Job Adjustments (12/01/2006)

[Xavier]

Somehow a BRD being able to sing their songs in rapid succession while a COR is stuck on a minute timer never really made much sense to me.

[Elcura]

Only thing that could make 1 min recast timer acceptable would be to have each roll on a seperate timer. Or something like that...

[Elmer the Pointy]

Somehow a BRD being able to sing their songs in rapid succession while a COR is stuck on a minute timer never really made much sense to me.

They probably wanted to accomodate for a Corsair's participation in a battle. Either that or balance out its ability to participate with a timer.

[Elcura]

You make it sound like SE had some kinda rational when making jobs... just look at what they intended NIN to be and how it ended up...

[Xavier]

You make it sound like SE had some kinda rational when making jobs... just look at what they intended NIN to be and how it ended up...

Have some faith. Its not as if Square released a relatively worthless job in the expansion along side two decent ones and continues to mock it with every patch.

[Elcura]

You make it sound like SE had some kinda rational when making jobs... just look at what they intended NIN to be and how it ended up...

Have some faith. Its not as if Square released a relatively worthless job in the expansion along side two decent ones and continues to mock it with every patch.

Why must you wound me so deep.

[TsingTao]

Somehow a BRD being able to sing their songs in rapid succession while a COR is stuck on a minute timer never really made much sense to me.

Perhaps they were worried about people whoring out COR for the exp bonus. If you could toss out a new roll every few seconds you can maximize your party performance....then toss out a Corsair's Roll at the last second for the exp boost.

I'd guess SE didn't want everyone whining because there weren't enough COR to ge everyone a 10% (or whatever it is) exp bonus. I know I wouldn't want everyone tossing that on top of the Astral Cascadence bonus if I werea dev. That costs the company money...that's a lot of exp time saved.

[Valrath]

New updates for pld do look nice. Whether we really needed them, can't say. I'd rather SE fix other issues and the April 06 update did alot for pld. Still more is nice. Only downside is the buff only helps for 30s every 5 mins. In fast-paced battles, I don't think it'll help a lot, but in longer fights, it will help greatly.

I only hope these changes can help in xp/merit pts. Plds have a tough time getting good one, so anything to help boost us up the pt totem pole will be nice.

[NynJa]

Somehow a BRD being able to sing their songs in rapid succession while a COR is stuck on a minute timer never really made much sense to me.

in exchange, bard songs dont last anywhere near as long as corsair rolls.

[Xavier]

Somehow a BRD being able to sing their songs in rapid succession while a COR is stuck on a minute timer never really made much sense to me.

in exchange, bard songs dont last anywhere near as long as corsair rolls.

Yet are somehow far more effective. Thats some balance there.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Somehow a BRD being able to sing their songs in rapid succession while a COR is stuck on a minute timer never really made much sense to me.

in exchange, bard songs dont last anywhere near as long as corsair rolls.

Yet are somehow far more effective. Thats some balance there.

Not exactly. Chaos roll for example tops out at 24%. Assuming average melee attack is 400 thats a 96 bonus. On one roll thats as good as 2 minuets. A good average would be half that (with a DRK of course), which is comparable to a Minuet. Fighter's roll can easily be compared to march and comes out rather favorably vs 12% haste (my opinion is double attack > haste due to WS enhancing capabilities and over time being around the same average tp bonus.) Etc etc. Also most of the rolls do something completely different than BRD songs.

[Xavier]

Somehow a BRD being able to sing their songs in rapid succession while a COR is stuck on a minute timer never really made much sense to me.

in exchange, bard songs dont last anywhere near as long as corsair rolls.

Yet are somehow far more effective. Thats some balance there.

Not exactly. Chaos roll for example tops out at 24%. Assuming average melee attack is 400 thats a 96 bonus. On one roll thats as good as 2 minuets. A good average would be half that (with a DRK of course), which is comparable to a Minuet. Fighter's roll can easily be compared to march and comes out rather favorably vs 12% haste (my opinion is double attack > haste due to WS enhancing capabilities and over time being around the same average tp bonus.) Etc etc. Also most of the rolls do something completely different than BRD songs.

