Ninja Endgame Katana Question

[SassiAsura]

Wouldn't the U/U combo acheive 100TP before the Senj/Fudo anyways. What with the number of hits to 100 having a difference of 2 hits or something and the U/U having such a short delay?

[layoneil]

delay lowers TP gain per hit.

delay/dual wield/martial arts has no effect on TP gain.

haste/slow does.

i use Senj/Fudo cause i'm cheap and never really play NIN for DD. i probably spend more time using Mamushito+1s.

[Zilong]

2 or more NIN dual wielding Mamushito+1 on merit party is like the most awesome shit ever.

[Demitrius]

I use Senj/Unji, which is my personal favorite. Senju mainhanded gives you about the same Jin damage and crit % as offhanding Fudo, and you gain extra mods and attack speed from Unji without negating your WS damage. I don't personally get U/U, you're ganking your mainhand base damage and crit rate (which is huge in Jin) for a small increase in attack speed. You lose a tiny bit of everything in exchange for offhand speed, but a lot of everything in exchange for mainhand speed. So I took the offhand speed.

[Sci]

S/F isn't 5 TP per hit anymore either, unless you're not using any dual wield gear (unlikely since most use NINs at least use Suppanommi) and wearing at least +5 to +7 Store TP gear. Even 4.9 TP per hit would make you fall short of 100% TP.

Under a situation most NINs are, with one extra dual wield bonus and +6 store TP from Rajas/Brutal, S/F is 21 hits to 100 TP, S/U is 21 hits to 100 TP, and U/U is 22 hits. UU and SF also get to 100 TP faster than S/F by over an attack round. The dual wield adjustment didn't just effect U/U, it effects all katanas.

You're right about 4.9 TP making you fall short of 100 when you start from 0, but usually you're starting from 12 (I think, been months since I merited) after a Blade Jin (Assuming you swap out your Suppanomimi and you have some +Store TP from Rajas + Brutal). Then it's 18 hits to 100 for S/F and 20 hits for U/U. And 18 swings from S/F pretty much takes just as long as 20 from U/U. At any rate... it's close, even if you try to play with the numbers either way. You'll get 100 TP in very similar times with either combo. So to me it's more about your average DoT and WS dmg. And even that will be too close to pick a "best combo".

[SassiAsura]

Improper use of the term Ganking but we'll let it slide.

[Demitrius]

It's a gank because you're using billions of brain cells to stage a massacre on your Jin damage

[RKenshin]

I don't personally get U/U, you're ganking your mainhand base damage and crit rate (which is huge in Jin) for a small increase in attack speed. You lose a tiny bit of everything in exchange for offhand speed, but a lot of everything in exchange for mainhand speed. So I took the offhand speed.

Eh, it ends up being a small difference both ways. Using U/U my average damage per hit only falls by like 3 points, and WS average really isn't much different. My WS average usually hovers between 600-750 depending on the buffs/mobs.

In exchange for the above I'm getting what's basically an uncapped 11.5% Haste over S/U and 23% Haste over S/F, which would roughly work out to getting 11.5%/23% more attacks than those combinations, and close to that % more weapon skills from the faster TP gain.

[Demitrius]

I guess it just comes down to a matter of preference. Some people get their e-peen from 1500+ Jins, some get it from Hundred Katanas

[Grey Jorildyn]

Jin is 4 hit, Senj would be 3 of the hits, Fudo would be 1.

Delivers a threefold attack. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.

orly?

Oh wow, lol. While dualwielding you get an extra hit for your offhand.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93...el/parse-1.jpg

Neophytal = BB MNK, fully meritted.

Hailie = Ridill War, not sure on merits, and no adaman hauberk.

I'll stick with my Senj/Unji =) Even if the damage difference is minimal, swinging fast is fun (I'd get an unsho but I have more important things to worry about)

you realize this parse is less than 60 battles right? that means it's garbage. hell i don't even think you fought VT/IT mobs lol

m.avg of 115? hit% 100? what are you fighting? Easy Prey mobs? this tells us nothing.

[Celeras]

I usually use Senj/Unji, but more often then not I just end up leaving my Mamushito+1 on, unless im in a hardcore merit party or something. That stun is addicting, and I climax a little bit everytime it goes off.

[Btight]

Jin is 4 hit, Senj would be 3 of the hits, Fudo would be 1.

Delivers a threefold attack. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.

orly?

Oh wow, lol. While dualwielding you get an extra hit for your offhand.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93...el/parse-1.jpg

Neophytal = BB MNK, fully meritted.

Hailie = Ridill War, not sure on merits, and no adaman hauberk.

I'll stick with my Senj/Unji =) Even if the damage difference is minimal, swinging fast is fun (I'd get an unsho but I have more important things to worry about)

you realize this parse is less than 60 battles right? that means it's garbage. hell i don't even think you fought VT/IT mobs lol

m.avg of 115? hit% 100? what are you fighting? Easy Prey mobs? this tells us nothing.

