Drain from weapons

[divisortheory]

When you strike an enemy with a weapon that has Additional Effect: Drain, exactly how many points of HP does the enemy lose? Here's a screenshot for the sake of demonstration:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...e3/Kraken2.jpg

Now, the very last line reads:

Lostsoul hits the Animated Shield for 175 points of damage.
Additional Effect: 184 HP drained from the Animated Shield.

Assuming that we didn't experience the out-of-order bug here where chat lines don't show up in the correct order, it follows that the 184 HP drain was a result of the same attack that inflicted 175 points of damage on the Shield.

In this scenario, how much HP did the enemy lose? It should be either 184 or 359 (175+184). But which is it? This may be a noob question, but at least 3 people I've asked don't have an answer that they're 100% sure about.


Regardless of whether it's 184 or 359, is the calculation the same for Bloody Bolts? How about other weapons which have Additional Effect: Drain?

[Gustfaint]

Could always setup a diorama and whack someone with a weapon like that over and over and see what happens. Unless diorama would calculate that differently...? Would seem stupid to do so though

[divisortheory]

Yea, it's easier to ask here though, and it may teach the answer to other people who never thought to ask the question that way as well :D

[Heian]

lol Lostsoul

[NynJa]

there was a legnthy discussion a while back, which I was in the recieving end of...yeah, I was wrong, it happens, anyways, blood weapon doesnt do damage to the enemy with its drain effect.

[divisortheory]

there was a legnthy discussion a while back, which I was in the recieving end of...yeah, I was wrong, it happens, anyways, blood weapon doesnt do damage to the enemy with its drain effect.

Err, if that's true than Kraken Club+Blood Weapon doesn't do any more damage to an enemy than Kraken Club+No Blood Weapon.

Edit: Oops I get it, it replinishes your HP each time for Souleater.

[Khamsin]

There's also another option: It took 175 points of damage, and for some reason it just gave you 184 HP without draining an additional 184.

But to answer this, it may help to expand the question to ask not only what happens with weapons that drain, but also with Blood Weapon. When a DRK, or Jormungand, uses Blood Weapon, does it deal 2x damage (the damage from the hit + the drain amount) or does it just simply heal you for how much you hit rather than draining an additional amount?

Unless weapons with drain is different from Blood Weapon, in which case ignore the Blood Weapon bit since it has nothing to do with the topic.

[Setats]

lol Lostsoul

I second that lol.

there was a legnthy discussion a while back, which I was in the recieving end of...yeah, I was wrong, it happens, anyways, blood weapon doesnt do damage to the enemy with its drain effect.

So you mean it just does the normal hit and some of what you hit (or all and then some) is drained to you? Hmm, is there a link to this lengthy discussion?

[Celeras]

there was a legnthy discussion a while back, which I was in the recieving end of...yeah, I was wrong, it happens, anyways, blood weapon doesnt do damage to the enemy with its drain effect.

I noticed this while leveling my Drk to 37 as a sub, actually probably as low as level 5. When youre fighting mobs that have such little HP and die in 4-5 hits, its really noticeable. If the drain actually did damage, you would see it take far fewer hits to kill something since it would essentially double your output. Not the case.

This is fairly easy to test as a level 75 drk too. Go fight some EP/TW mob in which your swings take away a signifcant portion of its HP bar, maybe 20%. Then find another one, pop 2 hour, and watch your swings do the same damage despite draining a considerable amount of HP.

Its just a free heal.

[kearnsy]

The last 3 lines of the SS are out of order. The last drain for 184 and the 175 hit need to been swapped because you can't drain for over what you hit for with Bloodweapon. When a dark uses Soleater bloodweapon they do it so you don't need constant curing because the bloodweapon negates the HP you lose from souleatering.


The dmg doesn't stack. If you hit for 304 and drain for 184 you only did 304 dmg to the mob.

[Tarnak]

ok this also brings into question bloody bolts since you can still do dmg when it says you drained 0hp and hit for 0

[divisortheory]

The last 3 lines of the SS are out of order. The last drain for 184 and the 175 hit need to been swapped because you can't drain for over what you hit for with Bloodweapon. When a dark uses Soleater bloodweapon they do it so you don't need constant curing because the bloodweapon negates the HP you lose from souleatering.


