Student gets tased in UCLA library o.O

[Devek]

Real world located in the heartland of America circa 2006.

[SephYuyX]

Cops were in the wrong no matter which way you look at it, sorry.

There are different tazer settings as well, they used the one of the mid settings the first time, and lower settings the rest. Lower setting focus on one part, mid settings will effect the whole body, high settings will fuck you up.

The fact is, any normal cop, especially with four of them, would just carry them out, they do it here all the time, and this is the same thing my boss' husband whould have done.

Hes cuffed, two cops grab his arms on each side, two cops grab the back of his feet and carry him out. THis is common procedure and its done every damn day.

When a cop says this is police brutaility, its wrong. And I guess we'll just have to see where this case goes to get the final answer.

[Pwulp]

It seems to me that using the taser on him 4-5 times may have been a little over the edge, but I can't really blame the cops as people. It wasn't ideal law enforcement, but it's easy to see where they were coming from. There's been some serious crimes there recently, so they've probably had a lot of talks about being very cautious, and then they go to remove what would appear to be a trespasser and he starts acting like a complete prick. Just like the other person said, there were a LOT of students there and they all appeared to be on the annoying prick's side, and there were only 4 policemen, if I remember correctly.

If I'm one of those 4 policemen and I'm trying to escort some loudmouth idiot (which this guy definitely is) out of the building and there's around 50 students that are growing increasingly unruly, you can bet I'm going to do whatever I can to get the stupid prick out as quickly as possible before it turns into a riot.

[Endo]

It seems to me that using the taser on him 4-5 times may have been a little over the edge, but I can't really blame the cops as people. It wasn't ideal law enforcement, but it's easy to see where they were coming from. There's been some serious crimes there recently, so they've probably had a lot of talks about being very cautious, and then they go to remove what would appear to be a trespasser and he starts acting like a complete prick. Just like the other person said, there were a LOT of students there and they all appeared to be on the annoying prick's side, and there were only 4 policemen, if I remember correctly.

If I'm one of those 4 policemen and I'm trying to escort some loudmouth idiot (which this guy definitely is) out of the building and there's around 50 students that are growing increasingly unruly, you can bet I'm going to do whatever I can to get the stupid prick out as quickly as possible before it turns into a riot.

According to someones husband's wife's second cousin who is a cop they were idiots and should have let the students get unruly. 4 super cops vs 50 students easy win if you ask me

[SephYuyX]

It seems to me that using the taser on him 4-5 times may have been a little over the edge, but I can't really blame the cops as people. It wasn't ideal law enforcement, but it's easy to see where they were coming from. There's been some serious crimes there recently, so they've probably had a lot of talks about being very cautious, and then they go to remove what would appear to be a trespasser and he starts acting like a complete prick. Just like the other person said, there were a LOT of students there and they all appeared to be on the annoying prick's side, and there were only 4 policemen, if I remember correctly.

If I'm one of those 4 policemen and I'm trying to escort some loudmouth idiot (which this guy definitely is) out of the building and there's around 50 students that are growing increasingly unruly, you can bet I'm going to do whatever I can to get the stupid prick out as quickly as possible before it turns into a riot.

According to someones husband's wife's second cousin who is a cop they were idiots and should have let the students get unruly. 4 super cops vs 50 students easy win if you ask me

So standing in the same room for 6 minutes asking for someone to stand up and keep tasing him causing him to fall down again is smart right?

They could of cuffed him and dragged him into the police car in under 1 minute.

Good logic there.

[archibaldcrane]

According to someones husband's wife's second cousin who is a cop they were idiots and should have let the students get unruly. 4 super cops vs 50 students easy win if you ask me

Yeah, the best way to keep them from getting unruly is by tasing the handcuffed suspect.

/sarcasm

[Endo]

Obviously they were unable to get him out or they would have. No sane person is going to continually shock the kid so they can rub it into 50 students face's who are standing there. You honestly feel that those 4 cops had no trouble getting this kid out and just let him to lay there so they could test the taser a few times? Watch the video again they tried to lift him a few times but the tree hugger kept fighting

[Zhais]

I highly doubt got a lot of the students upset was not the guy screaming about the Patriot Act, but more the repeated tazings the guy was receiving.

The first taze /might/ have been justified, hard to truly tell due to the timing of the video being started and the quality of it. The next taze especially was unjustified. If someone is refusing to get up, sending shocks throughout their body isn't gonna get them to stand up willingly or unwillingly. A tazer to the stomach (which is where they left it for a good 5 seconds) will make you double over.

Yes, the student's words were probably unjustified a bit. But nowhere in the video did it show him fighting against the officers in a way it would deem harmful to their or the public's safety. If you have a handcuffed man writhing on the ground, with the police officers NOT tazing him, the public will not get rowdy and try and overrun the officers. More than likely, they will sit quietly back and watch the crazy kid on the ground yelling his head off. But because the officers started shocking him while handcuffed, the keen sense of inhumanity within the college students perked up, which is why they where crowded around more and asking for the badge #s.

