunting, monster claims YOU) a few months back. People hollered about it being unfair and that linkshells would clog the area with players.

Shouldn't the linkshell with the most people in a zone have the highest chance at claiming anyway?

Only problem I see with that is you could camp while afk.

(and that still doesn't fix the lesser HNMs which are monopilized by botters and gil sellers)

Edit: lol, just got a mental image of a ridiculous pop-up warning. "Claim Nidhogg?" "Yes" "No" to see if you were afk-camping.

Way I had it was giving HNM's a "widescan" style ability, and then it'd pick a target that qualifed off the list and spawn with hate on that target.

Now, if you made that a bit more selective, it'd work peachy keen.

HNM (lets say Fafhogg) checks it's "widescan", which has filters similar to search. Say, it filters for anyone over level 60. If you're vindictive, you can even give him a preference for something chewy....like mages or puppetmasters. Or an "enemy" job (Hi, Mr. Dragoon!). Randomize most of these filters, save for level.

Our bad mutha dragon picks his target from the list. He then spawns claimed and makes a beeline for his new "friend" with hate in his heart and dinner on his mind. The target is flagged- if KO'ed or they lose too much hate (like zoning) Fafhogg will wipe it's hate list and pick a new target as if he'd just spawned.

No clogging the area with piles of mules. Fafhogg ignores the pathetic L5 sac pullers. No botclaiming. Fafhogg could give a flying fuck about your claim program. He knows what he wants. Try and stop him- your alliance can get him off his dinner, as long as dinner participates enough to stay up there on the hate list....so your gimps helping you claim the HNM can't keep up? He's going to wipe hate and retarget. Hope you didn't just end up provoking him in the tail for the spike flail fail.

[Jer]

The problem with making the spawn areas larger for NMs is that it will only hurt legitimate players. It doesn't stop rmt or just botters from warping to it, like what Ulli is like now.

[sleekmotorwurkz]

Slightly off topic but when servers came back up the other day our ls was at all 3 king camps and the time seemed to be off. After the first king popped we used that pop time to determine exactly when the servers came up, but the other 2 were off by 2-3 minutes each.

I dont remember exactly but for example

Faffy pop 9:31:35
Behemoth pop 9:58:12
Adaman pop 10:33:25

Didnt make sense.. any ideas?

[nsx]

Each zone is on a different server. The reboot time is not going to be idenctical between 2 different pieces of hardware.

[aurik]

Slightly off topic but when servers came back up the other day our ls was at all 3 king camps and the time seemed to be off. After the first king popped we used that pop time to determine exactly when the servers came up, but the other 2 were off by 2-3 minutes each.

I dont remember exactly but for example

Faffy pop 9:31:35
Behemoth pop 9:58:12
Adaman pop 10:33:25

Didnt make sense.. any ideas?

Zone servers were booted at slightly different times.

[Sidanoir]

What is wrong with kings in this game is that...

I would rather have my LS camp a Day 5 Fafnir, then go to an unclaimed Tiamat, just because after all the time since Zilart is released they drop the best gear still for many jobs/slots....

Furthermore in all the time Tiamat has been released, he still drops nothing better than a way to run to Dragon's Aery faster to camp Fafnir..since who kites mobs anymore? Well except maybe King Behemoth..

Wyrm Horns are worth nothing now too :/ new recipe for them would be nice...

Noritsune Kote are decent for NIN trying to use meat..but why use meat when sushi owns so much...

Its the lack of gear progression with mob difficulty that fails , in addition the retarded spawn timers, retarded claiming system :/

Bahamut v2 even....hell even Ouryu....much harder fights than any king yet compared to king drops still fail :/

[Kyreth]

The problem with making the spawn areas larger for NMs is that it will only hurt legitimate players. It doesn't stop rmt or just botters from warping to it, like what Ulli is like now.

Of course, it'll make it completely fucking obvious when you see the claimer jump through six walls and up a floor to do so, even to a lolGM.

