SAM/RNG with Soboro

[Navia]

SAM/RNG isn't too bad on piercing weak stuff.

I've partied with a few SAM/RNG and honestly they are better off with /WAR or /THF to spam Yukikaze/Gekko instead.

(sam/war or sam/thf) Tachi:Yukikaze (pretty much never missing) -> (rng)SlugShot/Sidewinder = Fragmentation for 400+ damage FTW

Sam/Rng Sidewinder (missing often)-> Ranger SlugShot/Sidewinder = Reverberation for ~100 damage FTL

It may get better after 70 with optical hat and more gear options, but around 60ish sam/rng doesn't deliver imo.

Anyone that uses a soboro on something like a magmatic eruca needs to be bitchslapped, cocoon and firebreath spam isn't doing the rest of the party any favors.

[laysha]

I've partied with a few SAM/RNGs post-unnerf, 58-60ish range. I must say thier ranged WSs were very nice, as long as they built the TP and had the RACC gear macroed in to back it up.

Seems a pretty viable combo from what I've seen, especially on the lovely, lovely assortment of piercing-weak mobs in the ToAU areas, but to each thier own.

[Don Katsu]

I did this post nerf pre unnerf a few months back even without the Soboro it's a very good combination on flying mobs which people tend to do until ~64
Tachi Enpi sucks

[Judai]

I kinda said why when I compared it to /rng, but I will repeat for you

First of all, /war start with a 10%+ dmg boost with double attack (10% more attack, 10%more WS. To this raw 10% increase, you have to add the chance to do more dmg with double attack on WS

Berserk, which last 3/5 minutes will give a huge boost to your WS and normal melee attack. Unless you are fighting low VT, dmg difference with that skill on/off is very noticeable, and probably give you an aditional 20% in the end, maybe more.

Now tell me, when you /thf, are you still going at 100tp? Chance is you will save it for high dmg WS. However, spamming multiple WS at 100tp will result in more dmg than your 200-300tp yuki or gekko. You wont be using SA every minute, because that ability is a bitch to use usually with positioning, tp not ready or SC partner. Also, I wouldnt be surprised if you miss the equivalent of one katana swing by using SaTa+WS (~100dmg, 18tp), which end up penalizing you a little.


In the end, the increase in dmg of SA on WS is inferior to berserk+double attack combined. With provoke, defender, warcry and war's passive trait, I dont see any reason to sub anything else in xp.

Basically, I /thf unless I know the tank is going to hold hate. If they do I /war, just cause I don't have /rng yet.. (yea it sucks to have soboro and no /rng) I have partied with some Sam/Rng tho and it can be pretty devastating. Especially in Mire on Flys and Imps or leveling up on Colibri.

Here is what I do. I /war and tank, while being the first DD >_>. Seigan will prevent you from becoming a mana sponge, and your counter add up to your dot a bit. After tanking 2-3 years on warrior, tanking on sam isnt really different or "harder". I play both job almost the same in xp.

When you say it can be pretty devastating, do you remember any number on parser?

[quote:35bdc]Last I checked, this was a game and you should be having fun.

Last time I checked, this game involve playing with other, which mean you should be courteous, and try to get the best out of your character.[/quote:35bdc]

Well, I really don't think I gimp anyone on any job. So unless they are one of those shitty 10% parsing SAMs like you partied with, then it doesn't matter.

At 71 I have yet to see myself "tank" at all reliably as SAM. Sure, sometimes you get lucky and can keep 3rd Eye up for like 2m, but usually you still get your ass kicked. Maybe my 3rd Eye just sucks.

No, I don't save TP, cause that's reatrded. I TA the tank at the start, that way I nor anyone else has to "tank" or voke. Solidify hate on the tank.

TA for 4-500. Where I'm seeing my /war WS only hitting for like 5-700.

Then later I SA for 800-1k. More then those /war WS.

Yes, /war is prolly more DD and DoT. It is not however the only or by far best sub imo. So, I don't see the uber dot from /war being as amazing or as good for parties as everyone thinks.

[Kaylia]

Well, I really don't think I gimp anyone on any job. So unless they are one of those shitty 10% parsing SAMs like you partied with, then it doesn't matter.

At 71 I have yet to see myself "tank" at all reliably as SAM. Sure, sometimes you get lucky and can keep 3rd Eye up for like 2m, but usually you still get your ass kicked. Maybe my 3rd Eye just sucks.

Then later I SA for 800-1k. More then those /war WS.

Not using the most efficient sub is gimping your party no matter how you see it. It's not different than gimping your pt with shitty gears, or by not doing your job properly.

You obviously havent seen yourself "tank" reliably, because you never tried (sub thf) to realize how powerful seigan can be. Your 3rd eyes should block half of the dmg taken at least, which probably put you on the same level as your pld tank at those level.

