Student gets tased in UCLA library o.O

[Endo]

I didn't see anywhere that he attempted to leave. The guy had his camera pointed at the cpu and he claims "I was leaving" after like the second or third tase

[Viktor Vaughn]

There is no reason to get upset considering not one of us is going to have our views heard by the investigating body.

So my question is what do you think the cops should have done? They have had a string of violence there lately, lets not forget force protection being burned into every military/law enforcment persons head. I still feel they did nothign wrong until after the first tase (I agree it was a bit much) but the initial tase was warranted imo. 10 years ago maybe not, but now you just dont know anymore. Whomever said there was no type of situation with the students there misjudged. The ability of a group of people with a similar view is very dangerous. ALL those students felt that the cops were wrong (if they were or weren't look past that) and the idiot screaming was inciiting and getting everyone's blood going. It could have gotten very ugly and again the cops still did not know if this guy had a weapon or not.

I dont know what Navy you were in but the one I am in I am never on watch with more then maybe a UI on rover. OOD or MOOW and the POOW are on the QD. We have had drunks come onboard from ports and have had to restrain people but your not dealing with military. Your dealing with a person you dont know, that may have a weapon, already resisted arrest twice, have had a bunch of crimes commited recently, and a group of students that might be in coherts with this guy. I would have done whatever I had to do to get him out of there as well.

I was stationed in Yokosuka, Japan. Port stops in HK and Thailand we had 3 rovers. 2 with shotguns, one with a pistol, aboard the USS Vincennes. I'm sure you've had security drills where the come on the 1A and tell everyone to stop movement, and some retarded new guy is still walking around trying to make it to the galley or his rack - and to fuck with him you point the shotgun at him, make him freeze, and hogtie him with the restraint ties.

The training is for overseas ports where terrorism is likely.

That's what Navy I was in.

[Gregorio]

I'd agree that the tazing wasn't exactly necessary and in possibly excessive. There were other ways of going about this that probably would have been much easier for everyone.

However, the kid wasn't walking out the door, he was walking toward the door, and from the video it doesn't seem like he was that close to the doors anyway. And we don't know what caused him to end up in handcuffs either. The video and the newspaper don't follow the same storyline, and both have holes in the story. I'm going to side with the police until more information is released.

[Tyche]

I didn't see anywhere that he attempted to leave. The guy had his camera pointed at the cpu and he claims "I was leaving" after like the second or third tase

Did you read any of the eyewitness accounts? The cell phone vid cut in after he had approached the exit. I'm sorry, but im believeing the hundred or so student accounts of what happened over the reports of a few police officers trying to cover their asses.

[DoliantheBard]

When you break the law and a cop asks you to do something, DO IT!

In hindsight we all know the kid was harmless, but neither the cops nor the library personnel knew that and due to their line of business they are forced to expect the worst out of every individual they encounter. Very few of us go to work in an environment where their co-workers are regularly attacked/shot/wounded/killed so I wouldn't expect most people to understand the mindset of someone who has to deal with criminals every day.

And who the fuck told people that they have a right ot resist arrest and incite civil disobedience? I hope his parents are tasing his ass right now for being so stupid and disgracing his family's name.

As far as the request for ID being pretextually motivated, no one except the library office knows that and I'm sure he's not telling.

[Sheeny]

Did you read any of the eyewitness accounts? The cell phone vid cut in after he had approached the exit. I'm sorry, but im believeing the hundred or so student accounts of what happened over the reports of a few police officers trying to cover their asses.

You believe students over police officers? What's wrong with this world. =(
(Hint: Answer is people like you.)

[Sheeny]

To anyone who has been tazed before, his reaction to the first tazing is completely understandable. It's not fun, it hurts, and it'll get your juices flowing in about .00001 seconds. YOU GET ANGRY. You just don't turn green. It's just enough pain to throw you in a rage. No one is going to get tazed and stand up and be like "Oh, sorry, old chap. I did not mean to interfere with this simple library's daily workings. I'll be on my way. Chipchip cheerio!".

Here's my favorite Cops video, showing a 340lb man getting tazed, standing up and apologizing profusely, just not with the english accent.
He's not a slow learner like Victim here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHgGqmO2Xz4

Do note the passive-aggressive behavior that earned him the taze, for an doubters who still think they have a legal right to ignore police officers.