The wider the spawn area, the harder it is to cheat "under the radar" to do so.

[Zetah]

What is wrong with kings in this game is that...

I would rather have my LS camp a Day 5 Fafnir, then go to an unclaimed Tiamat, just because after all the time since Zilart is released they drop the best gear still for many jobs/slots....

Furthermore in all the time Tiamat has been released, he still drops nothing better than a way to run to Dragon's Aery faster to camp Fafnir..since who kites mobs anymore? Well except maybe King Behemoth..

Wyrm Horns are worth nothing now too :/ new recipe for them would be nice...

Noritsune Kote are decent for NIN trying to use meat..but why use meat when sushi owns so much...

Its the lack of gear progression with mob difficulty that fails , in addition the retarded spawn timers, retarded claiming system :/

Bahamut v2 even....hell even Ouryu....much harder fights than any king yet compared to king drops still fail :/

Why fight them? Because it's a GAME. I thought you logged onto this game to kill shit.

[Khamsin]

The problem with making the spawn areas larger for NMs is that it will only hurt legitimate players. It doesn't stop rmt or just botters from warping to it, like what Ulli is like now.

Of course, it'll make it completely fucking obvious when you see the claimer jump through six walls and up a floor to do so, even to a lolGM.

The wider the spawn area, the harder it is to cheat "under the radar" to do so.

Are you sure it wasn't just lag?

[Sidanoir]

What is wrong with kings in this game is that...

I would rather have my LS camp a Day 5 Fafnir, then go to an unclaimed Tiamat, just because after all the time since Zilart is released they drop the best gear still for many jobs/slots....

Furthermore in all the time Tiamat has been released, he still drops nothing better than a way to run to Dragon's Aery faster to camp Fafnir..since who kites mobs anymore? Well except maybe King Behemoth..

Wyrm Horns are worth nothing now too :/ new recipe for them would be nice...

Noritsune Kote are decent for NIN trying to use meat..but why use meat when sushi owns so much...

Its the lack of gear progression with mob difficulty that fails , in addition the retarded spawn timers, retarded claiming system :/

Bahamut v2 even....hell even Ouryu....much harder fights than any king yet compared to king drops still fail :/

Why fight them? Because it's a GAME. I thought you logged onto this game to kill shit.

Apparently the point I was making went entirely over your head...Tiamat is a lot of fun to fight sure, but the fact of the matter remains that the gear she drops is horrible in comparison to Fafnir/Nidhogg.....yet Tiamat is in general a more challenging fight....does that make you comprehend more? Is there not something wrong with that picture? Risk vs reward factor here?
My LS has killed 23 Tiamats now..which is a decent amount..yet only 4 Nidhoggs....and about 40ish fafnirs...
We shouldnt still be fighting Fafnir/Nidhogg is my point...but we are cause of the claim system...and the fact that SE has yet to put gear in thats better than what they drop..

Game progression and flawled claiming system suck

[Khamsin]

What is wrong with kings in this game is that...

I would rather have my LS camp a Day 5 Fafnir, then go to an unclaimed Tiamat, just because after all the time since Zilart is released they drop the best gear still for many jobs/slots....

Furthermore in all the time Tiamat has been released, he still drops nothing better than a way to run to Dragon's Aery faster to camp Fafnir..since who kites mobs anymore? Well except maybe King Behemoth..

Wyrm Horns are worth nothing now too :/ new recipe for them would be nice...

Noritsune Kote are decent for NIN trying to use meat..but why use meat when sushi owns so much...

Its the lack of gear progression with mob difficulty that fails , in addition the retarded spawn timers, retarded claiming system :/

Bahamut v2 even....hell even Ouryu....much harder fights than any king yet compared to king drops still fail :/

Why fight them? Because it's a GAME. I thought you logged onto this game to kill shit.

