Leveling Dark Knight with Great Axe?

[Evelyn]

Coming from a RDM that had to level DRK, I used scythe/GS simply because I wanted them leveled. However, I didn't think I was doing so much damage that I didn't go /WAR. Last Resort just sucks ass compared to berserk, you get double attacks, and you get a small def boost. with /nin, you get three shadows, then hope and pray the monster turns around afterwards (which it doesn't always), then hope your recast timers go back up. /NIN pre-74 isn't all its cracked up to be. Plus, last I checked you don't get dual-wield delay reductions til lvl 25 nin, which is beyond where the op wants to take the job.

EDIT: about the OP's question, yes I'd use GAxe. Even before sturmwind, Shield Break is nice.

[Awoir]

Coming from a RDM that had to level DRK, I used scythe/GS simply because I wanted them leveled. However, I didn't think I was doing so much damage that I didn't go /WAR. Last Resort just sucks ass compared to berserk, you get double attacks, and you get a small def boost. with /nin, you get three shadows, then hope and pray the monster turns around afterwards (which it doesn't always), then hope your recast timers go back up. /NIN pre-74 isn't all its cracked up to be. Plus, last I checked you don't get dual-wield delay reductions til lvl 25 nin, which is beyond where the op wants to take the job.

EDIT: about the OP's question, yes I'd use GAxe. Even before sturmwind, Shield Break is nice.

You don't get Double attack till lvl 25 WAR, which is beyond where the op wants to take the job also. Zerk isn't there till 15 WAR, so at least 24-30 if you dont need an extra voke why not sub NIN? (Cue /DRG /RNG arguements here)

[Lockecole]

with /nin, you get three shadows, then hope and pray the monster turns around afterwards (which it doesn't always), then hope your recast timers go back up.

Actually technically 6 hits, which especially with the utsusemi update of losing hate with shadows is usually enough for a competant tank to get hate off of you, or for you to survive the mob till it dies.

Plus, last I checked you don't get dual-wield delay reductions til lvl 25 nin, which is beyond where the op wants to take the job.

Well last you checked you'd be wrong. Dual-wield at 10 indeed does give a 10% delay reduction, its been tested.

I've tried sword/sword a ton. Its nothing compared to what I can do with my Scythe, it was just for fun. Exactly how much do you mistreat your scythes? You don't need attack gear with them. I'm usually hitting around double what a WAR also using sushi hits, not counting zerk. I dont use attack gear, +18% haste is better than whatever attack gear can do. You can keep saying the damage curve or whatever the fuck you think is the problem is is broken, but some of us have figured out how to thrive using two handed weapons.

My DRK is 66 right now, been using Sword/Sword or Axe/Sword or Axe/Axe since Ive been exping the job. I have +8axe/+16 sword in merits, and anytime I've changed to scythe Ive nearly vomited at just how bad my damage is, even with the almighty Guillotine. Guillotine better damage than Vorpal Blade? In your dreams. With Dual Wield Ive capped as high as 880 without any buffs, and 1400+ with Soul Eater on IT Crawlers. I can break 1k easy on soloable mobs with Vorpal Blade, with no buffs. Rampage is even better but swords at this level are just so much better (BloodSword/Espadon +1) I switched to scythe for a couple of crawlers, couldnt break 600 for the life of me and somehow even managed to do a 600 Guillotine with Souleater up. That's terrible. Yes I know how to gear correctly also. I have max accuracy where it can be (Sniper +1, Peacock Amulet, Swift belt, Patroc Helm.)

My point is, I dont even have my Hrotti/Ridill combination which will be at 70 and its still better. I'm sorry Maxx....you're delusional. Scythe is just really that bad. I have a friend who has the best gear possible for DRK, all Scythe merits, Death Scythe +1, and parses 10% of the PTs damage against Ridill WARs. I wish I could agree with you, I really do, and I wish SE would change things regarding 2handed weapons, but they haven't. Until then Im leaving 2 handed weapons to the SAMs.

I was Lvl.60 during this pic. Not close to my highest but even the game is telling us Sword is better.
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/7...7vorpalsx6.png

[Evelyn]

technically 3 shadows, you don't always have the opportunity to do recasts immediately. And sorry about the DW and DA mixup, been a while since I've leveled subs so I didn't remember. but either way, I'd still use war sub personally, since it can help hold hate off even squishier mages if neccesary.

