Fairy Drama strikes again

[Vile]

It depends on the mood. The ever popular "Kill yourself" is kinda primitive IMO.

[TrueZero]

Wtf, I take a nap, go to work, come back and see 2 more pages thinking "sweet" and it's ryko and vile bullshitting.

Anyway, sorry to re-rail this, but just a few things (sorry about a second laundry list, but god damn I can't be on here long enough to retort every point as it happens, bastards):

Saying "LP is ok with botting" is putting words in my mouth. So here goes. Back when we first came to DA (way back) Eden was a relatively new shell, and only arrived in DA a bit later (I recall the usual DA mocking of you guys, kinda funny now when you think about it). UP and shit didn't even exist yet, and botting was nowhere near as prevalent as I would contend it is now. We got a few claims, Mibond a ridill, but then for some reason we were getting less and less. Eventually, UP arrived on the scene and claims dropped to an absolute zero for weeks on end. Frustrated, all the leaders (myself the exception) decided to leave the king scene for awhile.

Upon our return, we go a solid 3 months without a claim, almost to the day (I counted). Then, when we finally get a claim and kill Nid and immediately some butthurt jackass posts on some forum about how I "got a bot and distributed it to my entire linkshell!" Some bot I had there, took only 3 months to work!

At that point I was like, "fuck it, just, fuck it." Dealing with the DA PR game just wasn't worth it anymore, and it obviously didn't matter what we did. So obviously after leaving kings due to mysteriously not claiming (people blame bots, it's awfully hard to prove it in my opinion when you're comparing the speed to about 50+ other people in DA with the darter dat taken out, unless of course someone is idiotic enough to leave it on and go to sleep) then coming back and still not seeing anything, someone (afkmoron!) goes and gets a bot. Honestly, I sat there and was like "I can fuckin' see why." It's like when some kid gets bullied at his high school for 4 years and comes back and shoots everyone. Sure, shooting people isn't the right solution, but I can at least understand why someone would do that. Different people have their breaking points, obviously for some it comes quicker than others. Honestly, I simply wouldn't have the heart to tell someone they don't deserve to have something because other people bot it.

And regarding Ingwe, he got it because he's been in the linkshell a long time and done a lot, 'botting' isn't a factor. This may surprise you, but some people who are cheating assholes are actually pretty nice guys. Like, you know, dissenter (full circle re-rail!).

Though, honestly, since it seems like he's the only real issue that seems to piss you all off about the entire ls (shit talk on both sides notwithstanding), I'll certainly talk to the guy.

God damn, I've been playin' this game too fuckin' long for this interlinkshell diplomacy regarding DA shit, mirite? :wink:

[safer]

>_> this thread is big now

i dont have much to say, i havnt been online for over a month now, but im still very active on our forums and hear alot of things.... its funny how shortly after i take my break, i hear eden has gotten their hands on a few king claims.. fkers almost make me want to log back on again D;

about botting.. i guess the difference between our shells is that, while you dont care if someone bots, as long as you dont know about it(many of your members have expressed this view)... we are largely concerned with the issue, like ploid mentioned we had a really long linkshell discussion regarding actually using bots sometime last year but it was turned down and discussed that anything relating to hacking/botting etc would be a big no-no

also, allying with another shell should not be seen as something bad.. i think it may be hard for other servers to understand, but in fairy, many of us have alot of friends that are spread out amongst other shells, and to have the opportunity to do something with those friends is a blessing... plus it got us to sex up notED prty good ;o ;o

[Nystul]

so basically botting for YOU is ok because it benefits you.

See it's this kind of moral equivalency bullshit that annoys me. You can see why someone would do it so it's ok. Other people do it so it's ok. Whatever happened to character anymore?

I don't have to put words in your mouth. Your shell has a guy that afk claims not once, not twice but THREE times and nothing is done to him- aside from getting one of the drops from his afkclaims. This is called tacit approval. Your shell by virtue of the fact that you continue to allow this to happen ("Until there isn't anymore RMT LOLOL" like that ever fucking made sense christ) is giving it approval not because it benefits him but because it benefits all of you.

Don't think you found some loophole where you let a little toadie in your association collect the lunch money for you and that means your hands aren't dirty.