Kind've a case of taking uneccessary precautions. A student riot wouldn't have occurred with officers doing their job and just that. A student riot came close to happening because the police abused their job priveliges.

[SephYuyX]

Obviously they were unable to get him out or they would have. No sane person is going to continually shock the kid so they can rub it into 50 students face's who are standing there. You honestly feel that those 4 cops had no trouble getting this kid out and just let him to lay there so they could test the taser a few times? Watch the video again they tried to lift him a few times but the tree hugger kept fighting

They had four cops there, they tased him and he was on the ground enough to get his hands behind his back and cuffed. There is no reason that four cops couldnt grab each limb and carry him out. If you want video evidence, watch an episode of cops, they do it on there too. Its been done by 2 and 3 cops and on bigger men.

[Viktor Vaughn]

I was in the US Navy. Everyone on the ship is trained in standing watch, using guns, roaming gaurd. It is extremely easy to for 4 trained officers to harmlessly bring down a 170-200 pound man and restrain him. The you simply cuff or tie their arms back and carry the person out.

Him being tazed even once was unacceptable and a breach of rights. And by the way, only the police report says he was trying to incite the crowd, it was never heard on the video nor do any students back that statement. it's a convenient ploy by the police to look innocent.

[Pwulp]

I was in the US Navy. Everyone on the ship is trained in standing watch, using guns, roaming gaurd. It is extremely easy to for 4 trained officers to harmlessly bring down a 170-200 pound man and restrain him. The you simply cuff or tie their arms back and carry the person out.

Him being tazed even once was unacceptable and a breach of rights. And by the way, only the police report says he was trying to incite the crowd, it was never heard on the video nor do any students back that statement. it's a convenient ploy by the police to look innocent.

These are University Cops, not US Navy officers. They're a rung above mall cops, so don't count on them being all that well trained.

I don't understand how "Here's your ****ing Patriot Act!" could not be considered inciting a crowd. And even if you argue that he wasn't trying to incite the crowd, the crowd was turning against the police nonetheless. When that happens, it's a natural reaction to do whatever you can to make the suspect easier to escort out so that you can get out alive.

[Axil]

He wouldve been cooler if he screamed "KENT STATE"

[Tyche]

You have to be really fucking naive to think that four trained police officers cannot restrain a handcuffed man and escort him out of a building. It's done every fucking night in bars. You taze him if he becomes an immediate threat to the surroundings, which this guy obviously wasn't. Where the hell are the cops getting that the guy was employing the masses to aide him? He didnt attempt to employ the masses to his aide, the cops did that for him. I don't reacall any particular statement trying to rally anyone in that video. Maybe the fact that four trained cops had to resort to stunning a handcuffed student rallied some cries. And then have the gal to threaten to stun students who question their judgement...that's not completely overboard?

[Endo]

There is no reason to get upset considering not one of us is going to have our views heard by the investigating body.

So my question is what do you think the cops should have done? They have had a string of violence there lately, lets not forget force protection being burned into every military/law enforcment persons head. I still feel they did nothign wrong until after the first tase (I agree it was a bit much) but the initial tase was warranted imo. 10 years ago maybe not, but now you just dont know anymore. Whomever said there was no type of situation with the students there misjudged. The ability of a group of people with a similar view is very dangerous. ALL those students felt that the cops were wrong (if they were or weren't look past that) and the idiot screaming was inciiting and getting everyone's blood going. It could have gotten very ugly and again the cops still did not know if this guy had a weapon or not.

I dont know what Navy you were in but the one I am in I am never on watch with more then maybe a UI on rover. OOD or MOOW and the POOW are on the QD. We have had drunks come onboard from ports and have had to restrain people but your not dealing with military. Your dealing with a person you dont know, that may have a weapon, already resisted arrest twice, have had a bunch of crimes commited recently, and a group of students that might be in coherts with this guy. I would have done whatever I had to do to get him out of there as well.

[Tyche]

Trying to make the corrolation of voilent acts, stabbings, and car theft on campus to a kid who refuses to leave a peaceful library is rediculous. You approach each situation differently, high alert or not. The kid was no immediate threat, handcuffed or not. The fact he was handcuffed, and tazed afterwards in completely uncalled for.

[Sheeny]

Debate - He Was/Wasn't doing anything wrong
This is a no-brainer. To be in the library you need identification. He had no identification. Case solved: Trespassing. Minor, yes, but Victim escalates the situation.
"Don't you fucking touch me!" Ok, Victim is now resisting arrest. Passive-Aggressive resistance (example: sitting on the floor ignoring commands by authorities) is still resistance. You don't have to be kicking and screaming to be resisting arrest. Police are not required to stand there, as Victim sits there, and have a staring contest until Victim leaves or the policemen's shifts end. They ARE supposed to put their hands on Victim and take him away. We don't want our law enforcement to let criminals stay put if they don't want to leave, we pay them to forcibly remove them when necessary. [Opinion: Now I couldn't really see jack shit on that video but I'm going to assume when they touched him and he said "Dont' you fucking touch me" that he accompanied it by yanking his arm/body/whatever-they-touched away, putting himself into Evasive Resistance. Can't guarantee that happened, but chances are it did.]
So at this point he was tazed, and deservedly so.

