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Thread: SAM/RNG with Soboro     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #1
    Sea Torques
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    SAM/RNG with Soboro

    I'm taking up SAM at the moment. Currently at 48 and climbing.

    I believe SAM gets Sidewinder at around 56-58? Somewheres along those lines.

    Was wondering with the new update to Ranged Attacks and Accuracy. Is using this sub still viable. I think I will have to still do some footwork in regards to when I do the WS, or with the recent changes will I be able to let lose right ontop of the mob and not miss horribly 90% of the time?

    Also I will have to get some RACC/RATK gear to switch to for WS purposes. Any Advice on some choice pieces would be greatly appreciated. Looking at somepage right now to find a list of good Racc stuff.

    So really, just wondering if the /rng is worth it. Since I only have that at 11. I don't want to take it to 37 and then it be not worth it lol.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    I had one in a party in Wajaom Woodlands a little while ago that was doing great damage to Colibri. Not sure if it would be good after you move away from Colibri, but it was definitely good on them.

  3. #3
    SPOONY BeARD
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    I outparse any melee job with my 64 sam/rng on puks and colibri.

  4. #4
    Sea Torques
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    How do you do on non Bird-types?

    Is it still viable on other mobs? (Baring Skeletons of course) Or should I just sub /war on other types of monsters.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kael
    How do you do on non Bird-types?

    Is it still viable on other mobs? (Baring Skeletons of course) Or should I just sub /war on other types of monsters.
    Non-bird types is still decent. You will not outdmg every melee on them but you most certainly will on bird types with good gear. I've staticed with LS peeps since 56 until 66 and i've been able to PT on bird types at every lvl anyways.

    Zerked Dhalmels are fun too ^_^

    However, the problem is not about how much dmg you can do but how much dmg you will take. I hate the idiots who do not ever control themselves and go all out. All they become is a MP sponge.

    Either way, probably the most fun PT i've ever had was Sam/Rng, x2 RNG, BRD, WAR, RDM @ 58 on Lesser Colibri.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kooldac

    Non-bird types is still decent. You will not outdmg every melee on them but you most certainly will on bird types with good gear. I've staticed with LS peeps since 56 until 66 and i've been able to PT on bird types at every lvl anyways.

    Zerked Dhalmels are fun too ^_^

    However, the problem is not about how much dmg you can do but how much dmg you will take. I hate the idiots who do not ever control themselves and go all out. All they become is a MP sponge.

    Either way, probably the most fun PT i've ever had was Sam/Rng, x2 RNG, BRD, WAR, RDM @ 58 on Lesser Colibri.
    I've been pretty good with managing Seigan. Thank Yin(?) for that patch. XD It's been really helpful when I get too much hate.

  7. #7
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    That was one of the problems I noticed with that SAM/RNG though is that he would go all out and end up tanking 50+% of the time. ~_~ It really isn't the tanks fault but was a waste of mp trying to cure him instead of the tank.

  8. #8
    Ho Mamthra
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    I partied with a SAM/RNG with Soboro the other day in Bhaflau, on the Erucas there. She was doing alright, very good damage and all.... when it hit. Her hit rate with Sidewinder was something like 2/5. x.x You'd have to be very careful with that. Especially against mobs that you can't eat sushi against, unless you're wasteful (eat sushi, hit bird with sidewinder, lose sushi).

    I don't think she was stacking any incredible amount of R. Acc, but I really don't think there was much more she could've had. PCC, snipers (could've been +1 racc rings..).. I guess it's more situational to your camp. If you're camping Ts-VTs, it probably works better. If it's ITs, have to see it for yourself. x.x Not long into the party she warped and changed subs.

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    I tried sam/rng once at 71 with soboro, wasnt able to make it work. I still need a bunch of r.acc gears, but I don't really want to fill my inventory with another 10 pieces of macro gears for a job I wont use in merit PT. I'm getting this one to 75, and meriting on my war after.

    Dunno, even with every gear, I dont see it being ahead of sam/war by a significant factor.

