Ethics question about HNM MPK

[Melchiah]

But you do give a fuck for BE huh?

What? I never brought that name up because I didn't want this discussion to be about specific instances on Titan.

My personal thoughts on it are that if you get the pull, and you wipe because someone fucked up, missed a cure, a voke, didn't position right, whatever stupid reason, then you wiped, and that is that. But in instances where say two claims go off and a hate war ensues until one side overpowers the other, or an outside claimer getting tagged with a cure, thus getting the opposing alliance on the hate list, I am of the opinion that ethics should come into play. To me, if you get overpowered in a hate war, then you lost... spamming Mazurka or Invincible use at this point becomes unethical. Fucking with outside claimers is also unethical, and you know they cannot put blockaid up.

[Takedown3]

shell 1: gets claim legitely(Because SE RMT Omega Red Elite Battle Squad is taking care as we speak.)

shell 2: mpk's shell 1 until wipe AND HOW

shell 2: partially wipes and loses claim (This is where you get the "o shit" face goin')

shell 3(me): we take that shit when it goes white and get more ridills (Because swinging 2-3 times > looking like an asshat)

added to sig w/big lol

[Tofs]

My personal thoughts on it are that if you get the pull, and you wipe because someone fucked up, missed a cure, a voke, didn't position right, whatever stupid reason, then you wiped, and that is that. But in instances where say two claims go off and a hate war ensues until one side overpowers the other, or an outside claimer getting tagged with a cure, thus getting the opposing alliance on the hate list, I am of the opinion that ethics should come into play. To me, if you get overpowered in a hate war, then you lost... spamming Mazurka or Invincible use at this point becomes unethical. Fucking with outside claimers is also unethical, and you know they cannot put blockaid up.

The problem is that noone will sit and let you take claim thats why its a hate war. On said example and other many that happened after SE changed the claim mechanics people will still try to overcome the others Emmity since that represents the claim on some extent. Curing outside claimers to somehow get into the mobs hate list is shady and i agree with yuo there unethical but sadly it happens. However when you have a claim fest going noone is gonna stop spamming their hate tools. Just as i pointed and its just a example the said situation happened 3+ lss had claim on fafnir from 100% The claim passed by 2 ls's before is arrived at karasu. You say its unethical that people spammed hate tools after they had it red but SOMEONE did to the first 2 ls's. The mob doesent automatically goes red to another poeple if they didnt so if they did it while it wusunt red to them wut makes it unethical to any others doing it after? Its a mob where everyone has hate no shady curing happened.

[Melchiah]

When the sumbitch goes from yellow hate war to purple and you can't take direct action on it anymore, it's fucking claimed and people should let that be that. One Faf comes to mind where our PLDs and those from another shell both were landing vokes on a yellow mob. At this point competition is open. After it turns color, I feel like if you don't have it, you don't have it. Standing on his tail and "trying to use hate tools to take claim back" is horseshit. That is straight up Flail attempt.(Not to say that Legacy or Karasu has done this to us)

Edit: On second thought I won't use the name of the dude that pulled that trash

[Bagel]

If I ever see someone from my LS manage to intentionally flail another, expect me to rub your face in it, not try and deny it.

[Avinor]

/ma "Tractor" Bagel

Ah the good ol days.

[Bagel]

Good thing they added /blockaid to stop you from doing that amirite!

[Mugmug]

Good thing they added /blockaid to stop you from doing that amirite!

Actually, when you die I'm pretty sure you lose blockaid.

Next time you die, expect non-stop tractors!

[Melchiah]

Mugmug, I demand that you allow me to /sit on that taru the next time he gets greased in DA before you begin dragging him about!

[Ravenlokk]

I think its worse when LS's//their members dont have the balls to grief another LS with their main... They use anonymous no-pearl mules because they dont have a pair, and lack the conviction to stand behind their actions.

