SE task force looking for feedback

[Khamsin]

my reasoning behind wanting them to come here is they do it on our terms, they are willing to listen, so they can get an earful of sendoh letting them know exactly whats wrong, an advanced xavier speech about perils, an indepth analysis by rkenshin, a picture so they can relate to the subject by lordwafik

they can get a combined community of end game professionals telling them what would make them want to stay, relating their experiences of why parts of their linkshells quit for WoW, tell them what the fuck is wrong and how we know how to fix it

Be sure to give them your card, while you're at it:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g2...iness_card.gif

[Not Kuno]

Rofl

[mikazuki]

maybe the community relations people are too busy taking suggestions and so on from japanese end-game players. does any japanese speaking person know if the jp equivalent of BG is just as frustrated at not being able to talk to SE about what has gone wrong?
as a 'slightly' bitter EU player i wouldn't be surprised if SE main office had almost forgotten they have english speaking players.

[Gwynplaine]

maybe the community relations people are too busy taking suggestions and so on from japanese end-game players. does any japanese speaking person know if the jp equivalent of BG is just as frustrated at not being able to talk to SE about what has gone wrong?
as a 'slightly' bitter EU player i wouldn't be surprised if SE main office had almost forgotten they have english speaking players.

Thanks for the segue. A JP site recently had an interview with the STU. Here is a translation done by Majhone on KI.

FFXI Gameinside (shown, Inside): How large is the special task force?

Management team: The actual number of people is confidential, but the special task force is a full time team separate from the game master (GM) team.

Inside: In regards to RMT and the tools they use, and how far they have gone to keep using them, how far can the special task force go to stop RMT. What are their limits?

Management team: Using 3rd party programs is against the EULA, however, the special task force team cannot prevent people from downloading 3rd party programs. They cannot deal with activity that goes on outside the game. However, they have developed new examination methods to acquire evidence that an account is indeed participating in RMT behavior or using 3rd party tools. As far as the methods used, they are confidential. Please observe the information from previous news.

Inside: RMT is the biggest problem right now, but what about the people who buy gil? When your investigations find people who buy gil, what are the penalties? Is it a solid plan? Or is case by case?

Management team: As far as what the usual penalties are, anywhere from a warning to banning the account, it depends on the seriousness of the offense. The penalties are judged according to the accounts’ past record of offenses. For penalty information, please refer to the GM policy changes which will be release very soon.

Inside: The targets are mostly the players that purchase large quantities of gil; but when someone buys even a small amount, do you think the possibility of buying more becomes higher? For example, what if RMT traded the player very small amounts of gil over and over? Can you verify the transactions if they use that method?

Management team: In regards to those players who might use that method, please remember the previous answer. The methods of investigation are constantly changing and improving. The range of the investigation is soft and can be made to fit our needs. We continue with warnings when we are able to verify the sale of virtual goods, but when it comes to small amounts of gil, the amount of log entries increases and the amount of time it takes to examine those logs also goes up. The process is ongoing but the precision in the investigations and the speed in decisions is constantly improving.

Inside: In contrast, do you think there are players who are used to selling small amounts of gil to RMT? Would players of this type be hard to verify? What has the investigation done in regards to this?

Management Team: For those people that you mention, weather individual or if they are an organization, there is considerable investigation in this area right now. For those that are selling gil to RMT and not buying it, it is another dimension of our investigation. The monopolization of certain NM’s by players and by RMT has also caused much frustration and anxiety in the FFXI community. The task force is coordinating with GM’s during calls where speed is important and examinations are done.

Inside: At the same time, people using 3rd party tools are being handled. The results are very apparent. The RMT atmosphere and cheating isn’t seen as much anymore. However, there are times when players see a group of people at a hunting ground with all very similar names in great numbers. As far as GMs watching these types of users, it is not their job and would be more for the special talk force to monitor?

Management team: This is an area for both GM’s and the special task force. They examine the corresponding account information in regards to the different characters’ cooperation. However, without evidence in the game, nothing can be done. In order to have an effect, the players must engage in an activity against the terms of service.