No, I don't save TP, cause that's reatrded. I TA the tank at the start, that way I nor anyone else has to "tank" or voke. Solidify hate on the tank.

TA for 4-500. Where I'm seeing my /war WS only hitting for like 5-700.

Tank are almost obsolete in xp pass 60. I dont understand why you want one so badly, and why it's so bad if he can't have hate all the time. As long as the mobs isnt on mage, and as long someone isn't berserk tanking all the time, you are probably doing good.

Anyway, why are you even comparing WS dmg between /war and /thf? I already explained those big damages mean absolutely nothing because:
1) it's only a minority of your WS that are used with SA (assuming you spam at 100)
and 2) only the overall dmg output in the end matter, and not spike dmg.

Yes, /war is prolly more DD and DoT. It is not however the only or by far best sub imo. So, I don't see the uber dot from /war being as amazing or as good for parties as everyone thinks.

Since we are the same level, let's party tomorrow and compare our dmg. I dunno about you, but if a piece of gear would increase my dmg by 20% or something like that, I would equip it. If a sub do that, I would sub it.

[TB]

I really enjoyed playing SAM/RNG before the big nerf. After it i pretty much sold all my /RNG gear and quit this subjob.

Now I recently got my soboro and we got the Ranged Attack patch, so I decided to bring it to Dynamis-Beaucedine, but I was totally disappointed. Accuracy still sucks and damage can't compete with my SAM/WAR. I wasn't using the totally hardcore SAM/RNG gear but overall it was pretty good.

The good old SAM/RNG times won't come back... Be smart, go /WAR!

[alt]

It can be a really fun combo. But for the most part is going to be pretty much restricted to exp, and only against lower level/non-evasive mobs. And to truely make it shine it really needs a fair amount of merits stuck into archery, which really hinders your effectiveness in other situations.

Unless you get a huge amount of fun out of going /Rng to xp, I would personally just stick with /War, /Thf, and /Nin.

[Judai]

I perma with a NIN and making sure she has hate makes the party run smoother, imo. SAM/THF loses some DD but gains the ability to keep hate on one person. I have subbed /war just about as much as I have subbed THF. I have seen myself "attempt" to tank plenty and having leveled PLD I can tell you it is nothing alike. I rarely get to use Hasso, /thf or /war, because I still pull plenty of hate. I've seen Third Eye stay up seemingly forever at sometimes and drop in one hit at others. I would hardly call it reliable for "tanking". When it drops I get my ass kicked. I don't see how that at all benefits the party.

I can't parse, cause I play on x360, my comp broke awhile ago and I just have my laptop now. I concede I will do less damage but I don't see how that is gimping the party. I am helping to keep hate on someone who can tank 10x better then I, thus letting the rest of the party do their thing. My one TA WS at the start of the fight just about always secures hate on the NIN.

/war is nice for pure dd. /thf is nice for other things. Maximum damage =/= maximum party benefit imo. Everyone has their own likes/dilikes tho. Subbing /nin would be gimping your party, I don't think /thf, /war or /rng would be tho.

[Demitrius]

It only works if you have the RACC to back it up, but if you do, holy smokes. I did SAM/RNG from 58 to 65 (so far) doing Colibri and Puks. As long as the mobs aren't IT++ you won't miss much. Even if they are IT++, if you have the gear you should have for the combo, all it takes is either Hunter's Roll or Prelude to make you viable again. I generally used Platinum Arrows for the really high stuff, then used Demons for Barrage,and then Sidewinder too when I got another level or two. Demons will do more damage per hit once you can use them, but if you can't land your shots, then there's no point lol.

The real treasure is the WS frequency. Between Med and Soboro, and Barrage too at 60, I'd be able to WS several times per fight (if I missed) and only had to land 2-3 for the mob to die. If you're WSing 6 times per fight, for 700-900 damage per hit, does it really matter if you miss half of them? I'd generally fire them off between 130 and 150%, which was enough to hit IT~ mobs consistently. I'd make self-reverberation by accident sometimes and then still be left with enough TP to fire again a few seconds later. With Seigan, hate isn't an issue. Just have a competent healer and you'll be fine. It also doesn't hurt that Third Eye sucks up Pecking Flurry like it's a tap on the shoulder.

My biggest issue, really, was that I could only fire 1 WS per fight from the optimal range, and then the rest would pretty much have to be point-blank.

Against non-flyers, now that I have Gekko I'll probably try /WAR again and just spam that. With Soboro I was doing 300-400 Gekkos to IT birds at 100%. I haven't tried Erucas yet. Hasn't been a reason =P


But yeah, I got more "O.o" than I could count from 58-65. Do it, enjoy it, it's awesome. And don't forget to 2hr!