Smoking Bans

[Miji]

Of course you'll disagree with them.

Just like drug addicts are against the drug being illegal.

It's all about YOU.

I've never smoked before and I'm against it. I've also never touched an illegal drug before in my life and I think they should be legal.

It's all about personal freedom and choices.

It stops being personal when your choices affect others around you.

[Kenai]

I started posting this just to reply to the "Fast food kills you too" quip.

There will be a time in your life (probably) where you will be required to use this little thing called "personal responsibility". You know, for your actions. "OMG, I can't stop this food from crawling into my fucking mouth" or "the fumes from McDonalds make me fat" won't work. Nutritional information is provided, healthy options for eating at nearly every eating establishment in the coutry are in efect, and yet still tons and tons of people are overweight. Why? Because it is THEIR CHOICE to continue eating, not work out, whatever.

It is your job to manage your own body, once you are of appropriate age. If you are a child, it is your parent's job. What works for one person might not work for another. Some people are highly allegic to foods that some may be fine with. Some have a different metabolism, and needs different diet plans to mantain an ideal body weight. And if you are a child, it is your parent's job to teach you proper eating habits and monitor what you are consuming to make sure it is heathy for you. But if you are not a kid, then it is YOUR job to keep youself under control. It is one thing to admit when someone has an eating problem, and needs help. It is totally a different scenario when Mr. and Mrs. Chunky Monkey try to sue a fast food restaraunt for making them fat, "because their food tastes too good. It's certainly not our fault".

In as such, since I am responsible for managing my own body, I am responsible for making sure that I do the best I can with it, which is to get smoking away from me. If you light up in a closed building, it's far more concentrated than anything outside, and it is everywhere near that individual. Most things other people can do legally will not not (in)directly harm me, per se. Soon, hopefully, smoking will be added to the "can not harm me legally" thing. Like said before, I did not have a problem with a heated, semi-comfortable sanctioned area, away from the main exits by a restaraunt, where people could go to smoke in relative comfort if wanted. I also am a bit concerned about totally restricting smoking in bars, but since I do not frequent them, I will leave it to the bar-patrons on those matters. but don't you dare try to tell me that it's your personal freedom to do that in a non-bar food place/work place, because as soon as that smoke gets in my lungs, it stops being your personal freedom and starts being a violation of mine.

Smoking around children should never happen, and *I* think that is a form of child abuse, but that is something that parents still have total control over. Good parents who want to smoke will do it away from their kids. Bad parents...well, I feel really sorry for tose kids, since anything they do get from it they will most likely never outgrow.

One last thing: people will say that business will be lost by spokers leaving. I say non-smokers who can't stand smoke will be more likely to show up. It's just as likely, anyway.

[Janice]

I must take care of my body by punching smokers in the face if they approach me. It's my body and I must take care of it.

[Kenai]

I must take care of my body by punching smokers in the face if they approach me. It's my body and I must take care of it.

Smokers punch you from the inside.

[Gregorio]

Of course you'll disagree with them.

Just like drug addicts are against the drug being illegal.

It's all about YOU.

I've never smoked before and I'm against it. I've also never touched an illegal drug before in my life and I think they should be legal.

It's all about personal freedom and choices.

It stops being personal when your choices affect others around you.

It is your personal choice decide to stay around someone who is smoking. You can easily go somewhere else.

(Note: I've already said I'm against smoking in public places...like outside on sidewalks, parks, etc. But a bar is not a public place.)

[Kenai]

Of course you'll disagree with them.

Just like drug addicts are against the drug being illegal.

It's all about YOU.

I've never smoked before and I'm against it. I've also never touched an illegal drug before in my life and I think they should be legal.

It's all about personal freedom and choices.

It stops being personal when your choices affect others around you.

It is your personal choice decide to stay around someone who is smoking. You can easily go somewhere else.

(Note: I've already said I'm against smoking in public places...like outside on sidewalks, parks, etc. But a bar is not a public place.)

