Is it just me?

[Fng]

Go visit the Titan / NIN forums on KI.

You and Ark33 should team up. You will be the ultimate force ever.

[Seditedi]

point system + main job rule = win

Still don't like point system, but the main job rule helps alot, as well as prioritizing some drops.... with job priority/main job, you can keep away those loot whores that just think they can get everything just because they have more points than anyone else.. lol.

[Aodh]

"I just dinged 75 and got into some LS, GIMMIE THINGS!"

The ability to use is not the same as the right to obtain. People earn the right to obtain through the contributions to the linkshell as well as the potential contribution from having that item.

[Ishido]

Reward people for coming to camps as much as they can. If it's done by job alone then if you have a job like NIN that comes to every event, they're not going to get anything from kings (except that D. Ring that people will complain about because it didn't go to a PLD, and only drops once a year). I prefer an "I point, you lot" system because if you have a leader that attends almost every camp you can see who actually deserve said item.

That being said, any system can be corrupt.

Also, need isn't a great word to use in any situation about most gear being discussed here.

[Luke]

Break what to me? I understand that, but that's my whole argument. The way that things work now is that the people who have played consistantly for the past two years get all the items, while the newer players are left on a 2-year waiting list before they get anything worthwile.

....

/rant off

How can you be mad when people who have put in more time/effort are getting things before you, no matter what system?

I don't understand how some people think they deserve certain items more than other people based solely on which job they leveled up first, especially when they put in less effort/time towards getting it.

An example from my old LS which used divine choice:

A beastmaster was leveling up ranger with gilsellers while 6 or 7 of my LS were camping Nidhogg @3AM vs 100+ JP. That BST was the only one on who could equip E.body if it were to drop (everyone else had it), yet she didn't come to help camp, despite saying she wanted E.body before. So we get Nidhogg, and within minutes she shows up in Dragon's Aery, leaving her party w/ RMT only AFTER we claimed it. It wasn't worth her time to help camp, but she sure came running with her hands open after we claimed it. That's when I realized "for the good of the LS" is just a crock of shit, I even told my LS leader that if E.body dropped, that BST wasn't walking out with it lol. The level 37 wars that were present put in way more effort than that BST and the war couldn't even equip it. Dalm dropped though -.-

[Aodh]

Ok, I love this topic because there is no right or wrong so you can actually discuss the benefits and disadvantages on a very level playing field.

Scenario:
On Sunday our linkshell killed Tiamat and we got Gaiters. On Wednesday we killed Tiamat again and got a second pair. We hold all tradable items till Wednesday nights.

Point system:
I'm #5 in points with the people above me mainly melee jobs. I could have at least one of the two pairs of gaiters if I chose. I decided not to, saved my points, and the next day spend some on a Ridill.

Divine Choice:
Given that I know a lot about pulling Dynamis and the +movement would actually help me pull for the shell, and I'm active for events, I probably would have been assigned one of the pairs of gaiters. Then the next day a Ridill would have gone to someone else because no one could justify giving someone Gaiters one day, and Ridill the next.

My conclusion:
Points allowed me to get the item I actually wanted where a divine choice system would have left me with an item I didn't really want because someone else decided the value of the item to me.

Edit: To Luke's point, we don't take any more bids on items after the NM pops for the exact reason that if someone didn't put in the effort to help camp against the RMT/Other LSs than they can't bid on anything it drops. But we still award points for them coming out to help kill.

[Viena]

Am i the only person who thinks a mage(usually member since LS birth)
that lots a ridill or ebody and has no melee job leveled is wrong? Lotting over wars with full merits in LS already because they have most points in shell.

Are you from Midgard? If so, I can guess who you are speaking about.

[layoneil]

Then the next day a Ridill would have gone to someone else because no one could justify giving someone Gaiters one day, and Ridill the next.

because your leaders are stupid?

you can't talk to them and turn down Gaiters?

you can't ask them if taking Gaiters changes your position on other things?

[Aodh]

Then the next day a Ridill would have gone to someone else because no one could justify giving someone Gaiters one day, and Ridill the next.

because your leaders are stupid?

you can't talk to them and turn down Gaiters?

you can't ask them if taking Gaiters changes your position on other things?

Replace gaiters with A.Body which dropped earlier in the afternoon from Aspid if you want or just consider Gaiters to be EX. In a system where you have no choice in the items you get why would you turn down an item you can use, make use of and is good?

Or leave it as Gaiters, like I said they are something good, rare and I would use them to benifit the LS, and they were assigned to me. I wouldn't have any good reason not to take them at that time. Then afterwards Ridill drops, in the 5 min time the leaders are trying to choose who should get it while at the same time Me and maybe someone else who got another rare item are saying they'll return things to lot on the Ridill etc. I see that as nothing but confusion and disappointment.

Use my scenario if you want to extend your example.

[dragoness]

Am i the only person who thinks a mage(usually member since LS birth)
that lots a ridill or ebody and has no melee job leveled is wrong? Lotting over wars with full merits in LS already because they have most points in shell.