Beyond the first taze, for which you'd really have to be digging deep to say it was unnecessary, it's a matter of perspective which subsequent taze was taking it too far. Me? I believe he deserved them all. When you're tazed and you still refuse to obey the authorities - well, you're an extremely slow learner! [Being Stupid in a No-Stupid Zone is grounds for many many tazes in my book.] But like I said, it's a matter of perspective that will have many different replies with no definitive correct answer. He continued to resist so he's definitely partly/mostly/completely to blame - it's open to interpretation whether the police should have hogtied him and carried him out instead. You can't say he was incapacitated though, as his loud mouth worked just fine.

As for Victim feeling racially profiled, abused, etc., that's no excuse for disobeying authorities. You contact a lawyer afterwards and sue. All you get for making a scene before an audience is more tazes. And if it's found to be excessive? Congratulations, you're both to blame - it doesn't exonerate Victim for Trespassing/Resisting Arrest.

Overall I'm sickened by how we undermine our own system of law enforcement. We pay men and women to work under these conditions then almost always take the victim's side if something hits the media. Sure, there's plenty of abuse and it is terrible, but we seem to throw the Abuse Label onto everything because... immature people hate cops. We protect victims and dream up excuses like "he just wanted to save his work on the computer" for someone such as this guy. Why do criminals get more respect than the people out there trying to protect us? If I'd been in that library I'd have been on the sideline shouting "Get him the fuck outta here! Taze him again! Shoot him in the head! His axe is on fire! Jump, gypsy, jump! Thank you, officers." And I'd feel a lot more safe the next time I were in there.
Wheras now, I'd be paranoid the next time some trespasser shows up - cops would A) be afraid to respond or B) back down and leave at the first "Don't fucking touch me!"

I WANT my police officers to do their job. I want to feel safe. I want this kid to be tazered some more because I guarantee his behavior as an adult will be even worse than now and he is NOT someone I want in my society doing anything he ever wants with impunity.

[Endo]

He resisted though. If the kid did NOTHING wrong at all then why would he make a scene? Why not leave and press your matter with the proper people? Instead he resists and calls out the cops and their authority which at that point he got handcuffed

[Gregorio]

No one deserves to be tazed, shot or beaten if they resist police. It's not a fucking cops job to make that decision unless their or the publics lives or well-being was in immediate danger. A real police officer cannot taze you for resisting arrest. They put you to the ground and cuff you, then put you into a car.

That kid, who by the way was not in a public area but in a college he is paying for; had every right to resist. The campus cops should have gotten real police involved if they thought it was a safety issue for the students in the building.

A real police officer CAN taze you for resisting arrest. Police don't have to be in immediate danger to get you to obey them. That doesn't make sense. Ever see people who chain themselves to buildings/trees/whatever get tazed when they refuse to leave? People aren't in immediate danger then.

Even though it's been stated 100 times, I'll say it again. By not having the proper identification to gain access to the library, he had no right to be there, even though he was a student. He did not have the right to resist as he was already asked to leave. And lastly "campus cops" are real police, they're not security guards.

Actually, you have a right when pulled over that, if a cop asks you to step out of the car you can request a warrant. And if you do step out of the car, you don't have to move past the door to the front; at which point a police officer can handcuff you.

These are you rights unless a police officer has probable cause to search your car or cuff you. They don't advertise this, and after watching COPS and movies you wouldn't know this, but you can refuse to a search without a warrant from a court. At which point you all wait there while a judge draws up a warrant.

Where did you read that you don't have to get out of the car when asked? I'd like to see that case law. Stepping out of the car is not considered a search. And because you may be thinking this or bring it up, a pat-down is not considered a search either. The police don't need a warrant to ask you to get out of the car as long as they have a reason (giving a sobriety test, fearing their safety, etc.).

To actually search your car is a different story. They do need a warrant to go look inside your car unless something is in plain view or they have probable cause. And judges don't draw them up, police do, and a judge or magistrate signs them

[Endo]

Sheeny and Greg win the thread for me

[Tyche]

That still doesn't justify using those means to escort him away. Like i said, tazing just wasnt justified when the kid was walking out the door in the first place, then handcuffed. They could have just as easily picked the kid up and arraigned him. Like i said, it's naive to think the tazer was the only/best/justifyable way to approach this situation. Everyone's trying to draw these rediculous parallels. It was a kid, in a library, without an ID. Police treat alcoholics that get thrown out of bars better than that.