JoL- tanking subjob

[Piper]

What dropped Lins? How's the LS been?

[BerenTebogo]

Unless the footprint suddenly 1 shots AV, anyone who calls a GM is a fucking faggot.

Agree 100% Xavier

[xingoo]

I don't know if I misread but... Has anyone locked his 2hr yet after the update?

[Ryko]

Flash! Stun! Rampart! Soul Eater! Last Resort!

By your powers combined, I am Captain Safety Valve!

I thought in the joke that Chiz was the Last Resort (i.e. Captain Safety Valve)

I can't remember, this thread just brought my muddled memory into full out half-recollection!

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/244...tyfirsthy1.png

[Stellar]

Nin sub works good, about half of the damaging spells he casts are single target tier IV and those get absorbed.. You still take damage from -ga spells, so plenty of chances to build hate with CIV's.. We used a Pld/nin and a Pld/war on our last JoL and the Pld/nin held better hate overall. Taking minimal damage is just as important to holding hate as tools to build hate.

[Darcain]

I dont know how you guys say that nin is a shoody tank on him. I agree some might be better but nin/brd works very well. Good hate ,and swapping to a full magic resist set takes his -gas down considerably. Also how is utsusemi useless? He does cast many single target spells.

[Talis]

I dont know how you guys say that nin is a shoody tank on him. I agree some might be better but nin/brd works very well. Good hate ,and swapping to a full magic resist set takes his -gas down considerably. Also how is utsusemi useless? He does cast many single target spells.

Because you have to crowd 6 other people around the NIN/BRD to make mazruka work, who also all have to eat the aga's.

[Avinor]

I dont know how you guys say that nin is a shoody tank on him. I agree some might be better but nin/brd works very well. Good hate ,and swapping to a full magic resist set takes his -gas down considerably. Also how is utsusemi useless? He does cast many single target spells.

Because you have to crowd 6 other people around the NIN/BRD to make mazruka work, who also all have to eat the aga's.

Nothing a curaga or 2 won't fix. Just make sure your mages have a bit of hp and some magic defense gear. For the really bad elements, thunder and fire, you can split up and hold out till it changes to an element with less damage output.

[Talis]

I dont know how you guys say that nin is a shoody tank on him. I agree some might be better but nin/brd works very well. Good hate ,and swapping to a full magic resist set takes his -gas down considerably. Also how is utsusemi useless? He does cast many single target spells.

Because you have to crowd 6 other people around the NIN/BRD to make mazruka work, who also all have to eat the aga's.

Nothing a curaga or 2 won't fix. Just make sure your mages have a bit of hp and some magic defense gear. For the really bad elements, thunder and fire, you can split up and hold out till it changes to an element with less damage output.

Or you could just PLD/WAR tank it, spread out so each doesn't get hit by the others aga, and rely on cross curing. Hate is more then stable enough for the blm to free nuke at will, and very little outside curing is needed.

The other problem (and I'm not sure how huge a problem this is, because I'm not 100% sure how the pet hate works) is that spamming mazruka may build hate on the pets as they spawn, so theres a good chance that if you aren't nuking them down nearly instantly, that they will add back on to the NIN/BRD tank.

[Avinor]

Or you could just PLD/WAR tank it, spread out so each doesn't get hit by the others aga, and rely on cross curing. Hate is more then stable enough for the blm to free nuke at will, and very little outside curing is needed.

The other problem (and I'm not sure how huge a problem this is, because I'm not 100% sure how the pet hate works) is that spamming mazruka may build hate on the pets as they spawn, so theres a good chance that if you aren't nuking them down nearly instantly, that they will add back on to the NIN/BRD tank.

Mazurka won't lock the pets on you unless you do something silly like hit them. And I've PLD/WAR tanked JoL before, BLMs and DD will get hate if they're doing proper damage. With mazurka, they never take hate, they never have to log, and they never have worry. And the tank party doesn't even have to be in the alliance, which is fun.

Overall we kill faster with mazurka tanks, whether we have enough to move the tank party out of the alliance or not, because the DDs never have to slow down. It really is more effective for Love.

[RKenshin]

I dont know how you guys say that nin is a shoody tank on him. I agree some might be better but nin/brd works very well. Good hate ,and swapping to a full magic resist set takes his -gas down considerably. Also how is utsusemi useless? He does cast many single target spells.

Because you have to crowd 6 other people around the NIN/BRD to make mazruka work, who also all have to eat the aga's.

