6 man Cerberus and Jorm (on Page 7)

[Snowknight26]

The bigger the mob the longer the casting range.
Edit: Oops, didn\'t know there was page 2 or 3.

[Lockecole]

I'm 8/8 HP merits and don't have a ton of MP gear, more enmity geared so the only spells I will use are Sleep 1 / Stun / Bind

Those by themselves can hold enough hate solo tank, if you're trying to tank a mob like JoL where you will have 6-10 BLM nuking it to hell and are trying to hold hate even with another tank (PLD/NIN can generate alot more hate on this fight from -ga's >> cure themselves spam) then what I just do is conserve my JA's.

I try to keep it so a stun > sleep combo can take hate, but if say thundaga III just lands and PLD cure IV himself then Rampart I will definitely need to pop souleater and maybe last resort to keep hate from getting too one-sided.

If you have MP merits and some MP gear I'd try to stick to aiming to keep hate only with spells, it's safer than relying on JA timers, but sometimes is necessary no matter what setup

Also, I use San spells to help hate a small bit too, its not much but unresisted they pull some nice hate.

Go NIN/BRD if you have to go NIN at all.. but shadows are pretty much a waste on JoL. More than 50% of his spells are AoE, and hate can be regained by curing when they arent anyway. I tanked the last JoL as RDM/BRD, with -emnity merits. Chainspell mazurka to open the fight, and the DRK's and /DRK's can start DDing straight away, full steam and no chance of getting hate. No reason for even PLD to go /nin - much better off to go PLD/WHM for MDB and curaga, /RDM for Phalanx, or /BRD for limitless hate. Its also a lot less work than /DRK - 1 spell every 9 seconds instead of spamming and requiring MP.

And you are right on the size of the mob affecting cast range - all the bigger models in the game can be cast on from slightly longer range, it applies to all the mobs in the game.

I've THF/DRKed Bahamut...and I can tell you without a doubt I can stand much further from him and still cast. Size definately has a factor on casting distances.

Also I'd like to comment that even though Cerb's AOEs are 20, Im pretty sure Gates is slightly larger than 20. I know its possible to not be in Ululation range and still get hit by gates, so keep that in mind.

[Lylie]

If I would enlarge all my .dat, I could just cast from farther? It still doesnt make sense. Every positioning in this game is calculated from the center of your model.

I don't have any mage jobs leveled and I don't have the distance plugin so take what I say with a grain of salt. By I went by what other people wrote like

Max cast range is usually around 21.0, but on larger monsters it is occasionally longer. For example, in limbus you can cast at 23.0 or possibly even 24.0 on the Behemoths.

which seems to support my statement. Also, it is impossible to to disregard the bounding box of a mob completely. As melee you can't stand inside a mob but you still have to be able to be in melee range.

It would in fact be interesting to see what happens if you increase the size of mobs with dats. Maybe the client would allow you to cast a spell, but the server would object. I remember there being 2 different out of range messages, maybe thats 2 different checks.

Why do you keep arguing if you don't have Distance Pluging?

Go try to cast anything on an UFO at 21.1 or more, and we'll see who's right. Size doesn't affect your casting distance, maybe some mobs or zones (such as Limbus?) do, but Idk.

[layoneil]

every mob has a core where your cursor goes, that's where the distance plug-in would measure from.

but also every mob has a radius of how big it is (that's a static number based on the default model and independent of the local .dat)

the radius is really what you should judge casting range by.

Go try to cast anything on an UFO at 21.1 or more, and we'll see who's right. Size doesn't affect your casting distance, maybe some mobs or zones (such as Limbus?) do, but Idk.

don't use the UFO as an example, the UFO actually has a very small radius (because they are just counting the stem).

use something like Byakko that's very long or grand wyrms, behemoths, etc that are both long and wide.

[Lordwafik]

If I would enlarge all my .dat, I could just cast from farther? It still doesnt make sense. Every positioning in this game is calculated from the center of your model.

