Ninja Endgame Katana Question

[RKenshin]

Stop acting like your the best DD ninja in the entire game. You don't even have katana merits. I have no question in my mind that you know how to DD, and I'm sure that U/U works best for you. But really you have no right to call Senj/Fudo users the "worst nins i've seen." That's the most absurd accusation I've ever heard. Katanas don't make or break the ninja, and they don't turn a bad ninja into a good one or vice versa. But having merits, equipment, skill and experience, are going to make you a good ninja (DD or otherwise), than what katana you main/offhand.

Also, consider that this game isn't all about efficiency. While I'll agree it's fun to parse and tweak your equipment and merits to build a good DD, the point here is to have fun with what you use. I personally didn't like ninja DD until around level 66 when Kororito+1's came into play. I liked the higher base damage, and I don't think I would ever go back to a lower base damage weapon simply because that's not what I prefer.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b148/ ... liment.jpg

I use Senj/Fudo. Senj/Unji, or U/U just wasn't for me. Use whatever katanas that fit you, your equip, and your merits.

What the hell are you talking about man? lol Are you even reading?

No seriously, where in any of my posts am I saying I'm the best NIN? I never call myself the best at anything, nor do I refer to myself in that regard, ever. I'm basing everything I've said in this thread off of my personal experiences and parses in exp PTs just like most other people here, and before anyone else assumes a majority of those exp PTs are on my WAR/NIN.

The fact of the matter is, is in all of my 270 or whatever merits (which is quite a damn lot of experience), nearly all (if not all) of the Senji/Fudo DD NINs I've run into have had horrible damage output whether by coincidence of their katana combination or not. The only NINs I've PTed with that had high output used Senji/Unji or Unji/Unsho (or Kikoku/U), and that has nothing to do with my DD NIN at all. So I don't see where you think I'm talking about my NIN 'being the best DD in the game' for any aspect of this argument.

I don't care how upset it makes you, but the fact still remains... All the worst DD NINs I've PTed with used Senji/Fudo, and nothing you say changes that. Does that necessarily mean Senji/Fudo is the worst combination? No, and I'm not saying that. But, what it does mean is there obviously is nothing wrong with using U/U or Senji/Unji, which is and always was my exact point from the very beginning. I'm not here to flame Senji/Fudo, I'm here defending U/U and Senji/Unji from flamers like the person I quoted who thinks that you're mentally retarded and/or lieing if you think anything competes with Senji/Fudo, which is a load of bullshit.

But, I guess you agree with him? Because after all, you just flamed my post for my response to him.

And honestly, not to brag but since you've gone down that road, if I tried to make a collage of all the compliments I've received it'd take hours and probably just be too damn big, as I'm sure the same would hold true for many many other people here and in the game in general. But you know what, that really has nothing to do with anything in this argument... Not to mention, by posting that collage you're the only one here that appears to be full of themself, as you implied towards me initially. (lol@the irony)

Saddest part is we're basically making the same point in regards to katana combinations, but it seems like you missed it.

In the end, it's a small difference anyway. They all have advantages and disadvantages, whatever you choose won't make or break you as much as other gear/merits/food choices would.

Edit@500 typos, 5 AM.

[XxSlusherxx]

All the worse NINs I've PTed with were Senji/Fudo or Mamux2

Good thing I use mamu+1 offhand 8)

But seriously it's for the utility, because if I really care about damage I wouldn't top my own war anyway. Stellar uses Unji offhand, which pretty much seals the deal for me on this topic, he's far and away the best ninja I've ever seen.

[Credos]

I have a Mamu +1 that I use mainly when soloing, but I'd never bring it to an exp PT. Just my personal taste. As its been said before, just because you have U/U or Senji/U doesn't make you this amazing NIN that outparses everyone else. NIN is in my opinion the single most gear reliant job in the game in regards to maximizing potential.

Here is my gear build (WS):

Senji
Unji
Lightning Bow +1
Shura Kabuto
Breeze Gorget
Minuet Earring
Merman's earring
Kirin's Osode (mire) / Haubergeon (Thickets and other places IT)
Ninja Tekko +1 / Ochiudo's Kote
Rajas Ring
Flame Ring / Sniper's Ring (Depending on level of mobs I may stick with extra ACC)
Amemet Mantle +1
Warwolf Belt
Byakko's Haidate
Rutter Sabatons

It's early, but I have somewhere around +43 STR and +55 DEX on my WS build. I used to be of the mindset to load on STR and DEX, but the ACC on my WS was pretty shitty. Then I opted to put in some more ACC and it's helped boost my damage well.