The last few times we did JoL we had a NIN/BRD tanking, who basically never lost hate aside from stupid stuff like 4x Phaubo all TP attacking at the same time and killing her.

Mazurka doesn't need 5 other people to be effective, she only sang Mazurka on herself and 2 other PLDs and it was more than enough to get solid hate. While she had hate no one pulled it off of her with rare exceptions, occasionally the PLDs with her did (whom have upwards of +50 enmity in gear and did most of the curing), and occasionally Kraken DRKs did.

In one of the fights I started with a Souleater BW, dealing around 12k damage, and still didn't get hate. I never logged off through the entire fight, using Souleater whenever it was ready and dealing around 30-40% of the total damage, and while I did occasionally pull hate it was never longer than around 5-15 seconds.

We used to spread out for -gas, but found it to just be more trouble than it's worth. More often than not something goes wrong whether someone is chasing an add or walking in the wrong place, then they get hit by a -ga and often die or just waste MP. It was just much less trouble to have all 3 tanks close, leaving a larger area for the add crew and DDs to work with, and allowing WHMs to easily Barspell/support them properly.

[Delekii]

The fight isnt a very intense fight support wise - its probably better that anyone who can cast stoneskin apart from the WHM just stand with the tanks to A. increase the effectiveness of Mazurka, and B. soak ga damage.

The adds are actually the main reason why I say a PLD or a RDM are better than a NIN for main tank - phalanx and stoneskin will last more than long enough for the adds to be pulled, while shadows will be wiped almost instantly.

I have no doubt that anyone/brd can keep hate permanantly on JoL against anyone who isnt casting mazurka. Whats in question is how well they mitigate and/or recover from damage. As a RDM/BRD with magus roll and appropriate gear, JoL wont even break my stoneskin except in Thunder or Fire mode.

[RKenshin]

Add melee damage isn't the problem I was talking about actually, it's when (I think JoL uses Astral?) it spawns all the Phaubo and they all instantly use a TP attack on one tank. It mostly depends on luck, some JoL fights it never happens and some fights it happens 2-3 times. But if each of the Phaubo land the TP attack and hit hard enough it instant KOs just about any tank with each of the TP attacks doing 400-700 damage, including PLDs.

I'm pretty sure it's a magic damage attack as well, so really the only thing to help survive would be HP and magic defense (which is hard to macro in time). Stoneskin would help a great deal too though, like you mentioned.

[Avinor]

It was always 3x Aerial Collisions whenever it happened to me, and it did usually kill me. I was fairly certain it was physical damage, though the range was pretty big (700+ at most, but occasionally ~50). Either way its annoying, so having a backup tank with a lot of hate helps.

Edit: Used invincible on Hope while he was spamming Collision and took 0. Possible the Love summons are different, but I doubt it, so it seems its physical. Just has a wide range of damage I guess.

[wop]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2.../blog/Jol3.jpg

A little late, but we find PLD/RDM to be the best combo.

/WHM pretty useless as who are you gonna Curaga or heal? The PLD next to you?

I'd rather have Fast Cast as well as Dispel, Sleep, Blind spam.

Killed with 18 with ease.

(Of course, AV pops, and we lose like 200k worth of XP for the next 3 hours)

[Delekii]

Like said earlier, have the rest of the tank party stand in AoE range to soak damage and offer the opportunity to curaga heal/hit with mazurka.

[Kaylia]

[img].com/albums/b259/wopadobop/blog/Jol3.jpg[/img]

A little late, but we find PLD/RDM to be the best combo.

/WHM pretty useless as who are you gonna Curaga or heal? The PLD next to you?

I'd rather have Fast Cast as well as Dispel, Sleep, Blind spam.

Killed with 18 with ease.

(Of course, AV pops, and we lose like 200k worth of XP for the next 3 hours)

How many blm did you have, and how long it took?

[wop]

3 BLMs, Ancha, Nkoh and Rislim.

Took about 2 hours or a bit less, dmg coming from 1 Apocalypse DRK, 1 SMN, 1 RNG + 1 THF full time for TH to kick in.

[Kainen]

We did 2 pld/brd in about 45 minutes. RDM/BRD or PLD/BRD own this fight. Really all you need is Cure + Mazurka. Any combination with both of those can tank this.

[Moggy]

are ppl's ls really short on brds?

brd/nin, 1800hp, harp, and a cool earth staff

harp out ranges -ga spells so u could land mazurka on full PT safely, and for kicks u can even do ur own carol! lol