your GS? check out Asuras

[Sidanoir]

If a legit say...BLM camped Ulli for exp + money...and sold autumnstone at a reasonable price I would buy a trigger from him or her. The reason being its probably more worth my LS time and my time to do an event such as say..Ouryu or Tiamat or anything else with some money drops but sky cause god knows how long Ulli would even take to pop let alone get the claim and use the proceeds to get a Byakko pop, since Byakko and Kirin drops are pretty much only ones we need anyway.

My LS has more than paid its dues in sky and so have I, I don't need to waste 13 hours of playtime to lose Ulli pull to some fucking RMT who I can't even MPK

[Khalil]

If a legit say...BLM camped Ulli for exp + money...and sold autumnstone at a reasonable price I would buy a trigger from him or her. The reason being its probably more worth my LS time and my time to do an event such as say..Ouryu or Tiamat or anything else with some money drops but sky cause god knows how long Ulli would even take to pop let alone get the claim and use the proceeds to get a Byakko pop, since Byakko and Kirin drops are pretty much only ones we need anyway.

My LS has more than paid its dues in sky and so have I, I don't need to waste 13 hours of playtime to lose Ulli pull to some fucking RMT who I can't even MPK

I certainly do agree that camping Ullik is a big timesink and hopeless in some cases when it's packed, but what kind of game would it be where everything is just handed to you on a silver plate? I do also agree that the pop time for Ullik is beyond unreasonable. 4-12 hr pop for a fucking mob who pops Byakko seems a bit extreme to me, even for fucking SE. Reduce that pop time or make him a forced pop like Olla. That would probably solve most of the problems that we have with Ullik.

[Obev]

Not that I'm condoning the buying of anything from gilsellers, but if you look at it this way, you're actually taking money away from them:

If the Autumnstone is selling for a price less than they could sell drops from Byakko for, you win?

[Sidanoir]

Im not sure if any other old school sky raiders remember...(think old gold models and earlier)

But my memory of Ulli always was that it was a 2-4 hour pop just like other lotto mobs in sky...then for some ungodly reason SE changed it.

The Aura Pot concept would be nice, if they utilized the statues at nexus to drop the trigger as well...

I also remember times when exp parties would pop ulli and it would remain unclaimed long time cause they didnt want to kill it and ruin exp or something >.>

[Mischa]

Not to derail this topic, but how many of "legit" players or normal players in HNMLSs actually buy triggers, then go around bashing the CGFs?

A fair share, I'd imagine. You sustain the cycle by purchasing a trigger from a gilseller. You can't complain while you contribute; it's laughable.

[Melchiah]

On buying triggers:

It is a very very shameful thing to do, and legit shells should not have to pay extortionists to play a game they are already paying SE for. With this in mind, I direct your attention to this wiki article regarding Protection Rackets. This is the same racket that the Ulli RMTs are running, just applied in a slightly different manner. The principle remains however, that they are disrupting your Linkshell's day to day business, forcing you to either pay what they want, or not be able to play certain aspects of the game. As to how I feel about buying the triggers? I think it really blows, but at the same time... how do I pop Byakko? I work 50 hours a week, and it's not behind a screen playing FFXI. I simply cannot compete with entire armies of RMT who have 24 hours a day to cockblock me at Ulli. As it happens, our shell leader will not consent to purchase Autumnstones, and as a result, we have popped Byakko twice in two months. Personally, I am not opposed to purchasing the stones, but I will scream, cry, bitch, moan and holler about it in the hopes that if enough people do the same, maybe something will get done. It isn't being hypocritical to buy stones because you are forced to, and then complain about it. No more than it is for a shop owner to pay protection money and tell the police or FBI week in and week out that he is being extorted. You have to keep your business or linkshell running however you can in the meantime while you are bitching out loud to the authorities. That's my thoughts on it at any rate.

Edit: I found this line in the wiki article to be most apt:

"(these organisations often exist in the absence of a trusted police force)"

[ghostfaced]

Viking definatly popped JoL today and then it definatly spawned AV -_-;;; /sigh

[Khalil]

Some people in my LS are contemplating about buying triggers from CGFs. I have argued their point and have explained how hypocrital they can be if they do so, while also hating the CGFs for cockblocking them. Yet, their main argument is "I can do whatever I want with my gil."

