Shellra V question~

[Delekii]

Martyr and ProV are useless, ShellV and Devotion only.

[Lockecole]

Martyr and ProV are useless, ShellV and Devotion only.

I wouldnt call Martyr useless. I just thought that the chance that Martyr might come in handy in an off chance is better than 1 point of MDB. Possibly not, I've seen it used where it helped keep someone alive, but its definately situational, whereas 1MDB is useful 99% of the time.

[Ashira]

Martyr would be an emergency style cure only, and I don't foresee it being used in the way Devotion is, because if you're using Martyr you probably don't have the MP to max HP gear up and then Cure yourself. If you did, then.. just.. cast.. Cure on the target. >.>

[Kainen]

3 devotion, 2 shellra V, 1 martyr seems plausible. I think martyr being a job ability, therefore instant, is a decent emergency cure.

[Lyramion]

I did...

3/3 devotion - HP Gear setup as Elv - Hello there 380 MP Devotions
2/3 Shellra 5 - 3/3 be nice but not sacrificing Martyr
1/3 Martyr - Often using it after my PTs RDM announced his Convert. The HP healing is almost instant and lowers the chance of convert accidents on AOE HNM. Also Martyr is good of running ppl since you can mash it while chasing and dont have to fear any spell interruption

[mikazuki]

what about group 1 merits for whm, how attractive is the +2MDB on barspell merits? does it work for all elements or only the one of the particular barspell?
or do we live in a perfect world where tanks have elemental defense gear for the situations where barspell is really 'necessary' or is the utility of barspell merits high enough to be worthwhile for more general use.

i think cure cast time-% is pretty essential, then regen merits with af2 body can stack to 28hp/tick? but that's with 5xregen.

let's just ignore divine seal/banish merits >.>

[Lyramion]

Was a topic on Regen VS Barspell things not too long ago but to cut it short:

- the MDB only works for the corresponding element
- the MDB is mighty sexy
- some ppl try hard to argue Regen potency is worth it, so let them be

[Delekii]

regen at endgame is useful, but the problem is that on most fights the whms are responsible for the tanks, and the tanks need to be capped as often as possible. Because of that, the extra regen potency is almost never realised.

[mikazuki]

i'm convinced! if it was 3hp/tick for each regen merit, it would be a harder choice, but given what you can do with barspell+ items and merits, it looks far more satisfying.

[Force-Attuned Krogoth]

I've got white mage at 75. I've done my share of HNM activities in froofy clothes. Will someone explain to me why shaving 0.6 seconds off the time it takes the HP to get to the target, without decreasing the actual cast time (where you can't start another spell) or the recast time (where you can't cast Cure V again) is so important that it must be done to the exclusion of everythign else? In my experience, if that half-second means the difference between life and death, then you're going to be back where you started from before you can start another cure.

[Tirrock]

I never was a fan of cure cast time merits either. I usually did what I could to antipate damage and start casting then. (Monster starts using TP move that I know will hit tank...begin casting before damage is taken.) Granted, I never got around to actually meriting anything on WHM. I use(d) SMN much more often.

I used to laugh at barspell merits until I knew somebody that uses them on taimat. Now I get to laugh at protectra V instead.

[Eldelphia]

I have capped barspell merits, capped cure casting timer, capped Shellra V, 2 in devotion and 1 in pro V mostly cos it looks pretty (/shallow) and has an associated 'oooh shiny' factor from your party. Seriously considering dropping Pro V

I capped Shellra V because I'm a barspell junky (have cleric's pants too)and they also add to your MDB. I figure it all adds up and it certainly seems to be the case. However I think it would be fairly hard to quantify Shellra V (basic) against Shellra V (capped). I'm sure someone with better understanding of the stats in this game could tell you how it works when a magical attack was thrown at you.

Have to say though, my parties take less magical damage and resist more (barspells) and that can only be a good thing.

As for cure casting timer, well I had an incredibly obvious demonstration of this in Dynamis. Hard to replicate exactly obviously but it was notable when Cure Casting timer hit the 3+ mark and ridiculously obvious when capped. The main benefit of it tho is realised when you stack with cure clogs and then you're at -35% cure casting time.

And hell, I like my far more efficient cures landing before the rdm's... /grin.

Seriously cure casting timer and my haste gear are the things I miss the most when not 75WHM.