[Michaera]

I was Lvl.60 during this pic. Not close to my highest but even the game is telling us Sword is better.

What was your SJ? Wasn't Maxx's original argument DRK/WAR with a scythe vs DRK/NIN with two weapons? With NIN sub you're probably going to perform better with two weapons than you would a two-hander, but if sword is inherently that much better, you should argue also for sporting sword/shield with WAR sub, right?

The problem, regardless of weapon, tends to nowadays be damage mitigation. And the easiest way to solve it is NIN sub. SAM sub is interesting but in my experience it doesn't keep a two-hander alive well, as a SJ. If you have access to good one-handed weapons that you can dual wield when you're forced to sub NIN, with good skill, and access to good WSes like Vorpal Blade and Rampage, more power to you. With the xp trend as it is being all ToAU, TP spam, no real tank, shoot-TP-when-you-have-it, unless you have another good 75 merit job, you'd probably be well advised to look into axes or swords.

As far as pure, overwhelming, I like to be an MP sponge damage goes, I think DRK/WAR with any two handed weapon would win out over DRK/NIN.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Maybe, just maybe, your 8 sword merits have something to do with it.

Oh and yeah, try /war with scythe. How can you compare optimal setup using one with suboptimal using another?

Sorry but no.

Oh and its not half as bad of a mp sponge as you seem to think assuming you are smart and your tank isn't a tard.

[Michaera]

Oh and its not half as bad of a mp sponge as you seem to think assuming you are smart and your tank isn't a tard.

It always is for me on DRG. xD But I don't party with many real tanks anymore, which is the problem. Most parties consist of 3 people with shadows, me, a BRD and RDM and damned if they can keep the mob off me. DRK I would imagine is even worse with the kind of spike hate that Last Resort gets (I think)

I challenged the ridill WARs in my LS to try to keep xp mobs off me with WAR subs but we haven't had the opportunity to test them out yet as tanks. >.>

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

It always is for me on DRG. xD But I don't party with many real tanks anymore, which is the problem.

Ding ding ding!

We have a winner

[Not Kuno]

Ninja sub fucking owns. I don't hold back at all and use souleater right when its up with raging axe and I usually end up tanking for the rest of the fight. But its ok I still live because of ninja sub. I can't imaging 2h weapons doing as much as I do with raging axe and most drk I partied with that used 2h weapons sucked COMPLETE ASS in comparison to me. My axe swings were close to his dmg but I attacked twice and my weapon skills didn't completely blow.

So in conclusion, 2 handed weapons suck. Not subbing ninja is a death wish unless you want to "hold back" and not do your job anyway.

[Lockecole]

Maybe, just maybe, your 8 sword merits have something to do with it.

Oh and yeah, try /war with scythe. How can you compare optimal setup using one with suboptimal using another?

Sorry but no.

Oh and its not half as bad of a mp sponge as you seem to think assuming you are smart and your tank isn't a tard.

Why would I try Scythe with /WAR? If /WAR with Scythe is that much better, wouldnt it in turn just cause me to have hate more often then I did with /NIN, therefore killing myself even more? I seriously dont understand how a /WAR with Scythe could survive a Guillotine with Souleater unless it straight out killed the mob. Perhaps its not that your tanks are so good Maxx, maybe you're just not as good as you think you are.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Maybe, just maybe, your 8 sword merits have something to do with it.

Oh and yeah, try /war with scythe. How can you compare optimal setup using one with suboptimal using another?

Sorry but no.

Oh and its not half as bad of a mp sponge as you seem to think assuming you are smart and your tank isn't a tard.

Why would I try Scythe with /WAR? If /WAR with Scythe is that much better, wouldnt it in turn just cause me to have hate more often then I did with /NIN, therefore killing myself even more? I seriously dont understand how a /WAR with Scythe could survive a Guillotine with Souleater unless it straight out killed the mob. Perhaps its not that your tanks are so good Maxx, maybe you're just not as good as you think you are.

You dont souleater guillotine. Actually you almost never souleater. You don't need it.
Listen, I dont know what you're doing so wrong, but if your guillos with zerk or LR up arent 600-700 average w/o DAs you're doing something wrong... If you arent doing 150+ per hit you're doing something wrong.

[Lockecole]

Maybe, just maybe, your 8 sword merits have something to do with it.