Honestly, this is what pisses most about people who support RMT activities. They acknowledge that CGFs are the plague of FFXI yet they directly endorse and support them by buying triggers and gil. I wish I was given the Ban Stack for 24 hrs, I would assure to clean this game of any RMT RMT-supporters for good.

[Melchiah]

Some people in my LS are contemplating about buying triggers from CGFs. I have argued their point and have explained how hypocrital they can be if they do so, while also hating the CGFs for cockblocking them. Yet, their main argument is "I can do whatever I want with my gil."

Honestly, this is what pisses most about people who support RMT activities. They acknowledge that CGFs are the plague of FFXI yet they directly endorse and support them by buying triggers and gil. I wish I was given the Ban Stack for 24 hrs, I would assure to clean this game of any RMT RMT-supporters for good.

I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm just trying to put this in perspective. I think buying triggers is bad bad business, and I should not be put into that position. But how do I pop Byakko when Ulli is fucking custom-made for RMT claims? Normal players don't have the time to devote to camping upwards of 12 hours to claim him, much less to try and claim him against tele-claim RMTs. So you say you would banstick RMTs and their supporters? Would you also send shopkeepers who pay protection money to mobs or gangs to jail? I mean, they are trying to keep their business running while you(the authorities) are taking your time in dealing with the reason they support those organizations. What would you have them do? I mean, I guess it's easy to take that stance if you already have Haidates and Osode or already have your N. Hands or W. Legs.

Edit: All I'm really saying is that I do have a problem with RMTs cockblocking us in sky, but at the same time as a linkshell you have to keep your operations running. I'm sure there are plenty of talented, deserving NINs, WARs, SAMs and MNKs out there in dire need of Haidates and they can't get them unless they pay for Byakko pops.

[Judai]

Why people try to compare RL and a game always amazes me. If all the retarded people stopped buying shit from RMT, we wouldn't have this problem. Case in point, all the people who have bought shit from them, supported them and caused the problem we now have.

It's too far gone now, but it's still rather pathetic to buy from them. So many gilbuyers have made it to endgame now that it doesn't matter. They see the easy way out and just spend the gil they bought from RMT on the items.

If RMT never sold the stones/gear, they wouldn't still be there cockblocking everyone. Instead, people bought from them and fed the monster. Now they won't leave because they make a ton of money off it.

If you or your LS buy from RMT, shut up and never complain. You are part of the problem. Period.

Nobody needs a haidate. My Monk has outparsed plenty of people, including some Ridill WARs, w/o them.

[Delekii]

Nobody needs a haidate. My Monk has outparsed plenty of people, including some Ridill WARs, w/o them.

Have you outparsed an otherwise equally geared and merited monk who has haidates, while you do not?

That is why people need haidates.

Skill > Gear only goes so far - when two people are of an equal or similar skill level, equipment is the deciding factor.

Saying that people are part of the problem because they buy pops off the GS is ridiculous. If there is no other way to get the pop items, then no other avenue is available to experience that part of the game. I am not saying that I or anyone in my LS would buy pops, but I can certainly see why people who are desperate for the gear would walk that path.

Dont blame the people who are forced into the position of either choosing to buy the pop items or miss out on the end result - blame the people that are A: causing the circumstances, or B: not doing enough to counter it. People are well within their rights to complain about the circumstances they are forced to partake in. Like I said in a previous thread, there is literal "forced", and there is logical "forced". Nobody is forced to do anything in this game. You can stay at level 1, walking laps around your moghouse if you like. But if you want to get anywhere, you have to do certain things, some of which you wont like to do. If you want to get Haidates in an RMT saturated sky, you have to buy pop items.

[Judai]

Want =/= Need.

I actually have outparsed Monk's with them and with similar gear, just cause alot of people suck at this game. Equipment only goes so far, skill outweighs gear.

All the people who keep preeching gear is the end all thing, fail. Seriously, my mnk,blm,pld are all very well equipped and I do my job to the best of my ability. I don't need haidate, I don't need m.body. Needing something implies you are unable to do your job without it.

People constantly saying I can't do things w/o something. I love to do it and laugh in their face after. So many people with the best gear in game and they completely fail at it. It's sad and you can tell they RMTd their way to their gear.

Yes, I want a pair of B.Haidate, but I don't need it. It makes me sick to see these idiots running around in them like they used some skill in buying the stone from RMT. Then you party with a couple and completely destroy them on parse. Gear helps, but it does nothing for you w/o skill.