[Medivac]

i agree with the if your on good terms, just rembered that shit could happen to you also, i really think you should be componsated though, but then again you could take it to 3rd grade lvl and if you get mpk'd you can just mpk them back

[Belladonna]

Damn I wish I saw this thread 2 days ago. An "ethics" discussion coming from a Particle member, members that MPKed another LS because they lost claim outside of alliance, and now bitching because they cant get blockaid up fast enough. After MPKing us at Faf, Particle leader FlyingDragoon told BE to use blockaid better, I suggest you follow your leaders advice.

Nothing can be done about Hampty, although I can honestly say we've never had any problems or MPK attempts from HE. If a player doesn't have bloackaid on because they're coming into ally and they get cured, they should still put blockaid on... instead of just standing there getting cure bombed the entire fight, which is something I've noticed your LS has a problem with.

If you're going to fight Fafnir (on Titan), you have to protect your claim, in addition to fighting.

[Melchiah]

Damn I wish I saw this thread 2 days ago. An "ethics" discussion coming from a Particle member, members that MPKed another LS because they lost claim outside of alliance, and now bitching because they cant get blockaid up fast enough. After MPKing us at Faf, Particle leader FlyingDragoon told BE to use blockaid better, I suggest you follow your leaders advice.

Nothing can be done about Hampty, although I can honestly say we've never had any problems or MPK attempts from HE. If a player doesn't have bloackaid on because they're coming into ally and they get cured, they should still put blockaid on... instead of just standing there getting cure bombed the entire fight, which is something I've noticed your LS has a problem with.

If you're going to fight Fafnir (on Titan), you have to protect your claim, in addition to fighting.

Bella, GTFO. I talked with you about this, and you bullshitted me. You guys were fucking with our claimer and took our Fafnir, so we took it back. End of story. Outside claim people CAN'T put blockaid up, and you guys exploited that to take our mob. Once he gets cured, the asshole who did it is already on the hate list, and is free to Invincible or Mazurka his hate right through the roof. Doesn't matter if the guy puts blockaid up after the fact or not, the douchebaggery has already been committed. Then Buddha flails us at the next camp after some shaky hate, and neither of us ended up with that Fafnir. I'm sure Bagel was more than happy to take another shot at a Ridill because of BE's douchebaggery. All you people accomplished was MPKing us and you, and giving Karasu a free Fafnir. Good fucking job. At least we got most of October/November's Nidhoggs.

This is entirely what I was trying to avoid, but since some of you had to sling your balls on the table, fuck BE. Funny how JR and Karasu don't have issue with us and try to fuck with our claimers. Funny how JR and Karasu don't cry about us MPKing them and taking our stolen mobs back. You guys don't have issues with HE because you are small-time and you never claim shit anyway. Of course they don't MPK you, they usually already have the mob. Nice creativity on ripping off their name too.

As for me wanting to discuss end-game ethics in an end-game forum, since there is a question about the instance you described above, don't you think it appropriate that the community discuss what is deemed appropriate? Jesus.

[Bagel]

I'm sure Bagel was more than happy to take another shot at A. Feet because of BE's douchebaggery.

Fixed

[Melchiah]

I'm sure Bagel was more than happy to take another shot at A. Feet because of BE's douchebaggery.

Fixed

Ew. That makes me feel marginally better about it hahahaha

[Aodh]

At least we botted most of October/November's Nidhoggs.

Fixed >.> <.<

[Belladonna]

Particle will do anything to get claim, and justify any means necessary.

One of our first weeks we got 4 Fafs and 1 Nid and one of those fafs went like this: Your outside claimer DIED at faf being 100%, we took when it turned yellow and fought with no deaths til 30%, then Vajra MPKed, we did not retaliate at that time. The very next day our outside claimer died and Particle took and "our" faf was not returned. Read that again incase it's unclear Mel, because I was there, were you? Particle has double standards when it comes to ethics. Anything to get the mob red to Particle. Isn't that what this whole topic is really about?

Karasu and maybe JR leaders did the most for "Titan Ethics" and I wish we still randomed.