    -Soboro has shit dot (on parser) compared to normal g.ktn, and the average number of hit per swing seem to be around 1.8 (was parsed on gamefaqs a while back)

    -Lose double attack, 10atk, berserk for 20acc (you will be stuck eating sushi, and chance is your melee attack wont benefit as much from it) You also lose the always useful provoke in merit. Beside the str, hasso probably doesnt work for range WS (not that it matter since you are always on seigan anyway >_>)

    - lolzanshin can't proc on range ws, but can apparently proc on normal WS.

    - You will need to run from the monster to use your WS, pissing off every other melee when you pull hate


    Even if sidewinder outdamage great katana WS, it need to be reliable to be useful. It would be stupid to lose the chain because you missed 2 sidewinder in a row. You can also throw random skillchain a lot more easily with g.ktn than bow (if you have a mnk spamming asuran, chance is you will be able to close darkness a few time).



    Anyway, I will probably borrow some r.acc gear at 75 and try it again once or twice. I would be surprised if it's significantly better than /war even if some sam seem to like that combo

  10. #10
    Sea Torques
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    Thanks for the explanation. I guess its more situational on what you are fighting.


    I do have some good Racc gear though. PCC and Woodsman. And room for some to be used as Macro'd gear. Especially with that new +10 Moglocker incoming. XD

    Thank you all for your input so far. It's helpful.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michaera
    I partied with a SAM/RNG with Soboro the other day in Bhaflau, on the Erucas there. She was doing alright, very good damage and all.... when it hit. Her hit rate with Sidewinder was something like 2/5. x.x You'd have to be very careful with that. Especially against mobs that you can't eat sushi against, unless you're wasteful (eat sushi, hit bird with sidewinder, lose sushi).

    I don't think she was stacking any incredible amount of R. Acc, but I really don't think there was much more she could've had. PCC, snipers (could've been +1 racc rings..).. I guess it's more situational to your camp. If you're camping Ts-VTs, it probably works better. If it's ITs, have to see it for yourself. x.x Not long into the party she warped and changed subs.
    Either
    A.) This person had shit gear
    B.) They were IT+evasion mobs
    C.) They don't know what equip change macros are
    D.) Is running far back for WS

    40% hit ratio is stupidly bad
    I have on-par equips and still manage 75% always. Of course you get those hair-pulling streaks of 4-5 misses in a row.

    I think most everything has been covered already, but here are my equips for TP and WS. They are nowhere near perfect. If you want more advice PM Kachi on Alla. He's on my server and we talk about equips a lot. I still need a Precise Belt fyi

    TP
    WS

    Also the Colibri eating food business. Yah that just sucks. I sucked it up, made inventory space and bought about 3 stacks of Bream or Squid (whichever cheaper) for a 4-5 hr PT.
    I think I posted about it in my LJ too w/o any talk of equips tho.

  12. #12
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    I have on-par equips and still manage 75% always. Of course you get those hair-pulling streaks of 4-5 misses in a row.
    I think that's what it was for her, really. It probably actually boiled down to 60% acc, but it felt so much worse, because you really notice the misses. xD It was just the lack of food vs colibris or clawrars, whatever it was, I think it made it as if it were an IT++ monster with food. So.... situational?

  13. #13

    I would assume sam/rng would be fine at any level with the soboro, provided you have pretty good gear to keep your sidewinder accuracy high.

    It would be pretty close if not on par with sam/thf at 60+

    You would have to fire sidewinders at point blank to keep accuracy high, and to continue swatting with katana.

    at 60 you have to take into consideration /thf yukikaze, and compare it to how often you can WS with /rng and the damage each of them put out.

    fastest you would want to WS with /thf would be 60 seconds, for sneak attack.

    Whereas you would be going all out as sam/rng and probably do more total damage, and wind up tanking, but who knows with latest sam third eye increases, they may be able to spot tank a little better than they used to.

    just an opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterio
    I would assume sam/rng would be fine at any level with the soboro, provided you have pretty good gear to keep your sidewinder accuracy high.

    It would be pretty close if not on par with sam/thf at 60+

    You would have to fire sidewinders at point blank to keep accuracy high, and to continue swatting with katana.

    at 60 you have to take into consideration /thf yukikaze, and compare it to how often you can WS with /rng and the damage each of them put out.

    fastest you would want to WS with /thf would be 60 seconds, for sneak attack.