[theo]

To anyone who has been tazed before, his reaction to the first tazing is completely understandable. It's not fun, it hurts, and it'll get your juices flowing in about .00001 seconds. YOU GET ANGRY. You just don't turn green. It's just enough pain to throw you in a rage. No one is going to get tazed and stand up and be like "Oh, sorry, old chap. I did not mean to interfere with this simple library's daily workings. I'll be on my way. Chipchip cheerio!".

Here's my favorite Cops video, showing a 340lb man getting tazed, standing up and apologizing profusely, just not with the english accent.
He's not a slow learner like Victim here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHgGqmO2Xz4

Do note the passive-aggressive behavior that earned him the taze, for an doubters who still think they have a legal right to ignore police officers.

lol wow that guy was hilarious

"I've been stabbed and I've been shot, but that thing hurt."

[Andarvi]

Did you read any of the eyewitness accounts? The cell phone vid cut in after he had approached the exit. I'm sorry, but im believeing the hundred or so student accounts of what happened over the reports of a few police officers trying to cover their asses.

You believe students over police officers? What's wrong with this world. =(
(Hint: Answer is people like you.)

"students" in this case is not one, two, ten, its a lot more. multiple eyewitness accounts all saying the same thing > a few cops.

either you are a cop or kiss ass. just because you get a badge doesnt give you the right to do what they did. i bet you think the beating of rodney king was in line too, right?

[archibaldcrane]

The problem with this discussion is people talk about whether he "deserved" a tase or not. Deserving an attack doesn't mean it should happen right then and there. The cops aren't there to be giving someone "what's coming to them" - that is not their job. Guy is trespassing and refusing to leave? Do what it takes to make him leave. Need him in handcuffs and he's not cooperating? Tase him and put him in handcuffs if you deem it necessary.

Then pick him up with your three fellow officers and carry him out. Job done.

Screaming about the patriot act and such does make you a moron, and while it could be said you "deserve" a tase, that's not what the police are for. Tasing this guy once he's in handcuffs doesn't help to get him out of the library, as the tape clearly shows. Therefore it's A) Stupid and counterproductive, and B) (since it hurts a handcuffed suspect) possible miscounduct.

Just because the guy deserved it for being stupid doesn't mean it should happen - this isn't the playground.

[Sheeny]

"students" in this case is not one, two, ten, its a lot more. multiple eyewitness accounts all saying the same thing > a few cops.

either you are a cop or kiss ass. just because you get a badge doesnt give you the right to do what they did. i bet you think the beating of rodney king was in line too, right?

I understand that the students outnumber the cops. I still put infinitely more credibility onto a single police officer over any number of young students. I don't know why you find this to be so abnormal.

[Viktor Vaughn]

Ok, I talked to the cop I know, in short he said these police were in the wrong.

1) Since the student was walking out, the cops had no right to touch him and should have just observed him, if something happened, they then are allowed to persue action. So this in its self made them wrong, but continuing..

2) Since the cop deemed it nessisary to act because the man seemed to get roudy after the cop tried to grab him, and then stunned him without first trying verbally to tell him to get on the ground, and secondly physically putting him on the ground, they were in the wrong. Verbally first, then physically, then tasing, in a situation like that.

3) Since the first tase happened; he was already put in handcuffs after the first stun, and even on the low setting with a small burst, it still renderes the person immobile for around 30 seconds. To ask him to stand up so soon, right after being tased and on the ground on his stomach in hand cuffs is ridiculous, so they tased him again for an even longer time. After that he said those cops are just idiots. He said that even though he could talk, he wouldnt have the power to move his legs or arms, so really they were asking him to do something that he couldnt do, but yet kept tasing him.

4) As for the cop threating the people asking for the badge # is another loss, he could of either said "I will give you my # as soon as the situation is under control" or he should have seen that the other 3 cops had it under control and he should have given it our right away. A cops ID number is like their phone #, its a part of you, it doesnt change and it can be easily said at any time.


He said they went about the whole thing wrong, and none of it was right.

What they should of done was let him walk out on his own and should have just observed him. If the man did something to provoke them, they could have asked him to get on the ground, if he resisted, they could of put him on the ground, if he still resisted, they could of tased him. After putting the cuffs on him, they are not to tase him again unless he is physically attacking someone. After cuffing him, and having 4 cops there, they should of just picked him up and draged him out. Tasing him that many times is not the right way.

So, words from an actual cop, that those cops are idiots.

Please have your bud read this thread and explain police duties and citizen rights.

I'll go so far as to say some of what I say may be the case in some states versus others, but police are bound to use a certain amount of restraint before taking it to the level they did.