Several people being forced to go elsewhere because of one smoker vs one smoker going elsewhere. Majority rules. Sorry.

I say bars should be the exception on that. It just seems like the kind of place they were made for. I don't really have an explanation for why I think so though, not yet, even though I am somewhat contradicting myself by saying tht. it bothers me.

[Gregorio]

It's not always the smokers who are outnumbered. What if there's more smoking patrons in a resturaunt than non? Does the whole place then become a giant smoking section? Majority rules and all. Oh, and the whole fact that the "majority" should have nothing to do with how someone runs their private property.

Anyway...if you really hate it so much, talk to your favorite reaturaunt owners/managers, write their coroprate headquarters or whatever and let them know that you will not be going to their establishment because you don't like smoke. I'd much rather see a place go smoke free because the owners decided it rather than because the government decided it.

[Kenai]

Anyway...if you really hate it so much, talk to your favorite reaturaunt owners/managers, write their coroprate headquarters or whatever and let them know that you will not be going to their establishment because you don't like smoke. I'd much rather see a place go smoke free because the owners decided it rather than because the government decided it.

The government only made it law. I am quite positive that if more people were against it than for it it would not even be an issue. I wouldn't be surprised if this came out of all that writing and petitioning.

[Enkidu]

Oh, and the whole fact that the "majority" should have nothing to do with how someone runs their private property.

Yes it should.. You're basically saying that private companies should be able to dump raw sewage into rivers on their property or that restaurants can use expired meats in their kitchen simply because they're a private organization.. Or how bout having a drug house? My private property, why not?? Hey I'll invite children too, they like drugs!

You can complain all you want that the above scenarios are extremes, but that's really only your subjective opinion. I can guarantee that in some point in history all 3 of the above happened and people were OK with it, now we aren't ok with it. If the people choose that we aren't ok with smoking, bye bye smoking. Kill yourself in a private establishment that's NOT open to the public. (Private clubs, your house, etc..)

[SephYuyX]

Oh, and the whole fact that the "majority" should have nothing to do with how someone runs their private property.

You can complain all you want that the above scenarios are extremes

An actual example would be how Hustler and other porn stores get shut down a lot due to complaints.

[Xavier]

I'd much rather see a place go smoke free because the owners decided it rather than because the government decided it.

I voted for the smoking ban and I'm quite sure I don't work for the government.

This wasn't an issue that the government inforced, it was an issue put on the ballot that the people voted on, and it passed. At that point, more people are for no smoking in public places than against, so I don't understand why its a big deal to respect the wishes of the majority.

The thing that a lot of people keep going back to is that ones individual freedom ends when it interupts that of another. Smoking is an attack on everyone around you, because you can't just internalize the problems. Something like fast food is a problem that you're causing solely to yourself.

I still don't think bars should be included in the ban, since a bar is quite obviously a place to go smoke and drink, and I know that when I go to one.

[Gregorio]

Oh, and the whole fact that the "majority" should have nothing to do with how someone runs their private property.

Yes it should.. You're basically saying that private companies should be able to dump raw sewage into rivers on their property or that restaurants can use expired meats in their kitchen simply because they're a private organization.. Or how bout having a drug house? My private property, why not?? Hey I'll invite children too, they like drugs!

You can complain all you want that the above scenarios are extremes, but that's really only your subjective opinion. I can guarantee that in some point in history all 3 of the above happened and people were OK with it, now we aren't ok with it. If the people choose that we aren't ok with smoking, bye bye smoking. Kill yourself in a private establishment that's NOT open to the public. (Private clubs, your house, etc..)

If I really have to tell you the difference between smoking and giving children drugs then you need to have your head examined.

lol Xavier didn't I mention earlier that if I didn't include "perfectly legal" someone would try and make it seem like I think people can do whatever they want on private property? XD

This whole debate isn't really about smokers rights vs. non-smokers rights. I hate smoke, it gives me a headache and makes me sick. I can, however, respect the right of people to run their private property however they wish. Serving the public or not, it's still private property. If I don't feel like going somewhere where I know there's going to be smoke, I don't go there.