I don't have any mage jobs leveled and I don't have the distance plugin so take what I say with a grain of salt. By I went by what other people wrote like

Max cast range is usually around 21.0, but on larger monsters it is occasionally longer. For example, in limbus you can cast at 23.0 or possibly even 24.0 on the Behemoths.

which seems to support my statement. Also, it is impossible to to disregard the bounding box of a mob completely. As melee you can't stand inside a mob but you still have to be able to be in melee range.

It would in fact be interesting to see what happens if you increase the size of mobs with dats. Maybe the client would allow you to cast a spell, but the server would object. I remember there being 2 different out of range messages, maybe thats 2 different checks.

Why do you keep arguing if you don't have Distance Pluging?

Go try to cast anything on an UFO at 21.1 or more, and we'll see who's right. Size doesn't affect your casting distance, maybe some mobs or zones (such as Limbus?) do, but Idk.

Uh go fight a giant mob and you'll see what everyone is saying about casting length.

There seems to be a hard cap of 20 minimum, but the bigger the mob, the bigger the scale of it's bounding box where you can hit/cast from. Im sure Yovra was 23. Try other big mobs.

Not too sure on the ufo but i'll double check it after this euvhi now.

[threevo]

Also I'd like to comment that even though Cerb's AOEs are 20, Im pretty sure Gates is slightly larger than 20. I know its possible to not be in Ululation range and still get hit by gates, so keep that in mind.

are you sure that isnt backwards? ive never once got hit by gates when out of ululation range

[Lordwafik]

I knew it, I was right.

Unfortunately I have windower setup to hide plugins on SS, but I wrote them down in the SS.

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2...gravityaj2.jpg

Yovra's max distance to cast on it was 21.7, I could not cast at 21.8, but anything before that was just fine.

yayaloldalmaticaenfeeble was in a rush

[Kaylia]

I knew it, I was right.

Unfortunately I have windower setup to hide plugins on SS, but I wrote them down in the SS.

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2961 ... ityaj2.jpg[/img]

Yovra's max distance to cast on it was 21.7, I could not cast at 21.8, but anything before that was just fine.

yayaloldalmaticaenfeeble was in a rush

Didnt think about Yovra. Was waiting for fafnir tonight to test it


I've one question tho. Is it possible Yovra count as "small" monsters. Big monsters tend to glitch with pathfinding, but yovra, like most flying monsters seem to cut sharp when there is a corner (can still outrun them easily, but some mobs are 100 times more retarded).

Personally, I never noticed it going above 21.7, but I'm rarely paying attention to that on HNM

[Glade``]

To the best of my knowledge, you can also meele larger model mobs at a farther distance than normal. I remember hitting Fafnir at ~6-7 distance, then being OOR a few hours latter on a sea puk at ~4-5 distance. What confuses me is that the maximum distance for ranged attack has always been 24 regardless of the size of the monster, yet the distance formula changes for meele and casting somehow?

[Solar]

When I went NIN/DRK on Cerb nearly all my binds landed as well, I got a huge kick out of it also.

I usually can't lind bind on EP's /drk but all the time on cerb, so much sense.

Says the guy who went to JoL as NIN/DRK and tried to bind, poison, and even stun it to get hate, lol.

I'm certain (well pretty certain) that stun gets hate no matter if it gets resisted. I remember when a BLM was about to get eaten by Kirin, i'd stun spam him until he turned and tried to eat me.

edit: lolpup

[Lordwafik]

I knew it, I was right.

Unfortunately I have windower setup to hide plugins on SS, but I wrote them down in the SS.

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/2961 ... ityaj2.jpg[/img]

Yovra's max distance to cast on it was 21.7, I could not cast at 21.8, but anything before that was just fine.

yayaloldalmaticaenfeeble was in a rush

Didnt think about Yovra. Was waiting for fafnir tonight to test it


I've one question tho. Is it possible Yovra count as "small" monsters. Big monsters tend to glitch with pathfinding, but yovra, like most flying monsters seem to cut sharp when there is a corner (can still outrun them easily, but some mobs are 100 times more retarded).

