Marriage, Relationships, Divorce and Children.

[Kenai]

I dont think that 15 is a good age to go by. I work for the juvenile courts, Public defenders office. All of our attornies can attest that a persons brain isnt developed fully at 15, its more like 18-21 like previously suggested in the thread. Girls are of course a little more ahead of the curve than boys, but not by much

Funny thing about that, people have always had the idea people around the age of 15 were scary, confused, impossible to understand indiviuals, no? "Zits" anyone?

@Kenai: You think people having to deal with problems instead of RUNNING FROM THEM is worse? The mindset back in those days was more of "that's what he/she is like" and the mindset these days is "he/she isn't who I want them to be". I think there was a better sense of honor/morals/justice/othervirtuesandstuff back then. Like Daahan said, I think that mindset was a lot more common back then, I don't hear that from people too much, I just see topics like "Fuck or duck?" Also our grandparents generation was from WW2, and I think they're quite different from from the parents generation of "free love" and "sex, drugs and rock and roll". I don't believe back then it was all Leave it to Beaver-like, but I think that things were better because there was more teaching at home going on as well as more beating of children.

No, I say staying together for the sake of staying together, because it "seems" like the right thing to do, is just not the case. Do you disagree that some problems are most definitely solved by the end of a relationship? Ending a relationship can be just as, or even more serious than starting one. Sometimes, it just does not work out. of course that isn't always the case, but things ARE situational.

Like I said, WW2 generation : at the time 2nd worst cases of race related incidents and riots reported short of the time when slaves were actually freed. Seems kind of odd for such outstanding, nobel folks and their perfect set of morals, right? These are the kinds of things people don't talk about, are really are hard to totally explain. Morals by people who want to uphold them are still the same, it's just that you can actually see the people who choose to do differently now, instead of just hearing about them as if they were fantasy. Constantly condemning society when we as people make up that society is kind of odd, no? Do you really think child abuse didn't exist back then? Who about drug abuse and alcoholism, they were certainly there. I can't believe some of the shit that went down in the 1950's, multi-racial people like me barely existed, God only knows how I would have been treated in school. These types of things all occured much more frequently than now, despite the idea that morals were supposedly so much better now than then, and supposedly followed more. Why is this I wonder?

[Intense]

Zits the sunday morning comic? Im not sure what your point was or if you were just joking around. But I'd say a typical 15 year old is self-centered/attention starved/confused about their identity.

Thats not to say that parents dont have a hand in that, but its just the development of their brains and puberty.

[Kuya]

Yea the times back then where peachy keen, what with the racism, super duper woman's rights, and xenophobia, people where just full of understanding back then.

[Intense]

Yea the times back then where peachy keen, what with the racism, super duper woman's rights, and xenophobia, people where just full of understanding back then.

would you say were in better shape now?

[Kenai]

Zits the sunday morning comic? Im not sure what your point was or if you were just joking around. But I'd say a typical 15 year old is self-centered/attention starved/confused about their identity.

Thats not to say that parents dont have a hand in that, but its just the development of their brains and puberty.

Yea, I was just trying to point out that kids don't magically mature at 15. Some people never mature, and aren't people still in that super-hormonal stage at 15-16?

Yea the times back then where peachy keen, what with the racism, super duper woman's rights, and xenophobia, people where just full of understanding back then.

would you say were in better shape now?

That would depend, I would say most of those aspects have definitely improved...

[Jujubie]

Yes, I think you should marry for love, but love alone does not make a marriage. It is a lot of hard work and compromise. First and formost you need to be friends. You can love someone more than you even thought possible, but it doesn't mean that you can live with them.

There is a huge difference between love and lust. A lot of people need to learn that.

Someone in here said it should be harder to get married. I agree. There should be required premarital counciling, commuication classes, parenting classes, compatibility tests--so you know where you will disagree and know how to handle it. (i think some states now have it) and a waiting period, 6 months?

I think most people should be older when they get married, at least 25. People change and grow up so much in the early 20's. (i'm 33 so I've learned by experience on this! )

[Eaglestrike]

Obviously they weren't perfect, but I think there was more self-pride in that generation than this one. We got rid of racism (for the most part) and fixed womens rights (for the most part...) but at the expense of causing a larger and much harder to deal with problem. As an American I've always felt that we would keep being a superpower as long as we had the spirit of fighting a war like WW2, where everyone works their ass off to get things done and we're a production machine. Honestly, if we were to face a serious war threat, I can see half the nation not even caring (and I don't mean this politically at all).

[Kuya]

Yea the times back then where peachy keen, what with the racism, super duper woman's rights, and xenophobia, people where just full of understanding back then.

would you say were in better shape now?

Its the same, old problems fade, new problems arise, welcome to advancement.

[Kenai]

Obviously they weren't perfect, but I think there was more self-pride in that generation than this one. We got rid of racism (for the most part) and fixed womens rights (for the most part...) but at the expense of causing a larger and much harder to deal with problem. As an American I've always felt that we would keep being a superpower as long as we had the spirit of fighting a war like WW2, where everyone works their ass off to get things done and we're a production machine. Honestly, if we were to face a serious war threat, I can see half the nation not even caring (and I don't mean this politically at all).