I voted for the smoking ban and I'm quite sure I don't work for the government.

The law came from somewhere didn't it?

And I think we discussed earlier that it ultimately falls upon the government to deal with this law one way or another. Government enforcement is the same thing as government enacting the law.

[Xavier]

Are you saying you'd rather the government ignore the laws that people vote on?

And yeah, you saw that argument coming a long time ago lol.

[Gregorio]

I'd rather the government not have put the law on the ballot in the first place. "The people" should have no say on what happens on my property.

[Janice]

I'd rather the government not have put the law on the ballot in the first place. "The people" should have no say on what happens on my property.

SE created chocobo raising. SE didn't think it up. It was suggested by the player base. Same thing with petitions.

[Gregorio]

Lots of older people/parents hate video games and rap too. They've petitioned. Thank God the government wasn't stupid enough to put those to ballots though. But look at the FCC. 1,000 angry soccer moms and bible thumpers were upset that they saw an OMGNIPPLE during the super bowl. Should a minority of the population control what's allowed on TV just because they petition and complain?

Laws that restict individual freedoms for "the good of the public" are inherantly immoral.

[Kenai]

Lots of older people/parents hate video games and rap too. They've petitioned. Thank God the government wasn't stupid enough to put those to ballots though. But look at the FCC. 1,000 angry soccer moms and bible thumpers were upset that they saw an OMGNIPPLE during the super bowl. Should a minority of the population control what's allowed on TV just because they petition and complain?

Laws that restict individual freedoms for "the good of the public" are inherantly immoral.

Video games/rap are something you can choose to ignore, choose to not buy for your kid, and in reality, don't affect anyone else but the people who choose to involve it in their lives. If it ever DOES (noise pollution caused by super loud music for example) laws are in place already for those types of things to protect the rights of individuals who do not want involved. Smoking by people is forcing them to suffer from second hand smoke. It's really not so hard to understand. It's not about the indiviual freedom being restricted so much as the individual's rights being protected (in this case, a person's right to breathe smoke-free air). Again, I think it is dumb to ban smoking from bars, bars are smoking/drinking/light eating based establishments, and even then there are plenty of smoke free bars, but whatever.

[Janice]

Lots of older people/parents hate video games and rap too. They've petitioned. Thank God the government wasn't stupid enough to put those to ballots though. But look at the FCC. 1,000 angry soccer moms and bible thumpers were upset that they saw an OMGNIPPLE during the super bowl. Should a minority of the population control what's allowed on TV just because they petition and complain?

Laws that restict individual freedoms for "the good of the public" are inherantly immoral.

We got the ESRB, we got the V-chip. Those came out of all that junk.

You think people should be able to play music as loud as they want on their property? Noise pollution is serious business. Mrs. Old lady rottencrotch lives next to some punk ass kids who play loud music all the time. I guess its her fault for moving there. Or maybe she should confront them? No.

[Gregorio]

Video games/rap are something you can choose to ignore, choose to not buy for your kid, and in reality, don't affect anyone else but the people who choose to involve it in their lives. Smoking by people is forcing them to suffer from second hand smoke. It's really not so hard to understand. It's not about the indiviual freedom being restricted so much as the individual's rights being protected (in this case, a person's right to breathe smoke-free air).

You CAN choose to ignore smoke. Don't go into private establishments that allow smoking! It's not your right to breath smoke free air on someone elses property. And before you say it, I already said I don't like smoking in public places.

[Janice]

You don't have to go out of your way to avoid video games and rap. You DO have to go out of your way to avoid cigarrettes.

Clubs can play extrememly loud music cause you don't have to go out of your way to avoid listening to it. Houses can't play loud music (loud enough for neighbors to hear it) because it interferes with someone's daily life.

If something you do invades someone else's life where they have to change their routine, expect some type of regulation. If what you do doesn't affect anyone else, chances are you will be left alone.