Smoking Bans

[Gregorio]

By voting to impose a law that bans public smoking, it ceases to be a legal activity.

Technically...if the law bans public smoking, then smoking in a bar is still legal. A bar is private property.

If you meant that voting for a law that bans smoking in restaraunts/bars makes it illegal, then it still doesn't justify the law. The justification for why something is illegal cannot be "because it's illegal".

The only reason I even mentioned "perfectly legal" in my earlier post was because if I had excluded that and said "However, the government should not be able to jump in and tell business owners what activities they can and can't do on their own property.", I know someone woulda jumped in and brought up that I think it's okay to murder people on private property or something.

Most of the time we don't, you're right, its a Republic, but on issues like public smoking, etc, that aren't decided in congress but rather on the ballot during an election, its about as close to a pure democracy as you can get.

Until someone gets busted for the law and appeals the case, where it may or may not be upheld. If the case is overturned upon appeal, it doesn't matter how many people vote for it. The same thing is still happening with all those gay marriage bans that some southern states put on the ballot.

The only real power the people of the country have is to put the politicians in office. We essentially have no direct say in most of the public policy.

[Xavier]

Until someone gets busted for the law and appeals the case, where it may or may not be upheld. If the case is overturned upon appeal, it doesn't matter how many people vote for it.

Yeah, thats true too.

Why do you support the practice of murder on private property? :wink: :wink: :wink:

[Lordwafik]

Speaking as someone who's never smoked, but has 2 chainsmoking parents, all relatives/family smoke, has had co-workers smoke around them, has had friends smoke around them all through high school and college while we were out for lunch or whatever crap - fuck smoking.

When I went to the doctor due to my retarded heart problems, the first thing he told me is to quit smoking. All that smoke people think is careless actually got to me and caused me problems, why? I don't fucking know. What benefit did my parents get smoking? What parents did my friends/co-workers get smoking? Nothing, it's all detrimental, and I wish they never smoked because the damage that has been done isnt exactly a flu, I can't sleep my heart problems away in 2-5 days.

Thanks guys!

[Devek]

Until someone gets busted for the law and appeals the case, where it may or may not be upheld. If the case is overturned upon appeal, it doesn't matter how many people vote for it.

Yeah, thats true too.

Why do you support the practice of murder on private property? :wink: :wink: :wink:

So if I am in a restaurant where someone is smoking 100feet away from me for an hour one night a week for 10 years.. How much shorter is my life expectancy? I want facts.

[Scythiroth]

I hate the people that try to defend smoking. You can't defend something that is killing you and people around you, so stop trying.

[Xavier]

Are you a hired gun of the tobacco industry?

I'm not going to say it shortens your life by .25 seconds for every 30 minutes of second-hand smoke you come in contact with, thats not the point.

If you're trying to argue that someone whos lungs have been exposed to second-hand smoke will have no noticeable difference compared to someone who hasn't, then lol.

[Ashen]

lol @ the cancer arguement.

the sun gives people cancer too, lets ban that. engine exhaust also contains carcinogens, we can get rid of those, no one needs them anyways. in some cases your probability of getting cancer is genetic, lets sterilize everyone with cancer so it doesnt spread either.

[Lordwafik]

lol @ the cancer arguement.

the sun gives people cancer too, lets ban that. engine exhaust also contains carcinogens, we can get rid of those, no one needs them anyways. in some cases your probability of getting cancer is genetic, lets sterilize everyone with cancer so it doesnt spread either.

The Sun is a fact of life
Cars are transport of this day and age, and new Environment Friendly transport R&D teams pop up every day to try and find a way around fuel.
Smoking does nothing beneficial, and is 100% detrimental, it is also completely voluntary (until the person is addicted).

Do you ride a smoke to work? Do you need to eat cigarettes or you'll die?

[Xavier]

lol @ the cancer arguement.

the sun gives people cancer too, lets ban that. engine exhaust also contains carcinogens, we can get rid of those, no one needs them anyways. in some cases your probability of getting cancer is genetic, lets sterilize everyone with cancer so it doesnt spread either.

Exposure to the sun isn't a choice when I'm walking down the street. Exposure to second-hand smoke is something you've directly caused.

Thats such a bullshit argument.

[Scythiroth]

Why do people keep bringing up the car smoke argument into this topic? Yes it is bad, but until someone creates a more efficient way of getting from place to place, that is really all there is.

Smoking is not needed by anyone and never will be. It is a pointless addiction that only hurts people and helps no one.