As he said, he has filters set on for party, so instead of giving him an accurate reading of others' accuracy, it just lists it as 100%. His accuracy is the only one that's valid, which I believe shows 72% or something? And as I think he mentioned before Jedimind was DRK/WAR, so probably using a Scythe or Gsword, therefore why the M.Avg would be >100.

[aurik]

Jin is 4 hit, Senj would be 3 of the hits, Fudo would be 1.

Delivers a threefold attack. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.

orly?

Oh wow, lol. While dualwielding you get an extra hit for your offhand.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93...el/parse-1.jpg

Neophytal = BB MNK, fully meritted.

Hailie = Ridill War, not sure on merits, and no adaman hauberk.

I'll stick with my Senj/Unji =) Even if the damage difference is minimal, swinging fast is fun (I'd get an unsho but I have more important things to worry about)

you realize this parse is less than 60 battles right? that means it's garbage. hell i don't even think you fought VT/IT mobs lol

m.avg of 115? hit% 100? what are you fighting? Easy Prey mobs? this tells us nothing.

As he said, he has filters set on for party, so instead of giving him an accurate reading of others' accuracy, it just lists it as 100%. His accuracy is the only one that's valid, which I believe shows 72% or something? And as I think he mentioned before Jedimind was DRK/WAR, so probably using a Scythe or Gsword, therefore why the M.Avg would be >100.

M.Hit for the nin 72 = using meat?
M.Avg for the mnk only 54 = using sushi?

[Eulore]

[quote=aurik]

Jin is 4 hit, Senj would be 3 of the hits, Fudo would be 1.

Delivers a threefold attack. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.

orly?

Oh wow, lol. While dualwielding you get an extra hit for your offhand.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93...el/parse-1.jpg

Neophytal = BB MNK, fully meritted.

Hailie = Ridill War, not sure on merits, and no adaman hauberk.

I'll stick with my Senj/Unji =) Even if the damage difference is minimal, swinging fast is fun (I'd get an unsho but I have more important things to worry about)

you realize this parse is less than 60 battles right? that means it's garbage. hell i don't even think you fought VT/IT mobs lol

m.avg of 115? hit% 100? what are you fighting? Easy Prey mobs? this tells us nothing.

As he said, he has filters set on for party, so instead of giving him an accurate reading of others' accuracy, it just lists it as 100%. His accuracy is the only one that's valid, which I believe shows 72% or something? And as I think he mentioned before Jedimind was DRK/WAR, so probably using a Scythe or Gsword, therefore why the M.Avg would be >100.

M.Hit for the nin 72 = using meat?
M.Avg for the mnk only 54 = using sushi?[/quote:5754c]

We were both using sushi. Like I said before, the accuracy isn't really accurate because flashga lowers the parsed hit rate, my accuracy is much higher than 72%. I use sushi, I'd hope I'd hit more than 42 average with meat >.>

and I'm not sure what the mnk was eatting.

[TsingTao]

At less than 54dam for M.Avg I'm gonna take a wild guess it was Sushi for the Monk as well.

[RKenshin]

Was there not a BRD in that PT?

[Eulore]

Was there not a BRD in that PT?

There was, but wasn't the greatest bard. Played Minuet and March, but there were a few times songs would go down and usually wouldn't play madrigal for THF/NIN mobs.

[Stellar]

Senj/Fudo? Well shit, lets melee in Shura head and Warwolf belt because it might make me do more damage per swing.. I've yet to meet a really experienced Ninja still using Senj/Fudo..

[RKenshin]

@Eulore, considering you were at the north camp songs were probably dispelled often from Skoffins as well, that probably had just as big of an effect.

@Stellar, I agree... I don't know of any at all personally. The best NINs I've PTed with are either Senji/Unji or Unji/Unsho (or Kikoku/Unsho, lol), although that doesn't say a lot because (whether by coincidence or whatever) all the S/F NINs I remember PTing with were pretty horrid.

[Sci]

Senj/Fudo? Well shit, lets melee in Shura head and Warwolf belt because it might make me do more damage per swing.. I've yet to meet a really experienced Ninja still using Senj/Fudo..

It's certainly not that cut and dry. If delay is truly king and base DMG doesn't matter, then hell, why not give up a few more points and use Hayabusa. No wait, that's dumb. There's Kitsutsuki which is even lower delay, that's clearly the best katana. Totally gonna use Kitsutsuki/Hototogisu at lvl75. Ninja's dagger skill isn't that bad, might even get away offhanding a Hornetneedle.

Yeah, those cases are a bit extreme, but how much base damage is acceptable to give up for shorter delay? Unless you're trying to argue that Senj/Unji is the only way to go, which is fine because you're not gimping your WS dmg with a low dmg main hand. But Blade Jin damage is going to be very similiar to Senj/Fudo because of just the offhand hit.