Maxium Enmity

[Tyche]

Why does SMN sub lose?

More often than any other sub the WHMs in my LS use /SMN at LS events, I don't think there's a single commonly faught HNM in this game where Shining Ruby doesn't benefit the tank PT. That alone is a good enough reason IMO.

The only reasonable explanation for /BLM that comes to mind is Conserve MP, but I'm doubtful it would really save much more (if any) MP over time than /SMN refresh. Typically a WHM isn't casting spells non-stop to begin with (which puts a consistant refresh as a higher benefit), and even when they are they're much lower MP cost on average which just makes the trait it even weaker. Or, at least that all applies for the experiences with in my LS.

And yeah, also agree with Tyche's statement where if you're pulling hate with over -30 Enmity then there's probably something wrong with your tanks/strategy.

Ruke beat me to it whilst i was asleep. Shining Ruby, iirc, adds 10MDB. Add that to the fact that i don't really spend a whole lot of time curing due to the fact that we use PLD/NIN a lot. Other than spot heals, ill just buff and bars. Quite a bit of idle time.

[juilan]

I'm actually not 100% sure of her gear off my head, but a WHM friend of mine has a max of like -60 wearing mostly normal WHM gear . But, most of the time she uses around -40 or so and that's more than enough to get the job done.

What she can get away with during a fight is pretty unbelievable though, personally I've never seen her pull hate outside of near wipes when no one else is left. In the mean time she'll use Benediction's and Curagas, etc, and still never pull hate as a tank PT WHM that never logs off. It's great, lol.

im going to see if i can best that or atleast get around -55 and see i cant get away with using afew benediction in an JoL fight XD

[Miruka]

im going to see if i can best that or atleast get around -55 and see i cant get away with using afew benediction in an JoL fight XD

Just wondering, but your LS isn't like, tanking JoL in melee/TP range with PLD/WARs, right? Because I've Benediction'd for around 5k with -25 Enmity (like 20minutes in or so) and not pulled hate. Doesn't say a whole much outside of context, but still, it sounds like something's odd if you feel like you need that much.

[RKenshin]

Yeah.. As Miruka pointed out the strength of your tank PT will probably have an even larger effect on what you can get away with as a WHM than your gear would. It's probably important to keep in mind that for the WHM I described in my post, the tank PT is almost always just about top notch.

That, and she usually only idles in somewhere around 30-40 enmity and it's more than enough. I'd suspect the same would hold true for any other WHM as long as the tank PT is well-built.

I'll try to get her to post here, she can probably give better details than I can. D:

[juilan]

i think afew of my leaders are trying to gear for zergs and endurence fights i think one of them wants me to try whm/nin with cure potency +37 in afew fights but only when it would be useful.
im trying to see what i can so i dont turn hate, there is one whm in my ls that has turned hate on suzy after a chain spell stun and before the rdm died >.>; i want to avoid something like that at all costs ^^

[RKenshin]

Actually she's been wanting to play with WHM/NIN too, just as an alternative to /SMN in some situations lol.

I forgot the exact stats, but she still had like high 9xx MP or so. Then, with Templar Mace and the Aspeewhatever she gains more Cure potency. I think it'd be kind of cool to see.

[juilan]

Actually she's been wanting to play with WHM/NIN too, just as an alternative to /SMN in some situations lol.

I forgot the exact stats, but she still had like high 9xx MP or so. Then, with Templar Mace and the Aspeewhatever she gains more Cure potency. I think it'd be kind of cool to see.

i gave it a look and in enmity down gear i have about 980hp and 1k mp XD
although i migh change it around alittle more since i have 3 shadows and as a lv 60 nin i can count them well >.>;

[yrpaine]

Actually she's been wanting to play with WHM/NIN too, just as an alternative to /SMN in some situations lol.

I forgot the exact stats, but she still had like high 9xx MP or so. Then, with Templar Mace and the Aspeewhatever she gains more Cure potency. I think it'd be kind of cool to see.

i gave it a look and in enmity down gear i have about 980hp and 1k mp XD
although i migh change it around alittle more since i have 3 shadows and as a lv 60 nin i can count them well >.>;

Taru whm in my ls is able to go whm/nin and have about 900hp and 1337 mp with food and have +15% cure potency with 2x club, I forget how much -enmity he used though.

[Tyche]

Ive done the WHM/NIN thing, and,other than some great e-peen cures, it doesnt hold a whole lot of practicality. I use it for bahamut v2, and that's about it now. Even then, i dual the R2 rod for when "shit" happens. It should be also noted, that a lot depends on what your LS uses to tank. My LS is predominately PLD tanks on endurance fights, so i don't do a whole lot of healing. Even when we do NIN tank, they co-tank with PLDs who love to burn through MP. Valor bodies and that one earring (the name just eluded me), makes for happy hate-holding PLDs and lazy ass WHMs.

[juilan]

Valor bodies and that one earring (the name just eluded me), makes for happy hate-holding PLDs and lazy ass WHMs.

Ethereal Earring, i have one becase . . . i have a higher chance of getting hit during an edurance fight then i would having 20 mp earring (note i also have two thirdy mp earrings)
sadly i did a little mroe research and i can only have -40 enmity with a novia earring without dynamis tav gear or HQs >.< and since i have more then one job (whm being main) i cant REALLY put that much into the gear (NQ is just fine ^^) but i was questioning a cap to minium emnity XD

[Solefald]

-30 enmity should be enough for just about anything, but if you need more, sub drg. High Jump will keep your hate down to hardly anything. I still sub it for wyrm fights more out of habit than necessity these days, but it is a fun sub and makes a huge impact on enmity.

Nin sub is great for Dynamis, Limbus, Baha2, and any other time Utsusemi can eat AOEs.

I've never seen a use for smn sub, you run out of mp faster than /blm and Shining Ruby has a long cast time and wears off quickly. Aerial Armor is completely useless unless you're stuck in a time vortex circa August 2004.

[Tyche]

The difference in autorefresh and conserve MP is negligible unless you are spamming high cost spells, not that MP is an issue in most any fight for me. Understand, ive stated that curing is minimal because we use cure spamming PLDs on endurance fights. As for shining ruby, it lasts three minutes. Not a big deal considering it literally negates about 8% of magic damage taken for only about 50ish MP. BLM is perfectly viable, i just feel the benefits outweigh the negatives when using /SMN vs /BLM.