The dmg doesn't stack. If you hit for 304 and drain for 184 you only did 304 dmg to the mob.

So, for example, in a parser, if you're only parsing damage done to an enemy, it's safe to completely ignore any and all messages related to Additional Effect: Drain no matter what the circumstance it was generated? (obviously the spell drain should be considered, as well as Additional effect: elemental damage).

[divisortheory]

Er wait, in Dynamis hitting statues with Bloody Bolts definitely does damage from the drain effect. Is this the exception, or is Blood Weapon the exception?

[threevo]

ok this also brings into question bloody bolts since you can still do dmg when it says you drained 0hp and hit for 0

i think blood bolts are like the spell drain(yes i know 0HP drain does dmg), opposed to souleater.im pretty sure they do more dmg if u actually drain HP. i think, not sure damage seems to vary, i noticed when i was camping emp, 1 bloody bolt is about 1/2 a mobs HP, but when my hp was low and say a 80dmg drain kicked in it almost killed the thing

[kearnsy]

Er wait, in Dynamis hitting statues with Bloody Bolts definitely does damage from the drain effect. Is this the exception, or is Blood Weapon the exception?

blood weapon is the exception.

If you hit with bloody bolts more than likely you are gonna hit for 0-10? and then drain for like 40~ so you are really doing about 40-50 dmg.

[aurik]

Bloody bolts definitely add damage when they trigger.
DRK 2hr doesn't (nor does the add effect from apocalypse's WS)

I don't think they have different log messages which is going to make it nearly impossible to differentiate for a parser.

[Nystul]

ok this also brings into question bloody bolts since you can still do dmg when it says you drained 0hp and hit for 0

The deal here is this: In a situation where the rain spell itself is the only damage (IE the black mage spell Drain) done to a mob, you do damage regardless of what your HP return says.

However, when you have a situation where drain is an added effect, the drain is PART of the original damage done, hence the 300 damage, 180 hp drained but the mob only takes 300 damage. Of that 300, 180 was returned to the person as health.

I'm not sure about bloody bolts- do they do damage AND drain or just drain? I would assume a hit for 0/drain for 0 situation might occur when the mob has stoneskin up and the person attacking has full HP?

[aurik]

ok this also brings into question bloody bolts since you can still do dmg when it says you drained 0hp and hit for 0

The deal here is this: In a situation where the rain spell itself is the only damage (IE the black mage spell Drain) done to a mob, you do damage regardless of what your HP return says.

However, when you have a situation where drain is an added effect, the drain is PART of the original damage done, hence the 300 damage, 180 hp drained but the mob only takes 300 damage. Of that 300, 180 was returned to the person as health.

I'm not sure about bloody bolts- do they do damage AND drain or just drain? I would assume a hit for 0/drain for 0 situation might occur when the mob has stoneskin up and the person attacking has full HP?

Bloody bolts will drain for the full amount even if you have full HP. Log will report they did 0 (just like drain spell) but the damage still occurs.

They also do a bit of damage on their own.

[divisortheory]

Bloody bolts definitely add damage when they trigger.
DRK 2hr doesn't (nor does the add effect from apocalypse's WS)

I don't think they have different log messages which is going to make it nearly impossible to differentiate for a parser.

Well, I can watch for the Blood Weapon chat log message, which is easy, I already do this to watch for the Sneak Attack message and determine whether a crit was actually a crit, or just a Sneak Attack (that code is commented out in the release, but works). But that still might be insufficient in the drain case, because the Additional Effect line doesn't tell you which player's action generated the additional effect, so you can't tie it to a person who used Blood Weapon.

On the other hand, chat lines come with a "line number" and a "message number". In the case of the example I gave in the OP, the second line will have a "line number" one higher than the previous line number. But they'll both have the same message number. So I may be able to tie it to the player that way, then check if that player has Blood Weapon active, but I need to test whether or not the "player hits x" message and the "HP drained from x" message come across with the same message number, my gut tells me they will have the same message number.

But it may be more trouble than it's worth.

[kearnsy]

Blood weapon is the only exception for drain damage.

All weapons in this list....

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/list-by ... HP%20Drain

Will do damage for the normal hit of the weapon as well as whatever is drained as well.