Personally, I never noticed it going above 21.7, but I'm rarely paying attention to that on HNM

Yovra's don't count as small, the thing you're noticing is most of these mobs that glitch with path finding are uniquely shaped monsters (the front is different from the back). Think of a Dahak for this example, while other monsters like Yovra - they still kinda have this pathing problem, except we don't see them turn so retardedly because they are a circle shape, and it's not easy seeing them spin around while they're moving.

If you have an eye for detail you'll see it, otherwise it's not an important detail anyway.

What i've found with yovras is they like to ignore some terrain. However that's more to do with the monster's size/location in the server than the client, you'll notice that when you dat swap Hydra instead of carrie, he'll walk in carrie's style around everything, but if you did it the other way around he'd probably move freely across bigger terrains. Maybe there's a point where monsters ignore terrain because they're so big?

[Cat]

About GoH, i was standing at exactly 20.0 at cerb the other day, and did not get hit by a single uleuleuleuleAoE para move, and i didnt get hit by GoH either.

What i think the issue is here, is that Distance plugin calculates distance from the center of the mob, while 'Max range calculation algorithm' calculates distance from the edge of the mob.

I know for a fact that i have been able to cast at almost 25 range on big things like jorm/tia -etc.

[Lockecole]

About GoH, i was standing at exactly 20.0 at cerb the other day, and did not get hit by a single uleuleuleuleAoE para move, and i didnt get hit by GoH either.

What i think the issue is here, is that Distance plugin calculates distance from the center of the mob, while 'Max range calculation algorithm' calculates distance from the edge of the mob.

I know for a fact that i have been able to cast at almost 25 range on big things like jorm/tia -etc.

Hmm I dunno what happened then, maybe he moved a bit, or I just got within his range. Nvm then.

[Khamsin]

BRD has Gjallarhorn, WAR has Bravura.

That's why they wiped, he was using Bravura instead of Ridill!

And you are right on the size of the mob affecting cast range - all the bigger models in the game can be cast on from slightly longer range, it applies to all the mobs in the game.

Yeah, except for B2 though, I can't cast from farther away than normal on him. Though I have seen someone cast from 24ish before on him, not sure how, as I got out of range messages even at 21ish.

[Lylie]

Just tried a small mob while EXP'ing lolPLD.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7981/batsaw4.png

So between the size of a Bat and a Yovra, there's only .1

I know for a fact that i have been able to cast at almost 25 range on big things like jorm/tia -etc.

I demand picture 25.0 seems really far.

[Celeras]

I'm fairly confident this setup could kill from 100>0 if it doesn't spam Gates..

Because there is another part of Cerberus that is actually a challenge?

[Lockecole]

I'm fairly confident this setup could kill from 100>0 if it doesn't spam Gates..

Because there is another part of Cerberus that is actually a challenge?

Apparently Fire Elementals.

[darkshines]

okay then, quick example:

http://tshot.org/darkshines/cyno_distance.jpg

it's asleep in that screen (& therefore not moving), which you can probably tell from its pose.

I'm not sure if that's the max range, but it definitely proves that mob size does make a difference.

[Kuropiko]

Go NIN/BRD if you have to go NIN at all.. but shadows are pretty much a waste on JoL. More than 50% of his spells are AoE, and hate can be regained by curing when they arent anyway.

Yes, but Concussive Oscillation and Primal Drill are absorbed by shadows, then avoiding knock back, Gravity and Bind add effects. You still have other AoE and spells to build some more hate with cures on PLD/NIN.

It's not needed though since Love doesn't melee if you're tanking it from its border, so i guess /WAR is ok too (that's how we did our first Love and went smoothly).

On topic, i was thinking about the possibility of killing Cerb with something like PLD/NIN PLD/NIN WHM RDM/DRK BRD + 3 DRKs, which would be 8 people but since it has been done with 7 heh...

[Kaylia]

Only conclusion we can draw...is that fast cast increase your casting range.




Ok, guess I will back off from this thread. I hate being wrong, and I clearly was in my previous post about casting distance