I think if you spent less time trying to rationalize the use of bots in your shell for your own personal benefit you might discover that aside from excal, bots are far less prevalent than you may have thought. Shit, I remeber back when TG claimed like 12/14 spawns over a two week period Fill had three of them...on summoner, with dia...on a PS2- something I can confirm by virtue of being in the room with him.


Regardless, do whatever you want. In the end, it won't matter much. My shell has great memories about achieving something difficult and your shell knows you just went, botted claim and hacked away at it for the kill. You're robbing yourselves of the experience more than other people of the claim. I do however, not feel like sitting around and listening to these gradeschool bullshit rationalizations. You can't say you want people to play fair but won't yourselves because someone else might not be. Have the balls to set and example or have the balls to be honest about what you're doing.

[Toth]

your shell knows you just went, botted claim and hacked away at it for the kill.

For somepne who claims to be so moral, you sure like to like to assume things. The same thing can be said for your LS too. It's all a matter of prespective.

This thread suceeded in the usual derail but ultimately fails because half the participants uses the same excuses and whines that have been discussed ad nausem on this board for many months.

[Syng]

TOTH JUST SHUT UP! You started this whole argument in the first place and no matter what we do or say, they'll think whatever they damn well please. SO JUST SHUT UP.

[Toth]

Smoochies for you, Syng. I was bored at work, okay! Anywho, it was worth a try to set the record straight but clearly a lost cause. Let's just let actions speak for words.

[Nystul]

Guy afk claims three times, I believe if I recall correctly that it's basically been admitted to earlier in the thread by you or true? These are specifically the instances to which I am referring, as well as the continued efforts by this person.

Secondly, despite the fact that I made no assumptions outside of the enjoyment of killing said dragon, I'd have no difficulty making the argument that morality and ethics have nothing to do with making assumptions <_<

Someone COULD say the same things about my LS however, there isn't a person in my LS that afk claimed three times, and furthermore there wouldn't BE someone in my LS that afk claimed three times because they would have probably been booted after the first and 100% been out after 2. People COULD say a lot of things but then those people would be just bullshitting and trying to shift blame...now wouldn't they?


Finally, my point isn't really centered on the morality here so much as it's on the whole ride the fence, dance around the issue, rationalize behavior, make excuses for yourselves crap thats being done. I'd probably (incomming assumption, morality caution!) respect your shell far more if you came out and said either:

1 "we dislike botting and we think it's unfair so we're not going to do it and the person that everyone knows does it is banned form aery or is booted or put in time out and his Tonka Trucks are taken away for a week"

or

2. "We want the shit, we don't want to bother with competing for it, so we're gonna bot it. No excuses, not nothing. We're botting it because it's easier."

But instead I get nonsense about seeing how someone could do this and other people do it and all that crap. Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining (thanks for the quote Judge Judy).

[Syng]

Smoochies for you, Syng. I was bored at work, okay! Anywho, it was worth a try to set the record straight but clearly a lost cause. Let's just let actions speak for words.

Download an emulator and some roms then biatch >o

[Machazareel]

your shell knows you just went, botted claim and hacked away at it for the kill.

For somepne who claims to be so moral, you sure like to like to assume things. The same thing can be said for your LS too. It's all a matter of prespective.

This thread suceeded in the usual derail but ultimately fails because half the participants uses the same excuses and whines that have been discussed ad nausem on this board for many months.

Our perspective is called 'reality'. What the fuck is yours called?

[rezn0r]

morning KI!

[MG!]

Brb, gonna go cry over our precious cerb wipe as pointed out by the almighty LP.

do all of our whms have algols yet? I am pretty sure they do.

[TrueZero]

whoa damn!

Alright, first off, as far as I know it was twice (he was told after the second time that I didn't want to catch him doing it again), I assumed after the first time that this was self-explanatory, but I guess I had to be a lot more clear.

Second, as I stated, I'm more than willing to talk to him again just to try to smooth this stuff over, because like I've said, I like Eden people (and the Fairy community in general, save a few exceptions) and I felt like having one retard shouldn't warrant hating an entire shell.