I can't even go into how much people have the ability to analyze this "war" right now, and why it is far, far different from something like WW2, but I just don't have the time right now (I don't mean this politically at all either). Let me just say that a the beginning most were definitely more supporite by the action, and that view has since changed...drastically, based on what was told vs the actual, unbiased truth of the situation.

[Eaglestrike]

I wasn't even talking about this war. I said a SERIOUS WAR THREAT. I.e. China flies over and bombs Pearl Harbor. I don't think the reaction from this country would be as big as the one from Pearl Harbor of WW2. And it's just because people don't give a shit about anything but themselves these days, there is no pride in family, family name, country, etc.

[Scythiroth]

Yes, I think you should marry for love, but love alone does not make a marriage. It is a lot of hard work and compromise. First and formost you need to be friends. You can love someone more than you even thought possible, but it doesn't mean that you can live with them.

There is a huge difference between love and lust. A lot of people need to learn that.

Someone in here said it should be harder to get married. I agree. There should be required premarital counciling, commuication classes, parenting classes, compatibility tests--so you know where you will disagree and know how to handle it. (i think some states now have it) and a waiting period, 6 months?

I think most people should be older when they get married, at least 25. People change and grow up so much in the early 20's. (i'm 33 so I've learned by experience on this! )

I don't think I read anything here that I can't agree with. This is pretty much exactly how I feel about it lol.

Too many people now think they are in love, but just love the person to get something out of it (sex, money, etc). Those people should not be getting married.

[Cesaria]

I get scared as heck seeing what seems to be happening to society these days - I know the past was very much a case of put a brave face on it, and people often trapped in unhappy and sometimes abusive relationships, but I wonder again if it's any better these days where some people seem to change partners at the drop of a hat. Yes, sure it's fine to ditch Mr Right-Last-Week for Mr Right-Until-Friday if you're doing it as a solo agent so to speak, but when kids come into the equation it gets so damned messy it's insane.

I taught one little boy, aged 4 who honestly didn't have a clue what the heck his surname was. Mum had got her latest new fella, and the kid had been ordered to call him Dad... kid had so many surnames scratched out on the cover of his reading record book he honestly didn't have a clue what his name was anymore. He'd go stay at grans for the night, who'd change it to the surname she believed it should be, then mum would hear him read and change it to another etc etc etc. Poor kid - I really felt for him.

Another one was the conversation between a couple of 6 year olds overheard in the cloakrooms at school one morning. "Is that your dad who dropped you off at school today?" "Yeah" "He was my dad last week."

I don't know, I see so many desperately confused kids, and kids caught in the middle of feuding parents being used as a weapon, or not knowing where the heck they're going after school that night (to mum, dad, grandma x, ex-partner-but-not-dad etc) and it really hits them hard, however much parents might throw toys and money at the problem and claim their divorces / relationship ups and downs aren't affecting the children. I know I'm quite a messed up and pain in the arse individual from having to deal with MY parents divorcing when I was 10, and I'm grown up now - and it still messes me up (I find it very hard to accept the possiblity of happy endings and relationships being long-term, because I never had that sense of stability as a child).

I guess I get fed up being a social worker, marriage guidance counsellor, agony aunt etc when I just want to teach their kids, and seeing what some parents are doing to their children... I want to bang their freaking heads together.

As for society as a whole - I tend to think that a lot of the problems coming through now are coming about as a result of people now valuing the child as king of it all, and plugging into "pester power" and the like. The number of completely out of control children I see who have their parents completely at their beck and call, leaving school throwing tantrums and being followed by parents desperately trying to placate their little darlings is insane. They're out of control by the age of four where I work at the moment... so when it comes to the teenage time where you're pushing the boundaries and being a general total pain in the arse... their parents have lost it completely and deploy the only strategy they know to bring peace and quiet about... throw "stuff" at the situation (PS2s... nintendos... mobile phones etc).

Sorry - a bit wall-o-text ranty, guess I'm turning into one of those teaching old-farts I vowed I'd never be

[Intense]

I wasn't even talking about this war. I said a SERIOUS WAR THREAT. I.e. China flies over and bombs Pearl Harbor. I don't think the reaction from this country would be as big as the one from Pearl Harbor of WW2. And it's just because people don't give a shit about anything but themselves these days, there is no pride in family, family name, country, etc.

At first I agreed to this, but when I thought about it a little more I remembered the sudden partiotism that came after 9/11. Sure it fizzed out after awhile, but i think it shows that our country is still capable of that level of self pride.

[Eaglestrike]

I wasn't even talking about this war. I said a SERIOUS WAR THREAT. I.e. China flies over and bombs Pearl Harbor. I don't think the reaction from this country would be as big as the one from Pearl Harbor of WW2. And it's just because people don't give a shit about anything but themselves these days, there is no pride in family, family name, country, etc.

At first I agreed to this, but when I thought about it a little more I remembered the sudden partiotism that came after 9/11. Sure it fizzed out after awhile, but i think it shows that our country is still capable of that level of self pride.