But I'm sure the same people think that this was ok and the kid deserved agree with fascist ideas such as this:

http://jason.similarselection.org/xt...peech-zone.jpg

Free Speech Cages to prevent riots. It makes sense right? Limit the rights of the citizen to prevent what could possibly happen, versus practicing vigilant restraint to protect the public at large.

[Viktor Vaughn]

"students" in this case is not one, two, ten, its a lot more. multiple eyewitness accounts all saying the same thing > a few cops.

either you are a cop or kiss ass. just because you get a badge doesnt give you the right to do what they did. i bet you think the beating of rodney king was in line too, right?

I understand that the students outnumber the cops. I still put infinitely more credibility onto a single police officer over any number of young students. I don't know why you find this to be so abnormal.

Ya the LAPD has such a credible track record. And most police have college educations.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...uComeAgain.jpg

[Zalius]

he had to get his stuff and they told him to stop trying to hide and just leave. now, i dont know about you, but id be damned if some faggot rentacop was going to tell me im trying to hide from them while im obeying them.

Next, how exactly do you credit the word of an officer who states that they'll taze a student asking for their badge number and name?

[archibaldcrane]

If the billboards around here are to be believed, LAPD officers start off making $52k per year.

Not a bad chunk of change. I did think that an undergrad degree was required though - I may be totally wrong.

[Andarvi]

"students" in this case is not one, two, ten, its a lot more. multiple eyewitness accounts all saying the same thing > a few cops.

either you are a cop or kiss ass. just because you get a badge doesnt give you the right to do what they did. i bet you think the beating of rodney king was in line too, right?

I understand that the students outnumber the cops. I still put infinitely more credibility onto a single police officer over any number of young students. I don't know why you find this to be so abnormal.

young students? i dont know what your college is like, was like, will be like, but at a university library you have freshman through grad students studying. thats ages 18-22+. at what age do they become credible sources? these arent preschoolers. police officers are not infallible.

[Viktor Vaughn]

"students" in this case is not one, two, ten, its a lot more. multiple eyewitness accounts all saying the same thing > a few cops.

either you are a cop or kiss ass. just because you get a badge doesnt give you the right to do what they did. i bet you think the beating of rodney king was in line too, right?

I understand that the students outnumber the cops. I still put infinitely more credibility onto a single police officer over any number of young students. I don't know why you find this to be so abnormal.

young students? i dont know what your college is like, was like, will be like, but at a university library you have freshman through grad students studying. thats ages 18-22+. at what age do they become credible sources? these arent preschoolers. police officers are not infallible.

Apparently by this logic the higher you are on the government chain the more believable you are.

HAY MR FOLEY HOW'S THEM TEENAGE BOYS? OH YOU DIDN'T DO IT? K. CU L8R.

Irresponsible. Period.

[Endo]

In Portland, Oregon, 71-year-old Eunice Crowder sued the City of Portland for use of
excessive force. Portland police officers had entered Ms. Crowder’s yard with a permit to
remove debris. Ms. Crowder, who was blind, asked the officers to read the permit to her. When
the officers refused, she followed them into her yard. Subsequently, an officer struck her in the
face, which caused her glass eye to fall out. After she fell to the ground, police pushed her face
into the dirt and shocked her twice in the back with a Taser. Ms. Crowder’s claims against the
city were later settled for $145,000.

I started researching the use of force continuum and Tasers in particular and have not really been able to find a specific one to compare to this situation. Tasers in general seem to be on every ALCU shit list from here to HI and some departments are taking them out of use. If UCLA use of force continuum has TASER right with bean bags, wooden bullets, and pepper spray then yes the cops were wrong (I think we all agree the multiple tasing was ridiculous, its more the initial tase that I am commenting on).

Here is a basic use of force continuum for security guards which is what these guys were I think?