    Whereas you would be going all out as sam/rng and probably do more total damage, and wind up tanking, but who knows with latest sam third eye increases, they may be able to spot tank a little better than they used to.

    just an opinion.

    No.

    /war will outdamage /thf before hagun, and most likely after (didnt have the chance to parse). Never /thf on sam, keep that for HNM. I dont know why every sam have an hardon of their 800dmg WS on /thf, it doesnt make their dmg better in the end.

  15. #15
    Joa
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    I never really toyed with /rng much leveling, but now that I'm 75 I do use it once in a while. It's much more fun I think, and is very nice in some merit parties. But usually I won't use it unless we are going to like Mire or somewhere that IT+ aren't. Having a brd is a plus and mainly being with friends. I don't usually take it to random pt's, incase I get unlucky and miss like 2-3 in a row lol

  16. #16
    Ho Mamthra
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    I dont know why every melee job have an hardon of their 800dmg WS on /thf
    First time doing this, but fixed. Though it seems like the craze is dying out a little bit. Seriously, you can do the same thing with WHM sub if you wanted (it's only a crit guys) and got lucky, and with WAR sub or a Brutal you can crit AND/or double attack! I almost always get something to proc on wheeling thrust with war sub, and it's only one hit.

  17. #17

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylia
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterio
    I would assume sam/rng would be fine at any level with the soboro, provided you have pretty good gear to keep your sidewinder accuracy high.

    It would be pretty close if not on par with sam/thf at 60+

    You would have to fire sidewinders at point blank to keep accuracy high, and to continue swatting with katana.

    at 60 you have to take into consideration /thf yukikaze, and compare it to how often you can WS with /rng and the damage each of them put out.

    fastest you would want to WS with /thf would be 60 seconds, for sneak attack.

    Whereas you would be going all out as sam/rng and probably do more total damage, and wind up tanking, but who knows with latest sam third eye increases, they may be able to spot tank a little better than they used to.

    just an opinion.

    No.

    /war will outdamage /thf before hagun, and most likely after (didnt have the chance to parse). Never /thf on sam, keep that for HNM. I dont know why every sam have an hardon of their 800dmg WS on /thf, it doesnt make their dmg better in the end.
    Well if you assume that every samurai can afford A+ gear then it would make sense, I guess.

    I was really referring to the 60's, where you spend majority of your time fighting IT+

    As opposed to the flimsy vt's at 75

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterio
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylia
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterio
    I would assume sam/rng would be fine at any level with the soboro, provided you have pretty good gear to keep your sidewinder accuracy high.

    It would be pretty close if not on par with sam/thf at 60+

    You would have to fire sidewinders at point blank to keep accuracy high, and to continue swatting with katana.

    at 60 you have to take into consideration /thf yukikaze, and compare it to how often you can WS with /rng and the damage each of them put out.

    fastest you would want to WS with /thf would be 60 seconds, for sneak attack.

    Whereas you would be going all out as sam/rng and probably do more total damage, and wind up tanking, but who knows with latest sam third eye increases, they may be able to spot tank a little better than they used to.

    just an opinion.

    No.

    /war will outdamage /thf before hagun, and most likely after (didnt have the chance to parse). Never /thf on sam, keep that for HNM. I dont know why every sam have an hardon of their 800dmg WS on /thf, it doesnt make their dmg better in the end.
    Well if you assume that every samurai can afford A+ gear then it would make sense, I guess.

    I was really referring to the 60's, where you spend majority of your time fighting IT+

    As opposed to the flimsy vt's at 75
    exactly. Not every PT can be a perfect BRD + rdm or whm + melee on T-VT+

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylia
    No.

    /war will outdamage /thf before hagun, and most likely after (didnt have the chance to parse). Never /thf on sam, keep that for HNM. I dont know why every sam have an hardon of their 800dmg WS on /thf, it doesnt make their dmg better in the end.
    Personally, I don't get the hard-on for /war. The damage is not all that much better then /thf, as long as you are smart on /thf.

    TA tank for 500+
    SA for 800-1k

    As /thf I still do 2 SC a fight at least easy, if I get TP for another I just let it fly. /War my WS do a little more, about 6-700 and I can hit a couple extra times but me getting hate from doing so wastes MP.