Naturally you only talk about merit parties.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Somehow a BRD being able to sing their songs in rapid succession while a COR is stuck on a minute timer never really made much sense to me.

in exchange, bard songs dont last anywhere near as long as corsair rolls.

Yet are somehow far more effective. Thats some balance there.

Not exactly. Chaos roll for example tops out at 24%. Assuming average melee attack is 400 thats a 96 bonus. On one roll thats as good as 2 minuets. A good average would be half that (with a DRK of course), which is comparable to a Minuet. Fighter's roll can easily be compared to march and comes out rather favorably vs 12% haste (my opinion is double attack > haste due to WS enhancing capabilities and over time being around the same average tp bonus.) Etc etc. Also most of the rolls do something completely different than BRD songs.

Naturally you only talk about merit parties.

Those enhancements work well on HNM...and hell, Rogue's Roll is amazing on HNM. They can enhance SMNs, which BRD can't do, and with a SMN in the party evoker's roll is actually rather consistent and about equal with ballads. On a single roll. For tanks of course March is better but an occasional Magus's Roll can be VERY nice for certain HNM.

I'm not saying COR>BRD, I am saying that rolls are damn nice. Sure you have to implement it smartly, you cant toss in a COR without thinking, but the benefits of such are massive.

[TsingTao]

Somehow a BRD being able to sing their songs in rapid succession while a COR is stuck on a minute timer never really made much sense to me.

in exchange, bard songs dont last anywhere near as long as corsair rolls.

Yet are somehow far more effective. Thats some balance there.

Not exactly. Chaos roll for example tops out at 24%. Assuming average melee attack is 400 thats a 96 bonus. On one roll thats as good as 2 minuets. A good average would be half that (with a DRK of course), which is comparable to a Minuet. Fighter's roll can easily be compared to march and comes out rather favorably vs 12% haste (my opinion is double attack > haste due to WS enhancing capabilities and over time being around the same average tp bonus.) Etc etc. Also most of the rolls do something completely different than BRD songs.

Naturally you only talk about merit parties.

Should we talk about Minuet II in Yhoator Jungle and how it compares? Or should we talk about HNM and the songs that BRD can't match at all like +MATK Bonus?

They're different jobs. COR does some of the things a BRD can do (better or worse, depending on PT and luck). COR also does quite a few things BRD can't do. Nice trade off for the things if can't replace a BRD for.

[Awoir]

Or should we talk about HNM and the songs that BRD can't match at all like +MATK Bonus?

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/5186

Not exactly the same but with soulvoice I'm pretty sure BRD wins again!

[Lordender]

i remember that 1 roll cor has, can't remember the name since i just woke up but it enhanced smn dmg on wyrms was pretty hot -.-

[Xavier]

I don't think COR sucks. I just don't think its overall as effective as BRD. I think for the best results you have to stack the two jobs in the same pt.

[Vigion]

I don't think COR sucks. I just don't think its overall as effective as BRD. I think for the best results you have to stack the two jobs in the same pt.

That is exactly how SE intended it. The jobs together are a great. COR+BRD works better than BRD+BRD, which that alone makes them a good combo to work with.

[Awoir]

I don't think COR sucks. I just don't think its overall as effective as BRD. I think for the best results you have to stack the two jobs in the same pt.

That is exactly how SE intended it. The jobs together are a great. COR+BRD works better than BRD+BRD, which that alone makes them a good combo to work with.

I still preferred BRD+BRD to BRD+COR, although I had only really had 3 or 4 merit PTs with a COR, but just another BRD to be able to lullaby made it better IMO, maybe this update will change that.

[XxSlusherxx]

Really for HNM the diffrence is ellegy, on hnms you use SMN damage a corsair is going to make the fight go faster than a bard, but Ellegy > all