Honestly I've tried pretty much every combo there is on NIN apart from U/U and U/Kikoku and I've recieved the best results from Senji / Unji.

[Ishido]

I would post some long argument... but Ruke has said everything that needs to be said.

I really want to get an Unsho to play around with, but sadly I have other things that are higher priority to buy right now. Also just got Ace's Helm so I'll probably be playing SAM more than NIN for awhile.

[Damen]

a = worst nins
b = senj fudo nins

a belongs to b.
not all of b belongs to a.

logic ftw.

i'm just beginning nin merits, but senj/unji works better than /fudo for me.

I think Swatt pretty much sums it up. I read your post as a personal attack as calling all senj/fudos users the 'worst ninjas' and the first thing that came to my mind was GTFO, especially since choice of katanas is negligable at best. Sorry for the confusion. It was late when I posted as well.

[Zilong]

I would post some long argument... but Ruke has said everything that needs to be said.

I really want to get an Unsho to play around with, but sadly I have other things that are higher priority to buy right now. Also just got Ace's Helm so I'll probably be playing SAM more than NIN for awhile.

Hayabusa would probably emulate the experience if you just want to play around

[RKenshin]

I think Swatt pretty much sums it up. I read your post as a personal attack as calling all senj/fudos users the 'worst ninjas' and the first thing that came to my mind was GTFO, especially since choice of katanas is negligable at best. Sorry for the confusion. It was late when I posted as well.

Yes, lol... I thought you must've misunderstood, didn't really understand why I was being attacked. D:

It's fine, it happens.

[Ishido]

I would post some long argument... but Ruke has said everything that needs to be said.

I really want to get an Unsho to play around with, but sadly I have other things that are higher priority to buy right now. Also just got Ace's Helm so I'll probably be playing SAM more than NIN for awhile.

Hayabusa would probably emulate the experience if you just want to play around

I have Kitsutsuki and Hototogisu for low delay fun, I meant 'play around' as in merit a little bit and see how they do. Thanks for the suggestion though, lol

I think it's funny when people get really angry after someone insults one of the top katana combos, when it's nearly impossible to prove which combo would be best. There are way too many variables in action to get an accurate test, sadly.

[Ehran]

Can you post some proof? I'd like to see it, and your other gear. Oh, and the mobs you fought, too.

Koga Tekko at night:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6...es05te4.th.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2...es06ov3.th.jpg

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/9...es07tt4.th.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1...es08mi0.th.jpg

AF+1:

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2...es01hb7.th.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3...es02vv1.th.jpg

http://img344.imageshack.us/img344/1...es04jz7.th.jpg

and my personal favorite from Saturday -

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4...ve04bc1.th.jpg

Those are just some of the highlights I found leafing through the screenshots. I had to separate the other numbers by hand, but this is what I came up with:

Koga Tekko
Total Damage: 50517
Number of WS: 74
Average damage: 682
Max damage: 1185 (13% TP return)
Min damage: 298

AF+1 Tekko
Total Damage: 66166
Number of WS: 87
Average damage: 760
Max damage: 1247 (13% TP return)
Min damage: 344

[Stilgar]

You got those numbers with this setup you listed before, right?

Katanas: Senj/Unji
Ammo: Bomb Core
Head: Shura Kabuto
Neck: Breeze Gorget
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Suppa
Body: Hauby
Hands: Koga Tekko / AF+1 / B. Kotes (depending on party setup)
Ring1: Flame Ring
Ring2: Rajas
Back: Ametmet +1
Belt: Warwolf
Legs: Byakko's
Feet: Fuma Sune-Ate

I also have maxed STR/Katana/Critical hit rate merits.

I can see from your results that AF+1 is apparently better with this setup. What race are you? I don't see how adding 6 str and 6 dex could be better than just adding 11 str unless your total str is far less than your total dex. The only place dex figures into your WS damage will be as a secondary mod, and in this case str and dex are both multiplied by 30%. Sure, 6 of one and 6 of another is 12, and 12 > 11, but one point of either at 30% shouldn't amount to beans.

Let me know if I'm making a gross error using the damage forumula here.