That's true, and I remember thinking back then that such things show we're still able to do it. But I think it's falling, another generation and we'll be done? As well, 9/11 was a direct hit on civilians, generally that angers and motivates more than military attacks but we did fizzle out quickly, not that there was anything to focus on really. I'm just not sure how well things would go if we were truly faced with WW3.

@ Cesaria : Wow, that's some horrible situations for kids. I've heard such things before, stuff like that shouldn't happen. It seems to be more common these days and it's terrible. But I look at how big the problem is and I don't see how one fixes this, the collective effort is just too great for the trust I have in my peers.

[Scythiroth]

@ Cesaria : Wow, that's some horrible situations for kids. I've heard such things before, stuff like that shouldn't happen. It seems to be more common these days and it's terrible. But I look at how big the problem is and I don't see how one fixes this, the collective effort is just too great for the trust I have in my peers.

That sounds so horrible, I feel really bad for those kids and I generally don't like children.

[Cletis]

i think its different for everyone..


my parents divorced when i was 5~6 yrs old.. i dont remember alot of it.. im 17 now and i think its pretty normal..


but then again there are some of my friends' parents who i cant imagine them ever being apart

[Navia]

I was married once before, @22 and it was for all the wrong reasons, thankfully I didn't have kids with that person and it was annulled after 10months.

Married now for 8 years w/ 2 kids - I can't have children anymore which bums me out since I have 2 boys and wanted a girl.

Regardless of the love, great sex and my spouse being 'my best friend' - its not easy raising kids, having a career and dealing with everything else that life throws at you. Throwing up your hands when stuff gets tough and worrying about #1 only is what makes couples fail these days - people can't temper their selfishness or make a concerted effort with their spouse to figure out just what the hell needs fixing.

I think getting married before ~25 or so is such a bad idea - people really need to figure out who they are and grow alittle on their own before locking themselves into what should be a lifelong commitment.
My parents were 17 1/2 and 23, they got divorced when I was like 5.

Partnered, married, whatever you want to call it - its all the same thing imo, you're no longer soloing that big bad HNM called 'Life'- you're supposed to be duoing it now

[Scythiroth]

A happy story confuses me after all these bad ones. >.> Well, at least some people are happy with marriage lol.

[Maguspk]

Yes, I think you should marry for love, but love alone does not make a marriage. It is a lot of hard work and compromise. First and formost you need to be friends. You can love someone more than you even thought possible, but it doesn't mean that you can live with them.

There is a huge difference between love and lust. A lot of people need to learn that.

Someone in here said it should be harder to get married. I agree. There should be required premarital counciling, commuication classes, parenting classes, compatibility tests--so you know where you will disagree and know how to handle it. (i think some states now have it) and a waiting period, 6 months?

I think most people should be older when they get married, at least 25. People change and grow up so much in the early 20's. (i'm 33 so I've learned by experience on this! )

QFT. People go into Marriage expecting Disney-movieesque occurences. The fact of the matter is, you have to work your keep, and even in Marriage it is necessary to strive for a better relationship constantly. Seldom do you find someone who you never can grow tired of. It happens for some, but usually it's because they have ways of maintaining the relationship.

Another thing that I think is increasing divorce rates is the fact that women are having alot more sex before marriage. And it's not uncommon to hear from a girl friends that they would try the sex before considering marriage. Which leads me to believe the sex can be unfilling in some relationships and this can lead to you thinking you should leave and find better. If you're a virgin when you get married however, you'd be very pleased with whatever you get, no matter how big/small disfigured lol. Maybe there's a reason for abstinence before marriage?

[Navia]

Yes, I think you should marry for love, but love alone does not make a marriage. It is a lot of hard work and compromise. First and formost you need to be friends. You can love someone more than you even thought possible, but it doesn't mean that you can live with them.

There is a huge difference between love and lust. A lot of people need to learn that.

Someone in here said it should be harder to get married. I agree. There should be required premarital counciling, commuication classes, parenting classes, compatibility tests--so you know where you will disagree and know how to handle it. (i think some states now have it) and a waiting period, 6 months?

I think most people should be older when they get married, at least 25. People change and grow up so much in the early 20's. (i'm 33 so I've learned by experience on this! )

QFT. People go into Marriage expecting Disney-movieesque occurences. The fact of the matter is, you have to work your keep, and even in Marriage it is necessary to strive for a better relationship constantly. Seldom do you find someone who you never can grow tired of. It happens for some, but usually it's because they have ways of maintaining the relationship.

Another thing that I think is increasing divorce rates is the fact that women are having alot more sex before marriage. And it's not uncommon to hear from a girl friends that they would try the sex before considering marriage. Which leads me to believe the sex can be unfilling in some relationships and this can lead to you thinking you should leave and find better. If you're a virgin when you get married however, you'd be very pleased with whatever you get, no matter how big/small disfigured lol. Maybe there's a reason for abstinence before marriage?

Women deserve good sex from their mate - ignorance of how good sex can be due to abstinence before marriage should be a crime imo.
I've got a girlfriend thats married and has only ever had one orgasm, I weep for her.
There's more to marriage than sex but it does improve the marital bond and maintain intimacy - marriage is so much better if *all* your bedroom needs get met, even the kinky stuff