Oh and yeah, try /war with scythe. How can you compare optimal setup using one with suboptimal using another?

Sorry but no.

Oh and its not half as bad of a mp sponge as you seem to think assuming you are smart and your tank isn't a tard.

Why would I try Scythe with /WAR? If /WAR with Scythe is that much better, wouldnt it in turn just cause me to have hate more often then I did with /NIN, therefore killing myself even more? I seriously dont understand how a /WAR with Scythe could survive a Guillotine with Souleater unless it straight out killed the mob. Perhaps its not that your tanks are so good Maxx, maybe you're just not as good as you think you are.

You dont souleater guillotine. Actually you almost never souleater. You don't need it.
Listen, I dont know what you're doing so wrong, but if your guillos with zerk or LR up arent 600-700 average w/o DAs you're doing something wrong... If you arent doing 150+ per hit you're doing something wrong.

Who levels DRK without a Souleater healing PLer nowadays? :wink:

[Thevaultdweller]

Who levels DRK nowadays? :wink:

Fixed.

[Plow]

You dont souleater guillotine. Actually you almost never souleater. You don't need it.

holy fuck you fail at DRK so hard

edit to answer the op: Gaxe is hawt for the sturmwind period

vorpal scythe is sexy with war sub pre-rampage

you should probably have power slash available til vorpal scythe too

and... as lame as some people will claim it is, sneak attack + slice/hard slash is no joke for the levels you'd consider using it

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

You dont souleater guillotine. Actually you almost never souleater. You don't need it.

holy fuck you fail at DRK so hard

As a DRK/WAR pre-75 situations its rarely useful. That's what I'm talking about, that's the context.

btw if I fail at being a failure have I succeeded?

[Plow]

You dont souleater guillotine. Actually you almost never souleater. You don't need it.

holy fuck you fail at DRK so hard

As a DRK/WAR pre-75 situations its rarely useful. That's what I'm talking about, that's the context.

That's retarded.

That's also part of why drk/war fails.

Even still, a good drk/war should be able to make very good use of it.

[Not Kuno]

You dont souleater guillotine. Actually you almost never souleater. You don't need it.

holy fuck you fail at DRK so hard

As a DRK/WAR pre-75 situations its rarely useful. That's what I'm talking about, that's the context.

That's retarded.

That's also part of why drk/war fails.

Even still, a good drk/war should be able to make very good use of it.

Srsly. My drk is 49 but the job and souleater is so fun I bought a kraken club because I know I'm gonna love the job. When I /nin about 40% of the time I can pull off 2 weapon skills during one souleater thanks to dual weild and absorb TP. The damage is fucking throught the roof I usually do 500 dmg wses and my highest was like 600 something. And this is at 49 mind you. No other melee in xp touches me in parsing.

[Kurp]

I kinda want to level DRK to 75 with both great sword and scythe staying lv20 or under. :D

[Kirschy]

I think I might be one of the only DRKs to hit 75 and have Great Sword level below 100. Heh... On the note of Dual Wield... its just increadibly effective... even on DRK. It's much easier to see at the lower levels, esp when the difference between an A and B weapon are hardly noticable. I didn't mess with dual wielding while I lvled... so I realli dunno where it loses effectiveness. I can tell you for sure that for meritting/Dynamis type stuff, I've often outparsed myself using Axe/Kraken, Axe/Ridill over Scythe. It's just the way the game works... and might as well take advantage of it.

[RKenshin]

Seems like everyone has there own ways of leveling DRK... lol

Personally, I used GA and /WAR from 25 to 56. Sturmwind will easily outdamage any other WS at those levels, and 2h DoT with the right gear actually does well. By 50 the range of a full-hit was around 300-500 without SE, and 600-900 with SE.

At 56 I changed to /NIN and went with Rampage for a bit, but the damage and DoT through those levels were kinda weak overall. But, did get a crazy 1.5k rampage on an IT, lol.. In the end though I didn't like being a gimpy WAR.

At 59 I changed to Scythe and used Guillotine the rest of the way, still while /NIN. Depending on the mob, a full-hit would usually have a range of 500-1200 with an average of like 700, and a full-hit with SE would usually have a range of 1200-1800 (had an 1800 at level 60, lol).

I also parsed every exp PT from 40ish to 75, and outparsed in almost every PT with a majority of them with WARs and/or MNKs. I still have those saved somewhere in like this library of parses I have.