Apparently the point I was making went entirely over your head...Tiamat is a lot of fun to fight sure, but the fact of the matter remains that the gear she drops is horrible in comparison to Fafnir/Nidhogg.....yet Tiamat is in general a more challenging fight....does that make you comprehend more? Is there not something wrong with that picture? Risk vs reward factor here?
My LS has killed 23 Tiamats now..which is a decent amount..yet only 4 Nidhoggs....and about 40ish fafnirs...
We shouldnt still be fighting Fafnir/Nidhogg is my point...but we are cause of the claim system...and the fact that SE has yet to put gear in thats better than what they drop..

Game progression and flawled claiming system suck

If you think about it, SE must have done something right regarding the balance between Fafnir and Tiamat. Afterall, Tiamat is much easier to claim than Fafnir. Fafnir has much better drops. So perhaps they designed the balance with ease of claim as the "risk"? Risk of wasting your time?

It would be imbalanced if Tiamat was easier to claim than Fafnir, and yet had better drops.

[Sidanoir]

Tiamat is only "easier" to claim because it doesn't pop for several real life days...whereas Fafnir pops everyday...

Normally its a mad rush to go to Tiamat after it pops on my server...I hear its worse on some servers where people actually leave holding parties there.

If there was some sort of good gear introduced on newer NMs with same window as Fafnir..it wouldn't make the claim system as bad since instead of 150 ppl in aery and Fafnir disappearing on you while yoru fighting him cause everyone is standing on its paws..you might see 2-3 LS at fafnir for 50ish people...and another 50 at a 2nd NM that also has good drops..and another 50 at a 3rd NM that has good drops..
When it comes to getting best end game gear its Fafnir/Nidhogg or bust largely and that is kind of sad :/ Forutnately gear they drop is by no means necessary for the more challenging fights in the game, but still it is very nice to gear your LS up ...and sometimes gear usually takes priority over enjoyment for most HNMLS...

[Khamsin]

If there was some sort of good gear introduced on newer NMs with same window as Fafnir..it wouldn't make the claim system as bad since instead of 150 ppl in aery and Fafnir disappearing on you while yoru fighting him cause everyone is standing on its paws..you might see 2-3 LS at fafnir for 50ish people...and another 50 at a 2nd NM that also has good drops..and another 50 at a 3rd NM that has good drops..

That idea has some merit. Maybe introduce two new kings? Maybe a giant turtle to put in Valley of Sorrows and a giant purple dog for Behemoth's Dominion. They could put stuff like Defending Ring and an alternative source for Dalmatica on them. Then we'll have 50 people in each camp instead of 150 at one.

Though personally, I think the issue is more that Fafnir is the only NQ that has worthwhile drops. Maybe add something to NQ turtle and behemoth to make them campable, so people don't just go to day 5+ turtles and behemoth, but daily to aery.

Also remove hides from NQ behemoth and stick them on KB. Just make KB drop 2-5x the number of hides as NQ does.

[Isiolia]

I think what he meant was to have multiple HNMs pop at the same time. Like, if you actually had Nidhogg, Aspid, and KB all popping at once ever 21-24 hours, people would generally have to make a choice over which to try and get.

When the pops are staggered, doesn't really matter, as people just hop from one to the next. The oft-mentioned point about NQ loot though is quite valid though, particularly when windows overlap.


It'd be a lot less work, and make a lot more people happier, to just put the darn fights in BCs of some kind already. Hell, you could force people to do parts of the game if part of the requirements to enter were key items you got at rank 10 for different nations or something like that.

[Codernaut]

The important point of this whole thread is that anyone who's been to more than 5 cycles worth of King pops can come up with a fairer and more interesting system then what SE currently has in place.

The worst part, as others have said, is that they have introduced plenty of harder monsters that could potentially draw people away from the 3 kings but they gave them loldrops instead of gear that is either better or the same as the zilart abjurations on top of whatever unique gear they felt like adding.

[Mephisto]

I doubt even the first Fafnir to spawn, ever, went a week without being killed. But its an interesting question.

wrong