Once the special task force investigates the logs and other information, the GM team will be able to enforce those players to the maximum. 24-hour bans have worked well in at at the same time. By combining the power of both teams (GM and Task force) we are making a big difference.

However, as far as “name is the same” or “you don’t speak the same language as me,” that is never a time when a player is banned without a lot more evidence than that. More sufficient information needs to be gathered before they can judge players for a crime or code offense.

Edited in:
Inside: In regards to the people selling the gil, you said it is currently hard to handle legally; especially when it comes to people operating in foreign countries. How do you handle this problem?

(I have no idea how to fix this..)
Management Team:
Management team: Assuming, that the RMT sight (the web sight) was in this country of the actual world throat, inside the game of ・補"＜ｂ痺岩#・ヵ・＜リモ帥ｌ痺・XI with relationship completely it is impossible to be active RMT. As touched even in reply of the front coming out, the 鐔・dirt 測, basis of coping to the last being to become violation to game codes, in such sense it is where of the actual world, is not important for us.
(My take? They are saying that outside the game, they don’t really care. They are only concerned with what goes on within the game. That is most important)

Inside: There are times when you ask players for information regarding RMT activities. In the future, do you plan to come up with new methods for gathering information aside from players that inform GMs of suspicious activity?

Management Team: A considerable amount of information is gathered by the task force regarding reported activities. There are times when it is necessary to ask a player for more detailed information during an investigation for clarity and accuracy of evidence.

GM’s gather and summarize their calls in a uniform, boring fashion from private mail and other things. They concentrate on taking care of the call quickly and get information recorded. They are not always able to convey every detail of an event accurately. Because of this, on some occasions it is important to ask players about an event to make the investigation more accurate.

This is only part of the interview that has been translated so far. Is it just me or does one of the later paragraphs seem to imply that their solution to gilsellers "monopolising" has been to ban for 24hours? In practice that would seem to fit in with what I've witnessed in passed periods of banning. Usually the day or so after certain gilsellers were gone only to be back soon after.

Edit: Put in the rest of the translation.

[BRP]

For those that are selling gil to RMT and not buying it, it is another dimension of our investigation. The monopolization of certain NM’s by players and by RMT has also caused much frustration and anxiety in the FFXI community. The task force is coordinating with GM’s during calls where speed is important and examinations are done.

Most important part of the interview... I really wish they talked more about this. You said not the whole thing was translated?

[Gwynplaine]

Yeah that is most of it, looks like theres 3 more questions untranslated. Heres the original japanese interview:
https://ff11.gameinside.info/news/?sact ... a&news=212

GameInside forums are also hosting questions to SE from japanese players if anyones interested in what the jp playerbase may be asking.

[mikazuki]

However, as far as “name is the same” or “you don’t speak the same language as me,” that is never a time when a player is banned without a lot more evidence than that. More sufficient information needs to be gathered before they can judge players for a crime or code offense.

this is why the rmt are running around so freely, don't SE know that we don't mind at all if they are totally fascist about banning people on what players would describe as beyond reasonable doubt? the player base is just going to applaud SE if they ban afghgoaife and his 5 blm friends, because SE can't be prosecuted for banning accounts, the value of guilt should be what players think is justified.
get out the goddamn rubber bullets (lolnon-lethal) and start banning with extreme prejudice.

edit: dissociating gwynplaine from the quote since it's the statement of STF.

[anhero]

that interview is just pathetic. typical noninformation being handed out. the only comprehendable reply they gave...

However, as far as “name is the same” or “you don’t speak the same language as me,” that is never a time when a player is banned without a lot more evidence than that. More sufficient information needs to be gathered before they can judge players for a crime or code offense.

...pretty much states they'll continue to let blatantly obvious rmt run around freely, while only banning the less agressive background of rmt (if even that). when the fuck will they realize that it's the farmers that cause the problems?