Level One

Officer Presence. The mere presence of a highly visible uniform security officer or marked vehicle is often enough to stop a crime in progress or prevent future crime. Included in officer presence are standing, walking, running, and use of vehicle lights, horn, or speaker. Without saying a word, an alert officer can deter crime or direct criminals away from a property by use of body language and gestures. At this level gestures should be non-threatening and professional.
Level Two

Verbal Communication. Used in combination with a visible presence, the use of the voice can usually achieve the desired results. Words can be whispered, used normally, or shouted to be effective. The content of the message is as important as your demeanor. It’s always best to start out calm but firm and non-threatening. Choice of words and intensity can be increased as necessary or used in short commands in serious situations. The right combination of words in combination with officer presence can de-escalate a tense situation and prevent the need for a physical altercation. Training and experience improves the ability of a security officer to communicate effectively with everyone including the police.
Level Three

Control Holds & Restraints. Certain situations may arise where words alone does not reduce the aggression. Sometimes security guards and security officers will need to get involved physically. At this level, minimal force would involve the use of bare hands to guide, hold, and restrain. This does not include offensive moves such as punching, tackling, and choking. Pain compliance holds could apply here, but only after ordinary holds fail to control an aggressive suspect.

A baton or PR-24 can only be used at this level as a self-defense mechanism to block blows or temporarily restrain a suspect. Handcuffs can be used a restraint devise only if the security officer has been trained to do so. Not every suspect needs to be handcuffed. They should only be used on a person who exhibits aggression, poses a real threat or where flight is a real possibility. Handcuffs should not be applied too tightly and should be double-locked when safe to do so. Once a suspect is handcuffed the security officer is responsible to see that they don’t trip or fall. It is also important not to pile on top or place the handcuffed suspect face down on the ground to avoid "positional asphyxiation". Hog-ties should not be used by security officers.
Level Four

Chemical Agents. Sometimes when the suspect is violent or threatening, more extreme, but non-deadly measures must be used in defense to bring the suspect under control or affect an arrest. Before moving to level four, it is assumed that other less physical measures had been tried or was deemed inappropriate. When used by surprise, pepper spray and tear gas is an excellent distraction, allowing the security officer time to get away, call the police, or subdue the suspect. Contrary to media advertising, pepper spray does not have stopping power or cause paralysis. An assailant can still grab you, punch you, stab you, or shoot you and will definitely be angrier after being sprayed. Also, tear gas may not be effective on the insane, addicts, intoxicated or hysterical persons. See my web page on Self-Defense: Tear Gases.

Tear gases (CN, CS, OC) can be hand-held, hand-thrown, or propelled. Security officer’s usually only get involved with hand-held canisters containing pepper spray. Pepper spray should not be used to protect property or to enforce business rules. Remember it's a defensive weapon. Pepper sprays need to be directed in the suspect’s face for maximum result and not sprayed wildly at groups of people. Even though considered non-deadly, chemical sprays can cause severe reaction and even death to a suspect with medical or allergic conditions. Also, pepper sprays have a blinding effect and care must be used that spray victims do not fall down stairs or walk into traffic or operate motor vehicles.
Level Five

Temporary Incapacitation. To use force under level five means that the situation was so extreme, violent, and immediate that it was necessary to temporarily incapacitate a suspect prior to arrival of the police. This includes the use of all methods of non-deadly force beginning with the empty hand up through and including impact tools. At level five, properly used defensive and offensive moves are allowed under the right circumstances. Choke holds and carotid neck holds can be used, but at great risk. Although still taught at many police academies, neck compressions are very risky and used only in extreme situations. Baton blows to the suspect’s head or throat can be deadly and inconsistent with professional training standards. Temporary incapacitation is used to stop a suspect from injuring you or others long enough to handcuff and restrain them. Baton blows to soft tissue and certain joint areas are all consistent with professional security training standards and POST.

Stun guns are part of level five, but should not be used by security officers except on special posts and only by those authorized and trained in the use and effects of the device. Stun guns are held-held devices and some like the Air-Taser propel charged darts on leads at a suspect.

It goes on into use of deadly force.

This clearly states that (if trained) the use of stun guns are to be used AFTER being police presence, hand cuffing, and baton. How would this story be if they had used the baton instead of a stun gun?

[HAcoreRD]

if that kid half a brain, he'd sue the police/state until his college and car is paid off.

[Sekkite]

"students" in this case is not one, two, ten, its a lot more. multiple eyewitness accounts all saying the same thing > a few cops.

either you are a cop or kiss ass. just because you get a badge doesnt give you the right to do what they did. i bet you think the beating of rodney king was in line too, right?

I understand that the students outnumber the cops. I still put infinitely more credibility onto a single police officer over any number of young students. I don't know why you find this to be so abnormal.

I personally find that abnormal cause the cops are human just like anyone else. They don't want to get in trouble, they don't want to loose their jobs, they don't want a lawsuit. Saying a statement that'd be in your best interests, even if it is stretching the truth or a plain lie, is not above a police officer any more then it is above a college student.