They are part of the problem, because they caused it. In the early days RMT were nothing and were easily pushed aside. Once those people started buying their product they got bigger and stronger. It went from one party at Ulli to the now 2+ Allys of RMT at Ulli. Because of these people, it went from a squad of RMT to an Army. Yes, if you purchase from RMT, you are a part of the problem.

[Melchiah]

Why people try to compare RL and a game always amazes me. If all the retarded people stopped buying shit from RMT, we wouldn't have this problem. Case in point, all the people who have bought shit from them, supported them and caused the problem we now have.

It's too far gone now, but it's still rather pathetic to buy from them. So many gilbuyers have made it to endgame now that it doesn't matter. They see the easy way out and just spend the gil they bought from RMT on the items.

If RMT never sold the stones/gear, they wouldn't still be there cockblocking everyone. Instead, people bought from them and fed the monster. Now they won't leave because they make a ton of money off it.

If you or your LS buy from RMT, shut up and never complain. You are part of the problem. Period.

Nobody needs a haidate. My Monk has outparsed plenty of people, including some Ridill WARs, w/o them.

I fail to see how my comparison between RL extortion and RMT is not a valid argument. Pray sir tell me how it is wrong rather than just "it is wrong." You make the claim that "If RMT never sold the stones/gear, they wouldn't still be there cockblocking everyone. Instead, people bought from them and fed the monster. Now they won't leave because they make a ton of money off it."

I find this to be poor logic. They found a way to bring FFXI Zilart endgame to a screeching halt and they are capitalizing on it. The information is out on the web for them to figure out what drops from what in sky and what those drops do, and they can gage demand for them from the endgame population in-game. It was just a matter of time before this happened, and it is doubly worse since SE has made Ulli in particular so attractive to organizations who have the capability to hexa-box crews around the clock at his spawn location. Real players(outside of mayhaps a group of homeschooled children with 20 some-odd hours a day to play) cannot compete with that sir, and I dare you to challenge me on this point. I also would like to see screens of the WARs gear that you outparsed because I'm tempted to call BS, but that is beside the point. Now I want you to tell me, since because of my stance, not my actions(I stated earlier that my shell does not buy stones) I am part of the problem, how do I get a piece of gear that I desparately want, when I don't have 24 hours a day to camp Ulli?

Also, you state that if people stopped buying stones RMT would leave sky. News Flash, people level new jobs all the time, some people from two years ago still don't have the gear they want from sky. Shells are not going to just boycott sky to try and starve the RMTs out, you are being unrealistic. RMT know they have an effective stranglehold on the sky NM progression, and they know the demand for those monsters is extremely high.

In addition Judai, I am well aware that want and need are two different things. However, I pay Square-Enix enough of my RL money because I want to have a legitimate shot at some Haidates, it's why I play this game. I am being forced in a sense to pay an interloper to GTFO out of my way to those Haidates.

[Judai]

Why are you taking it personal? If you do not buy, then my comment is not directed at you is it?

First off, organized crime in real life will actually threaten your life and livelyhood. RMT does not. They can not delete or injure your char. They only make it harder to obtain certain things. We are not talking a house, car, family. We are talking luxary items, such as a Big Screen TV or your Dream car. So no, your comparison does not work.

Also, it's a game and in no way can you compare it to real fucking life.

Yes, they started off small and were an annoyance, but when everyone and their mother just decided to buy from them, they caused the now armies to appear. If people just kept on with camping and mpking the RMT when they were small, they would not have grown. If you can't sell your product, you make no money and eventually have to find a new course of action. This is called a strike. Unfortunately, the people who bought from them screwed the rest of us over.

I don't even have to defend my outparsing a Ridill WAR because most people realize it isn't the best thing ever. Black Belt Monk > Ridill WAR in most exp parties. Call bullshit if you want, but it's true. Not like you know anyone on my server that I could have tell you about it.

About Sky gear and wanting, no shit? Two years and people don't have all they want? SAME HERE. I have Shura Togi and Z.Mitts from sky dude. That's all. It's not cause of RMT tho, it's cause I am in a smaller LS with friends and we have never gotten into endgame as much as I would like. I have however made my rounds through a few LSes and done just about everything in game.