Are you from Midgard? If so, I can guess who you are speaking about.

I think he's on a different server Vie, but I think I do know who YOU are talking about

[Fng]

@ Aodh

I would think most leaders that do a divine distribution know before the camp who is getting assigned which drop.

[layoneil]

In a system where you have no choice in the items you get why would you turn down an item you can use, make use of and is good?

who said you have no choice and who said you have to choose in the first place?

who decided that if you have this item (Dalmatica) you can't get this other item (Ridill)?

why would those two items be put on the same scale?

even if you put some items on the same scale (say A E M Body). why can't someone choose one? why can't someone say "well the one i really want is E Body, even if A Body drops today at Aspid, someone else can get it, all i want is the next E Body that drops."

any time items are put on the same scale, people should have that choice.

and most items should not be on the same scale in the first place. since the work required to get them are usually unrelated.

Then afterwards Ridill drops, in the 5 min time the leaders are trying to choose who should get it while at the same time Me and maybe someone else who got another rare item are saying they'll return things to lot on the Ridill etc.

if they do that your leaders are still stupid.

who's great idea was it to make critical decisions in 5 minutes when you can make it in 5 weeks.

make a list of everything really Rare and assign who should get what before it drops. update the list when the need arises. when it actually drops, go down the list from top to bottom depending on who's actually there.

[Kurohyou]

Then the next day a Ridill would have gone to someone else because no one could justify giving someone Gaiters one day, and Ridill the next.

because your leaders are stupid?

you can't talk to them and turn down Gaiters?

you can't ask them if taking Gaiters changes your position on other things?

No kidding, if my LS gave me gaiters (which I don't need nor care to have), I would inform them that they should give them to someone else. If they still give it to me, I would promptly sell them and buy some new shit for my WAR.

[Aodh]

who's great idea was it to make critical decisions in 5 minutes when you can make it in 5 weeks.

make a list of everything really Rare and assign who should get what before it drops. update the list when the need arises. when it actually drops, go down the list from top to bottom depending on who's actually there.

Just to clarify, make a list of names (From the 70ish members we have) for the 30-50ish R/Ex items which drop from HNM and post it somewhere to keep current? Still wouldn't change the fact that if someone were to pass up one really rare item it wouldn't move them up on the item they really want.

if they do that your leaders are still stupid.

We don't have to worry about that because we use a point system. It's the members who get to decide how important things are to them and bid the points they've earned accordingly.

[layoneil]

Just to clarify, make a list of names (From the 70ish members we have) for the 30-50ish R/Ex items which drop from HNM and post it somewhere to keep current?

not everyone will have every job for every item. the first time to make the list it might be difficult, but keeping it updated isn't that hard (it's a lot easier than maintaining a point system).

Still wouldn't change the fact that if someone were to pass up one really rare item it wouldn't move them up on the item they really want.

it shouldn't.

because we use a point system. It's the members who get to decide how important things are to them and bid the points they've earned accordingly.

you are simply failing to realize that the two are not related.

[DeadLegend]

if they do that your leaders are still stupid.

who's great idea was it to make critical decisions in 5 minutes when you can make it in 5 weeks.

make a list of everything really Rare and assign who should get what before it drops. update the list when the need arises. when it actually drops, go down the list from top to bottom depending on who's actually there.

I like you.
Come over to my house and fuck my sister.

Leaders who don't take the time to make simple plans for obvious occurrences shouldn't be leading anything.

[Sonomaa]

if they do that your leaders are still stupid.

who's great idea was it to make critical decisions in 5 minutes when you can make it in 5 weeks.

make a list of everything really Rare and assign who should get what before it drops. update the list when the need arises. when it actually drops, go down the list from top to bottom depending on who's actually there.

I like you.
Come over to my house and fuck my sister.

Leaders who don't take the time to make simple plans for obvious occurrences shouldn't be leading anything.

I remember doing our list of drops, I think it took a month to go over the entire thing, but we made fair and just choices based on activity, length of time in the shell, and many other factors, in the end choices were made that people believed in and trusted. When your people trust the leaders, and the leaders do good for the people, its a winwin situation for everybody.

(no you cant have sendoh, he is under contract with BG)

[Denchi]

Yeah... well.... any system can work if everyone adheres to it. But then you get shit like whm's winning ridill's, and I just don't think that's fair, and that's what I'm arguing.

My discrepency lies in the fact that one's "effort" and "dedication" could just be them having nothing better to do during the day IRL. So they would have been online or playing a different game either way. Compared to the person who has a hectic IRL schedule and busts his ass to make it to Sea or Sky 3 or 4 times a month. Who's more deserving? Maybe it's true that the person who plays 24/7 should get the e.body over someone else who doesn't come as often, but when that same person with the most "points" starts getting shit he doesn't need over someone in the LS busting his ass who DOES need it, that gets annoying, and that's where a point system fails.

Make the people in your LS happy, don't feed the greedy bastards who feel justified because they have "the most points."