[Zilong]

You got those numbers with this setup you listed before, right?

Katanas: Senj/Unji
Ammo: Bomb Core
Head: Shura Kabuto
Neck: Breeze Gorget
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Suppa
Body: Hauby
Hands: Koga Tekko / AF+1 / B. Kotes (depending on party setup)
Ring1: Flame Ring
Ring2: Rajas
Back: Ametmet +1
Belt: Warwolf
Legs: Byakko's
Feet: Fuma Sune-Ate

I also have maxed STR/Katana/Critical hit rate merits.

I can see from your results that AF+1 is apparently better with this setup. What race are you? I don't see how adding 6 str and 6 dex could be better than just adding 11 str unless your total str is far less than your total dex. The only place dex figures into your WS damage will be as a secondary mod, and in this case str and dex are both multiplied by 30%. Sure, 6 of one and 6 of another is 12, and 12 > 11, but one point of either at 30% shouldn't amount to beans.

Let me know if I'm making a gross error using the damage forumula here.

Actually, it's quite the opposite.

6 STR and 6 DEX > 11 STR if your STR value is high enough to cap the FSTR cap of katana (which is lower than most weapon due to its low damage rating)

[Dibond]

The only truly plausible reason to suggest that S/F is a good combination is going from a melee hits perspective.

While S/U and UU put out far more and better Jins its been my observation that most of the damage done in a meripo is from the normal melee hits, and F is a far superior meleeing katana over either of the Us.

Whether this makes up for the big drop off in ws damage/quantity is hard to nail down even from extensive parsing. The only real way to figure out whether any of these katanas works best in your meripo build is to test it yourself with a fairly static meripo group.

As for why most S/F users are shitty in meripo, its because its the cheapest combo, and cheaper ninjas use it.

In the end if you get 20-25k merits per hour who really cares about the epeen parse win anymore.

[Bluedemon]

I've tried all 3 combos (U/U, S/U, S/F) unparsed but got the general feeling that S/U and S/F are the most damaging and its pretty hard to tell the two combo's apart damage wise.

U/U was by far the most fun followed by S/U which is the combo I currently use. S/F is a great set and I have nothing bad to say about it at all. I just enjoy swinging faster and I can't xp if I'm not enjoying it.

[Eulore]

With the EXACT same gear but just switching weapons, Senj/Fudo rapes all other katana combo, you're nuts if you think otherwise. Don't test yourself versus another who's using the different katana setup, test vs yourself and you'll see.

Ok, I did, and my results support everything I've said.

Funny too how just about all the best equiped/meritted NINs I know get the same results as well... NIN's on my server like Keichan, Baudan, Miruka, and NIN's on other servers like Kisada, Stellar, etc. Meanwhile, all the worst NINs I've seen use either Mamux2 or Senji/Fudo.

Guess it's just all in my head.

Pfft. Kisada rolls Kikoku/Unji. That's Gangster.

[Koyangi]

the crit hit bonus on s/f and base dmg alone makes jin's better, I've seen same nin with uber gear use jins on both weapon sets, consistently do higher jin's with s/f.

[Stilgar]

the crit hit bonus on s/f and base dmg alone makes jin's better, I've seen same nin with uber gear use jins on both weapon sets, consistently do higher jin's with s/f.

Goddamn, that is some rock-solid, water-tight evidence right there.

CASE CLOSED EVERYONE, MOVE ALONG NOW, NOTHING TO SEE HERE

[Celeras]

the crit hit bonus on s/f and base dmg alone makes jin's better, I've seen same nin with uber gear use jins on both weapon sets, consistently do higher jin's with s/f.

Goddamn, that is some rock-solid, water-tight evidence right there.

CASE CLOSED EVERYONE, MOVE ALONG NOW, NOTHING TO SEE HERE

He's right, you're both idiots.

Nobody is disputing that S/F will give better WS damage, thats a given. But the damage over time is better with S/U, and thats why its the better combination.

[Krandor]

All the arguing in this thread made me decide to test out the difference between my Fudo and freshly bought Unji

[Machazareel]

They're about the same, really. >_>

Tried em all, no discernable difference in performance for me, so I just kept the one that allowed me to have more cash in my pocket (*'-')b

[Stilgar]

Who's right? Who are both idiots? If you're going to make a statement or an insult at least say it in such a way that we know who and what you're talking about.