    /War is nice when you have a THF in PT or a very good Tank. /Thf is a damn good sub tho.

    /Rng can be crazy with Soboro and really can out do /War on the right mobs and with the right gear. I have like +50 Racc I can sub in and I don't even use /Rng. Ohat, Pcc, Dusk Trousers, Mermans x2. You don't have to move back anymore to do great damage with /ra. Take a step or two off and nail it, then jump back up.

    Basically, I /thf unless I know the tank is going to hold hate. If they do I /war, just cause I don't have /rng yet.. (yea it sucks to have soboro and no /rng) I have partied with some Sam/Rng tho and it can be pretty devastating. Especially in Mire on Flys and Imps or leveling up on Colibri.

    Use whatever sub fits the situation imo. They are all very good and tbh, SAM is a situational job. Sometimes you can/need to just DD. Sometimes you are needed for helping on hate or in a SC. Use the sub that works best for the party.

    /Rng with Soboro definately looks fun tho. /War with Soboro was pretty hot for awhile tho too. 3way Self SC is crazy fun on xp mobs. Looking forward to pulling it back out soon to solo light on xp mobs. :D

    Last I checked, this was a game and you should be having fun.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterio
    Well if you assume that every samurai can afford A+ gear then it would make sense, I guess.

    I was really referring to the 60's, where you spend majority of your time fighting IT+

    As opposed to the flimsy vt's at 75
    I'm also refering to level 60, against VT or IT. /thf will not do more, under any circumstance. What /thf do is preventing you from getting hate by TA'ing one WS once in a while, which is not a problem anymore with seigan. I'm not sure what gears you are talking about, unless haubergeon is an A+ gear now. Sam gears is pretty cheap in overall

    Bring me parsing of a /thf outdamaging /war with similar gears if you can, but you won't, cause they don't.



    Quote Originally Posted by Judai
    Personally, I don't get the hard-on for /war. The damage is not all that much better then /thf, as long as you are smart on /thf.

    TA tank for 500+
    SA for 800-1k

    As /thf I still do 2 SC a fight at least easy, if I get TP for another I just let it fly. /War my WS do a little more, about 6-700 and I can hit a couple extra times but me getting hate from doing so wastes MP.
    I kinda said why when I compared it to /rng, but I will repeat for you

    First of all, /war start with a 10%+ dmg boost with double attack (10% more attack, 10%more WS. To this raw 10% increase, you have to add the chance to do more dmg with double attack on WS

    Berserk, which last 3/5 minutes will give a huge boost to your WS and normal melee attack. Unless you are fighting low VT, dmg difference with that skill on/off is very noticeable, and probably give you an aditional 20% in the end, maybe more.

    Now tell me, when you /thf, are you still going at 100tp? Chance is you will save it for high dmg WS. However, spamming multiple WS at 100tp will result in more dmg than your 200-300tp yuki or gekko. You wont be using SA every minute, because that ability is a bitch to use usually with positioning, tp not ready or SC partner. Also, I wouldnt be surprised if you miss the equivalent of one katana swing by using SaTa+WS (~100dmg, 18tp), which end up penalizing you a little.


    In the end, the increase in dmg of SA on WS is inferior to berserk+double attack combined. With provoke, defender, warcry and war's passive trait, I dont see any reason to sub anything else in xp.






    Basically, I /thf unless I know the tank is going to hold hate. If they do I /war, just cause I don't have /rng yet.. (yea it sucks to have soboro and no /rng) I have partied with some Sam/Rng tho and it can be pretty devastating. Especially in Mire on Flys and Imps or leveling up on Colibri.
    Here is what I do. I /war and tank, while being the first DD >_>. Seigan will prevent you from becoming a mana sponge, and your counter add up to your dot a bit. After tanking 2-3 years on warrior, tanking on sam isnt really different or "harder". I play both job almost the same in xp.

    When you say it can be pretty devastating, do you remember any number on parser?

    Last I checked, this was a game and you should be having fun.
    Last time I checked, this game involve playing with other, which mean you should be courteous, and try to get the best out of your character.

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