And yes! It IS tacit approval. It's not sitting on the fence, all I was saying was that I could understand under circumstances why someone would do something, I never said it was right, or that I even liked it (hence the school shooting analogy). The problem is, this isn't a simple issue of "ok, he botted, kicking him." Maybe in your world there's only black and white, but the problem is ingwe's got a lot of friends in the shell, been in a long time, and has a lot of stuff (over time, unrelated to claiming in DA). I've got to give him the benefit of the doubt for as long as it's tolerable, and that's reality. I'm perfectly fine with competing without bots (like I said, it's hard for me to even tell the difference with people deleting the darter dat and just spamming, but maybe my comp is just that slow), so option 2 doesn't work, and option 1 is reality, but given ingwe's stature in the ls in terms of time put in, can't just boot him out the door after 1 warning.

It's the candid truth, and all I can offer.

[Credos]

Maybe in your world there's only black and white, but the problem is ingwe's got a lot of friends in the shell, been in a long time, and has a lot of stuff (over time, unrelated to claiming in DA). I've got to give him the benefit of the doubt for as long as it's tolerable, and that's reality.

I think its safe to say that if Linkshell leaders took the stance that if you botted and were discovered you'd be kicked, that more people would think twice about botting. Friendships are understandable, but you have to remain objective when dealing with this bullshit. I'd kick my best friend from my LS if they were hacking claims; it'd break my heart to do so, but it would have to be done for the sake of the group.

When a leader starts making exceptions because of friendships, it's time to assess why that person is a leader in the first place.

[TrueZero]

When a leader starts making exceptions because of friendships, it's time to assess why that person is a leader in the first place.

I'm not sure where you got the idea leaders were friends with him, it's an issue of a lot of people genuinely liking the guy. I've got no strong opinion of him on a personal level, but if a significant number of people like him (not to mention he has a lot of gear completely unrelated to botting, kicking him is tough, though doable) the backlash from that might make things somewhat hairy. I'm not really going to get into intralinkshell shit like that though, save what I feel I need to say.

[Credos]

When a leader starts making exceptions because of friendships, it's time to assess why that person is a leader in the first place.

I'm not sure where you got the idea leaders were friends with him, it's an issue of a lot of people genuinely liking the guy. I've got no strong opinion of him on a personal level, but if a significant number of people like him (not to mention he has a lot of gear completely unrelated to botting, kicking him is tough, though doable) the backlash from that might make things somewhat hairy. I'm not really going to get into intralinkshell shit like that though, save what I feel I need to say.

I just got that impression because you said he's "got a lot of friends in the shell, been in a long time, etc." I'm not saying that I can't empathize with the situation. It's really hard to say what the right thing is to do; do you kick him for botting, and possibly piss off a lot of people, or do you reprimand the person, keep him in the LS and keep people happy? I'd say that if you decided to keep the person in the shell then you'd need to take them down a few pegs on things, just to set an example that botting isn't tolerated.

I still stand by my comment that LS leaders should look at what the person did in the LS, objectively (as hard as that may be). The guy could feed whoppers to starvin marvins, but if he's breaking rules he's breaking rules.

[TrueZero]

I'd say that if you decided to keep the person in the shell then you'd need to take them down a few pegs on things, just to set an example that botting isn't tolerated.

This is something that's been discussed and implemented in one sense (not going to say specifically), but I can also say that since this thread I've got some ideas to change things a bit. Not sure why I bother, since I doubt anyone would really give me/us the benefit of the doubt, but since I claim to be an honest guy, I may as well pursue what I can to at least uphold that.

[Machazareel]

I can understand not wanting to remove Ingwe, tbh. He may bot, but he's a damn likeable guy. Short of the botting, I don't have a single bad thing to say about him, and I've known him a very long time.

[Ayn]

No matter how likeable a person is, it's not worth having the reputation of your shell dragged to the ground, or people giving otherwise decent individuals shit because of someone's thoughtless actions.

This thread suceeded in the usual derail but ultimately fails because half the participants uses the same excuses and whines that have been discussed ad nausem on this board for many months.

No, you fail.

[Syng]

I highly doubt that kicking Ingwe from the LS is going to erase people's opinions of us. To them, we'll still be botters, cheaters and "zergers" so damned if we do, damned if we don't rly.