Once again to clairfy: We did nothing to your outside claimer. We didn't cure him a single time. He died and we took a yellow mob because you didn't get him in ally fast enough (Had we been curing him, he wouldn't have died, so I can assure you we were not). When you MPKed us, you talked some serious shit to an LS that had essentially done nothing to you, and we still have no problems with any other ls, nor do we steal from other ls's, whereas I've seen Particle try and steal from I think every single ls, usually unsuccessfully. Anyway, we gave you guys some shit back a month later and moved on. You're the one posting about ethics.

Look at your own ls before crying to others.


edit: I'm talking about what happened at first. We told you retaliation would come eventually, and it did, and you should follow FlyingDragoon's advice: Learn to blockaid better. We didn't know Pharakon (god bless him) was outside ally, he had blockaid off for 15 mins, we didn't start curing for hate til almost 90%, we didn't exploit shit.

[Melchiah]

Whoa, Mel didn't say dick shit while Buddha was flailing us. As a matter of fact, I was screaming at people on TS and in LS to shut the fuck up and stop trash talking.

And I didn't bring all this shit up in the first place Bella, I was as vague as possible for the fucking purpose of NOT starting a shit-slinging contest. The entire idea with this thread was to talk about the current mood of end gamers on HNM ethics given an arbitrary example, not to point fingers or name names. I agree that HE totally fucked up ethics on the NA side, because they are piece of shit JP RMTs who camp in NA time and steal anything they can, and disregard the old /random rules.

I told you when we talked that I didn't have anything to do with flailing you guys, regardless of the situation, and that I make a habit of walking when I see people in a shell I am part of doing shit I think is wrong.

If you are accurately representing the situation, then no, they shouldn't have kept the Fafnir they took from you, nor should they have flailed you at 30%. But let me ask you this. Had they not MPKed BE at the first Faf in question to get the stolen one back, would BE have handed it over? Fuck no you wouldn't have. You didn't take it in the first place just to give it back, but you expect Particle to return a claim they got in the same manner as you did. So don't try this bullshit moral posturing with me.

Ugh, this is what I was trying to avoid. I wanted a healthy discussion on ethics, not this fuckstory.

And how the fuck do you know that HE was dual-boxing their men? And why does it matter if people MPK them? They are parasites Bella!

At least we botted most of October/November's Nidhoggs.

Fixed >.> <.<

C'mon now Aodh :3 You know we bot just as much as Karasu or BE or JR does.

Edit: Really, I think the HE factor is what has fucked up the end game ethics on Titan. Those guys steal from NAs, from JPs, anyone and anywhere they can, and they are at every camp every day. I kind of feel like they are responsible for the trash heap that has become Titan end game. No shell wants to see a legit claim gone south end up in HE's hands, and they absolutely refuse to /random, and erego that rule has gone right out the window.

[Belladonna]

I just don't feel like HE are RMT, but that's just my personal opinion and I can see given their past actions why other linkshells would hate them. But like I said, they haven't done shit to us... and they're not as powerful as they were.

I didn't mean to get into this shit, cuz it's really old shit, that was just recently dealt with in Aery. But those are the facts and I don't feel like BE exploited outside claimers at all. We were slapped first. Now if HE found your outside claimers, then I see your frustration. I think if Hampty would honor random, we could potentially random again. HE's been bahaving lately. Except that I think it's the NA's that wouldn't want to random with Hampty.

edit: and no of course BE wouldn't have handed it over, but my point was that Particle MPKed based on this yet wouldn't play by the rules they made.

[Melchiah]

You can't trust HE to honor /random. Oh, I'm sure they will /random all day long, and then go ahead and claim a yellow mob if it gets them gear. Hell they were curing our tanks at the last Tiamat attempt, and there is no fucking way we are gonna /blockaid trying to kill grands. All our healing is outside, other than AA WHMs/SMNs.

As for HE not being RMT, do a search on some of the really old threads around here. There is one that has a link to HE's website where they publicly advertise R/E god drops and HNM abjurations for gil. Maybe not RMT, but it smells like it to me. Either that, or they are just to greedy. Either way, they are parasites.