[Alleya]

Martyr is good because it's instant and relatively hate free. It does a few hundred more than cure 4 for no mp cost whatsoever, and you don't have to worry about casting time. So yes, I'd say it's worth it.

[Eddie]

I remember the old days when people who we're higher level knew more about the game than lower level.

I've met level 15 people with no sub that were more knowledgeable that people I meritted with.

Though, I think I had more fun in the game when no one knew what the hell was going on.

[Mifaco]

Martyr is good because it's instant and relatively hate free. It does a few hundred more than cure 4 for no mp cost whatsoever, and you don't have to worry about casting time. So yes, I'd say it's worth it.

Martyr sucks because it's 20:00 recast, fuck that. I'd much rather have a pretty animation from Protect V than wait 20:00 for a MP-free Cure V.

My WHM Group2 merits: Devotion 3, ProV 1, ShellV2

[Force-Attuned Krogoth]

And hell, I like my far more efficient cures landing before the rdm's... /grin.

I hear this alot from whms. But calling it efficient when you and the rdms are overlapping doesn't make sense. I'm not saying that -cast time isn't noticeable. Your cures recover HP earlier. But is that really getting you anything? In the example you cited, it makes no difference who gets their cure off first, both of them still happen.

There's a big difference between "I see it!" and "it helps me do my job."

[Jeryhn]

Martyr sucks because it's 20:00 recast, fuck that. I'd much rather have a pretty animation from Protect V than wait 20:00 for a MP-free Cure V.

By that token, Chivalry also sucks because its recast timer is also 20 mins?

Better let our PLDs know they're better off using Spirits Within/Spirit Taker!

[Nirokun!]

seeing as how i dont really merit anymore (school (*'-')) and i decided to start meriting smn skill ((************'-')), whm merits have hit the back burner~

I have 5/5 regen (<3), 1/3 devotion, and 1/3 shellV

when i finally get around to finishing whm, i think i'll get 5/5 barspell, and finish shell and devotion. ProV apparently sucks, and i can just mod the spell casting to look like V if i want pretty sparkles. Martyr..... eh. I have benediction for my insta-cure, and if i have no mp, im already resting. The reaction time for an insta-cureIV/V is too slow (to save someone) assuming you're resting when you have no mp. If theres nobody to cover you while you're resting, theres more of an issue with your PT/Alliance setup than the whm's merits.

I'm a dirty regen whore. Dirty dirty, skanky skanky for the regen. Merit PTs, dynamis, limbus- i run haste/regen/haste/regen/haste/regen/haste/regen lines, and i can rest after if i need to. Between (haste/regen[*]haste/regen) i can throw in cures if someone takes extra dmg the regen wont account for, or blindnas, or if the situation is dire enough, interrupt the line to toss a big cure. I really avoid hate spikes if im actually in the PT fighting, or if i need to spike, i follow a cure4/flash/voke with something big, and dont pull hate god loves -enmity, and you should too

Cure castime is for the birds, i have a low enmity flash that i can spam with plds so they can keep up shadows and pretty much avoid unnecessary healing altogether (plds can heal their AoE for hate, im just there to heal them when they cant manage it themselves in an efficient manner). Breaking in a new whm's urge to heal any and all -HP is like, undoing everything they've known and loved for years and years /fun

[Nirokun!]

And hell, I like my far more efficient cures landing before the rdm's... /grin.

I hear this alot from whms. But calling it efficient when you and the rdms are overlapping doesn't make sense. I'm not saying that -cast time isn't noticeable. Your cures recover HP earlier. But is that really getting you anything? In the example you cited, it makes no difference who gets their cure off first, both of them still happen.

There's a big difference between "I see it!" and "it helps me do my job."

quoted because it needs to be said again

learning to cure maybe be a primary lesson, but knowing when to interrupt to save mp is just as important ;P (another reason i refuse curecast)

[Correction]

Martyr sucks because it's 20:00 recast, fuck that. I'd much rather have a pretty animation from Protect V than wait 20:00 for a MP-free Cure V.

By that token, Chivalry also sucks because its recast timer is also 20 mins?

Better let our PLDs know they're better off using Spirits Within/Spirit Taker!

Apples and Oranges.

Martyr sucks because it's a mediocre HP restoration tool, AND has a 20 minute recast.

Chivalry/Devotion both replenish MP instantaneously regardless of their recasts. That's way better than getting back HP in most situations.