Yes the situation sucks. I agree. Eventually I will probably get a pair of haidate and I will be pleased to know I didn't buy it off some retarded, emo ass, why do they hate me, RMT who can't get a real job.

Point is, if people had never bought the shit, we wouldn't have the problem. If RMT just keep cockblocking and getting nothing from it, they would have stopped. Instead, people bought and caused this problem.

[SalvAsura]

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Welcome to Asura!

[Melchiah]

My position is that legit shells are being forced into choosing between buying stones, or not popping Byakko and Kirin. This is a disruption of day to day linkshell operations for end game shells. The wiki artilce I posted for comparison to protection rackets is valid. FFXI has a social structure and an economy. There is no reason I cannot relate certain parts of it to real situations. Protection rackets do not normally threaten bodily harm, rather they seek to disrupt or bring a halt to the day to day operation of the business in question. The day to day operations of shells like the Order and other such endgame shells is to pop those NMs and thereby gear its members. Sky RMT disrupt this business in the same fashion as the rackets disrupt the ability of the shopowner to do his business.

I agree that buying stones is bullshit, but I will not agree that legit shells buying stones contribute to the problem. Nay, that is the result of the problem, not the cause. The choice is you either buy the stones or you don't experience sky. You haven't answered my question yet, so I'll ask again. The frequency of legit NA shells claiming Ulli in recent months on my server has experienced a sharp downturn. The RMT have most of them, this is fact. So how do I get my Haidates? And before the comment about lolthoseshellsjustsuckatclaiming, these are legit shells that have been around a long time and had much success in sky.

[Luke]

Not this topic again -.-

People don't buy autumnstones because it's the easy way out (usually), it's because the demand for byakko/kirin drops is through the roof (by every LS), and the supply is limited by the RMT due to Ulli's spawn conditions. Alhough, I do know of a few rich crafters who buy all types of stones and have had other LS's kill gods etc for them hoping to get certain items.

I have no problem camping something when I know it will spawn within a reasonable amount of time. I checked MG's tod when RMT killed it before my LS was to go up, and we camped for it's repop vs another real LS and RMT for 1.5hr or so np. Ulli/A-stones would not be as big of a problem as it is now if it spawned more often, there's not much more to say about it.

edit: holy shit @ Asura's RMT lol...they're pimped out. The newest group on Carbuncle that went through CoP etc, has some decent gear, some BLM's have multiple AF2's etc... kinda surprised me when i examined them. They must go to dynamis during off-peak times since I never seen them in there, much less in multiple zones due to their multiple AF2's.

I was working on Destroyers in kuftal tunnel and some of their BLM's were in groups -ga'ing huge trains of monsters, while others were soloing spiders/crabs, and using proper staves for each spell etc.. so they're not completely retarded.

[Janice]

People buy them cause its the easy way out.

[Judai]

It's your choice. Complain to SE about it, maybe it will be fixed.

1. Camp Ulli and take what you get.

2. Don't pop Byakko/Kirin and focus on other HNMs/Kings/Gear.

3. Buy your stones. (If you choose this, never fucking complain.)

If you buy, you contribute. There is no gray area. Buying from RMT directly supports them. If everyone struck and stopped buying from them, I bet you would see them change focus and move somewhere else. Supply and Demand, they brought the supply, people bought causing demand. If nobody bought, there would be no demand. If people had dealt with it sooner, it wouldn't be a problem.

Instead assholes such as Napoleon or w/e on Asura? Ulgokiem, Galerian and people on Ifrit all contributed and helped RMT become the monster they are now.

Want =/= Need.

The sooner your LS realizes how to have fun and not care about gear, the sooner your problems will be solved.

[Khalil]

I'm trying to see the logic of people who say they are "forced" into buying a trigger. If you simply want an item from Gods, go up there, put in the time and claim the triggers. You're not "forced" to have a B. haidate, you're not "forced" to have a Kirin's osode, etc. There is a big difference between a need and a want.

People who come up with excuses such are these part of the reason why CGFs are thriving atm. Honestly, if we MPKed CGFs and didn't buy their products, would you honestly think they would still be in sky, sea, infesting our gaming experience. They're in for the profit. If there is no profit, they would leave and come back and assess the situation whenever a profit is made possible. Until then, we would have been in a RMT-free game.

Simply put, if you buy triggers from CGFs, you're the reason why CGFs still exist. If you haven't, continue fighting the good fight.