[Cleveland]

I think people who cant control their kids in restarauts annoying....can we ban them to? I am sure I can find some crack-pot univeristy to release a report about how crying babies in restaraunts disrupts the digestive process causing colon cancer. Its pretty easy. Find a person dying of colon cancer. Ask them if they have ever eaten in a restaurant with a crying baby. If the answer is yes......its BAN TIME!

[Axil]

Living is the leading cause of death !

[Xiona]

simple solution to cars and their emissions... uhhh how about a ban on gas only engines and enforcement of no cars in major cities (making mass transit the only option and widening its spam)? you cant use the "cigs 2nd hand smoke gives me cancer so you shouldnt do it" UNLESS you are willing to give up or modify your car and other harmful activities that produce pollutants and cause cancer.

most people only want to do things which they dont have to change their own personal space, ie non smokers. you arent the ones who are addicted to cigs, nor are you the ones who have to give it up. therefore its easy as hell for you to say "gtfo with your cancer sticks" while hopping into your car and never once attempting to put effort into implimenting change in that area.

im not saying its "right" to subject somoene else to your destructive habits, but i am saying at least if youre going to make an arguement be consistant. btw the "its optional" doesnt apply to the mind of a person addicted. sorry unless youve been there you have no idea what its like. i guess i can say cars are optional as well, i mean you CAN wake up 3 hours early and ride a bike to work or school, right?

one thing i do agree on is banning cigarettes completely at a cut off birthdate. as i said before, yes within the first generation of the change or so people will be able to ninja them off the older people but you wont be able to when its harder to obtain them because youre trying to get them off your 100 year old nana.

or better still; impliment a smoker registration. make it a year long available to everyone who smokes and is of age. only they will be able to buy cigarettes and noone without a reg card will be able too. generation or two and noones alive to buy cigs, end of the smoker and non smoker debate. people who smoke will still be able to buy them and people who dont wont have to worry about newer generations getting hooked. of course we still have the "where can you smoke" debate but id rather have the "how can we just end it all together discussion".

oh and the smoking climate has seemingly changed since i first started 9 years ago anyways. ive quit for 2 weeks now and not looking back, but the general feeling im getting from younger people is that they dont want to do it and its gross. so thats at least a shimmer of light in a dark room

[Toralyn]

I hate the people that try to defend smoking. You can't defend something that is killing you and people around you, so stop trying.

I don't defend it, as a smoker I think it's completely disgusting, detrimental to my health and those around me while I'm smoking, and a waste of money. I've been trying to quit for awhile, but it's pretty hard. I'm doing better by smoking less, but I wish to God I could just flip a switch and turn it off.

Long time no see btw Scyth.

[Devek]

Secondhand drinking kills a shitload of people and it is impossible to avoid the risks without staying at home and never leaving the house.

If you step out of your house and get close to a road, you are at risk of immediate death from secondhand drinking.

Drinking helps no one and just kills people.. lets ban that to.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7991/drunk201au2.gif

[Xavier]

You can't solve the world of all its problems with a single wave of your hand.

From what I've seen, they're trying to find alternative sources of energy for cars as well as cleaning up their emissions. It'll take years before that type of technology is developed and effective in a mass-market production line.

It'll take 20 seconds to fix second hand smoke.

Tackle the problems you can fix quickly today, while continuing to work on the more difficult ones over the long-term.

"I won't stop smoking in public until you've developed an alternative source of energy" is such a narrow-minded defense.

[Toralyn]

Are you a hired gun of the tobacco industry?

He's probably someone who just saw Thank You For Smoking as well as being a smoker and thinks he can pull similar shit.

[Scythiroth]

I don't defend it, as a smoker I think it's completely disgusting, detrimental to my health and those around me while I'm smoking, and a waste of money. I've been trying to quit for awhile, but it's pretty hard. I'm doing better by smoking less, but I wish to God I could just flip a switch and turn it off.

Long time no see btw Scyth.

That is good that you are trying at least, some people just tend to defend it way too much. There is a warning on those packs for a reason.

Yeah, it has been a while lol. I don't even play anymore. >_>

[Scythiroth]

You can't solve the world of all its problems with a single wave of your hand.

From what I've seen, they're trying to find alternative sources of energy for cars as well as cleaning up their emissions. It'll take years before that type of technology is developed and effective in a mass-market production line.

It'll take 20 seconds to fix second hand smoke.

Tackle the problems you can fix quickly today, while continuing to work on the more difficult ones over the long-term.

"I won't stop smoking in public until you've developed an alternative source of energy" is such a narrow-minded defense.

Changing the subject when questioned on their addiction must be one of the side effects of smoking.

[Toralyn]

Ditto. Ayann's brother has my account now.

For all those smokers trying to defend what we do to ourselves and others, you're fucking idiots.