[Plow]

However, as far as “name is the same” or “you don’t speak the same language as me,” that is never a time when a player is banned without a lot more evidence than that. More sufficient information needs to be gathered before they can judge players for a crime or code offense.

this is why the rmt are running around so freely, don't SE know that we don't mind at all if they are totally fascist about banning people on what players would describe as beyond reasonable doubt? the player base is just going to applaud SE if they ban afghgoaife and his 5 blm friends, because SE can't be prosecuted for banning accounts, the value of guilt should be what players think is justified.
get out the goddamn rubber bullets (lolnon-lethal) and start banning with extreme prejudice.

edit: dissociating gwynplaine from the quote since it's the statement of STF.

you really can't go around banning anyone whose name is the same or happens to not speak english...

I know it's different but in WoW my guild had many members with "gorr" at the end of their name, and the guild name was The Gorrs, people actually do that kind of thing.

[Lithiani]

Yeah yeah fine, but the 18 character alliance that levelled all day, every day, with gimp gear and now sits 24/7 in Ullis room? They should have been banned within 72 hours of starting their eternal Ulli camp.

They are still there 2 months after I started reporting them.

Bansticks. Now.

[Plow]

they just need to get over the whole name and doing wierd random shit stuff, and say look a human simply cannot actively play 24 hours a day, if you are we will watch you closely (AND ACTUALLY DO IT) and be quick to get rid of you if it becomes apparent you are not a legitimate player

[Lordender]

IMO they can't fight rmt well enough if they don't log into the game and start seeing it for themselves without these silly tools they may or may not have developed. I don't know what to think about it but I havent seen any farmers disappearing, infact they have increased their numbers by 3-4 new groups a week the past 2 months on my server.

[Okuza]

I really think it's unfortunate that the entire issue is focused more on the "RMT" side of things rather than on the features of the game that make it so easy for those with RMT-like inclinations to effectively monopolize and area to the exclusion of shall we say, players with a real life.

If RMT couldn't put a stranglehold on any NM and you could actually schedule a time for your shell event in sky or on kings would RMT even remotely bother you? Chances are, you wouldn't care. You could play the game and have fun. RMT could try to find a market and likely scrape up a few people for it, but most folks could actually do things in game themselves without having to set asside a 24H block of time to camp an NM.

It's not just Ulili -- that's a recent developement. What if you want a replacement Bomb-Core? How about an O.Kote? Amemet skin? The way to get those in FFXI is to pay one of the 24x7 (likely RMT) campers. Camping yourself is a waste of time because of the RMT monopoly. Make monopoly impossible via a different spawn method and suddenly the need to spend $$ for gil is only a minute fraction of what it once was.

[anhero]

I really think it's unfortunate that the entire issue is focused more on the "RMT" side of things rather than on the features of the game that make it so easy for those with RMT-like inclinations to effectively monopolize and area to the exclusion of shall we say, players with a real life.

If RMT couldn't put a stranglehold on any NM and you could actually schedule a time for your shell event in sky or on kings would RMT even remotely bother you? Chances are, you wouldn't care. You could play the game and have fun. RMT could try to find a market and likely scrape up a few people for it, but most folks could actually do things in game themselves without having to set asside a 24H block of time to camp an NM.

It's not just Ulili -- that's a recent developement. What if you want a replacement Bomb-Core? How about an O.Kote? Amemet skin? The way to get those in FFXI is to pay one of the 24x7 (likely RMT) campers. Camping yourself is a waste of time because of the RMT monopoly. Make monopoly impossible via a different spawn method and suddenly the need to spend $$ for gil is only a minute fraction of what it once was.

profit$$$$$$$$? no? se no like.

[Silmarwen]

There will always be more RMT groups leveling to replace any that are *coughbannedcough* as long as there is a demand for gil. If people do not stop buying gil, this problem will not go away despite any efforts by SE or regular players. I feel like that Smokey-the-Bear commercial..."Only YOU can stop RMT!"

Changing game mechanics will only give cause for the RMT to rethink their gil making tactics imo.

[Palin@Ramuh]

I couldn't disagree more.


The system is fine and it functions fine when RMT isn't in the equation. Your solution is the equivelent of communism. Give everyone everything. Waaaaaaaah I can't get a Dalmatica. Let's make A Body drop from KS99. No, its supposed to be rare and not everyone is supposed to have one.

Sky functioned perfectly well before RMT monopolized Ulli. Change the pop? Have it pop like Ollie? RMT will monopolize the waters. You can't change the system and "fix" it, unless you radically change the system at which point you lose actually lose the appeal. There are lots of people that still camp kings just to cockblock other linkshells.




Also as to people stopping buyying gil, it will never happen. RMT will just floor prices to encourage people to buy it.

Even if RMT levels new people to replace. Ban those accounts and keep banning them till they get sick of shelling out money for accounts and monthly fees.

[Silmarwen]

I couldn't disagree more.


The system is fine and it functions fine when RMT isn't in the equation. Your solution is the equivelent of communism. Give everyone everything. Waaaaaaaah I can't get a Dalmatica. Let's make A Body drop from KS99. No, its supposed to be rare and not everyone is supposed to have one.

Sky functioned perfectly well before RMT monopolized Ulli. Change the pop? Have it pop like Ollie? RMT will monopolize the waters. You can't change the system and "fix" it, unless you radically change the system at which point you lose actually lose the appeal. There are lots of people that still camp kings just to cockblock other linkshells.




Also as to people stopping buyying gil, it will never happen. RMT will just floor prices to encourage people to buy it.

Even if RMT levels new people to replace. Ban those accounts and keep banning them till they get sick of shelling out money for accounts and monthly fees.

Perhaps you misunderstood my statement. I don't think changing the mechanics of the game (ie how it works now, or prior to now) will stop RMT, it will just make it so they will have to adjust the way they currently make gil.

Secondly, it would stand to reason that if you know you have a price at which you would "sell-out" and crack and buy gil, wth would you keep tabs on the currently selling price to begin with? Be strong ffs.

SE could wipe out the current wave of RMT, but if ppl still place orders for gil and there is profit to be made from, there will be more RMT and in larger droves to insure no halt in "gil-flow" Standing by my statement, sorry.

[Ayaz]

Banning RMT is a fantastic and worthwhile route to go.

The companies who employ the players who are participating in RMT must then pay their employees to level up new characters. While these characters are leveling no gil is being made/farmed/earned to sell. If you ban them en masse over and over to create an eventual loss instead of a profit because of new characters being leveled, ill bet you the RMT would stop fucking with FFXI and move on to other MMOs.

[BRP]

In my opinion, you'd have to hit both sides hard and fast, and constantly if you wanted to kill off 80-90% of RMT. Not just farmers. Not just sites. Kill the demand, supply piles up(could even create a christmas effect). Kill the supply, demand go ups(normal players begin to sell gil). Kill both the suppliers(farmers) and the demanders(sites buying from farmers), then you simply kill the market until it tries to rebuild itself.

One step further, is to go on Ebay, and do a clean sweep. Look at stats/race/gear/ect and server, then search that server for that very same build or even ask players for assistance, I mean, I would personally love to report these account selling hypocrits. One final nail in the coffin in RMT would be to allow players to take back their account at anytime if they can put in their name, one-time billing address, one-time credit card, and the original activation code. That way, people can sell accounts on Ebay, and get them back a day later. How fucking awesome would that be?

Farmers will continue to buy new accounts.... but this only means more $ for SE. I mean, how isn't that awesome for them? I can't get it through my mind why they don't make money off these guys. Then for some extra cash(as in new players and old ones) and morale, they could hang a huge ass sign on their website on their site saying "Mission Accomplished!", and Sage Sundi can land an aircraft in Al Zahbi, jump out and say, "I dunno what we just did, where am I?".

[Kerberoz]

One final nail in the coffin in RMT would be to allow players to take back their account at anytime if they can put in their name, one-time billing address, one-time credit card, and the original activation code. That way, people can sell accounts on Ebay, and get them back a day later. How fucking awesome would that be?

Love that idea. If you could answer all the original account details perfectly, you'd immediately be logged into the account and prompted to change password. Maybe cap it at 2-3 times per account though. This would make people more wary of buying accounts and also offer some protection against intentional theft...