New Items Galore! (12/13/2006)

[Ninjiz]

After popping 8 Swift belt Mobs, dont you have to go get max fomor hate all over again? Or bring someone who does? I never tried to pop a swift belt for myself, but have helped others, cause i have 0 fomor hate.

[Suiram]

I suppose you're right, it would be nice if it was 100%.

[Lordwafik]

After popping 8 Swift belt Mobs, dont you have to go get max fomor hate all over again? Or bring someone who does? I never tried to pop a swift belt for myself, but have helped others, cause i have 0 fomor hate.

Yep. Gotta do it all again, another reason it's stupid to not have this 100%

[Abel]

Ninjiz wrote:
After popping 8 Swift belt Mobs, dont you have to go get max fomor hate all over again? Or bring someone who does? I never tried to pop a swift belt for myself, but have helped others, cause i have 0 fomor hate.


Yep. Gotta do it all again, another reason it's stupid to not have this 100%

Again back to my original statement a few pages back: SE does not learn from their mistakes. They assume simply that people keep trying to Swift Belt = Them liking to try time and time again to max fomor hate, get a codex, and then pop it again, and go 0/10 on the damned thing. It's already been shown they have no idea whatsoever about what the hell is going on in their own game. "Most of FFXI players use windower." SE: "Whut?! Nowa! RLY?!" It's ridiculous how little they know, but it does make sense if you look at the game, having no idea wtf it's truly about, or what the main portion of the now dwindling number of subscribers want, then the updates make perfect sense. I'm strictly dumbfounded by how they couldn't even knock 1% more onto Barb. Zerehs just to make them equal haste, the stats are already drastically less, why not? It's stupid things like that, or how come Homam is really good for many if not all the jobs that can equip it (certain pieces of course), but all this other new gear is absolute shit? Do we really have to wait until months and months after TAU is fully updated and more people have quit, just to get decent gear that STILL doesn't beat ROZ?

I agree with a previous poster, it's rather hard to beat their already ROZ gear due to how good it is, but honestly it's also not at the same time. It only is if you gauge it in comparison with the already available commonly camped NMs and Bosses from other areas. What they need to do is make NM's and Bosses new, that practically REQUIRE the use of ROZ gear, and make it drop easier, either from NM or KSNM w/e. Then after that they get gear that's even superior, something similar to what another previous poster mentioned about enhanced stats, yes you'd get more E-Peen playing in merit parties, but that said gear would again be practically a necessity to face the next barrage of Bosses, without said gear you'd be lacking dramatically, and would easily lose, compared to having a shred of hope at winning a very hard fight, even with the proper gear. This, should also be made a la Assault, instanced, but say a group of 18 or so can enter, as few at 6 for less difficulty but perhaps less droprate/reward rate.

Aside from the one-liners that SE is dumb, doesn't learn, and hates their fans, or that COP team is back with Shotguns, or even that the creative devs are working on the new SE MMO, what's a legitimate reason they can't do that? Yes some would see it as ripping off Blizzard or any other *Successful* MMO that does that, I personally hate the playstyle of WoW, but their ideas at least that bit is very good for any MMO, and SE should see that pop NM's are obsolete for The-Best-Of-The-Best gear. People wouldn't quit the game half as much if these aforementioned gears didn't take many many man hours, and even if you did manage to claim day after day after day, your success rating would be incredibly low to get what you wanted anyways. The thought of getting this, then having to do it AGAIN for somebody else, is mind-numbing to many, and they just quit. Can't honestly blame most of them, but it highly defeats the purpose of even getting said gear for some. Release more Assault-Like things, adjust the old, and increase Time : Reward ratio, and they'll see tons of players coming back if the reviews are decent enough. Then again this is SE, and it's 5:08AM, and I've been studying all day long, so perhaps it's just a random synapse in my brain that's making me act hopeful instead of a Bitter Holiday Bastard.

[NynJa]

The problem with swift belts is that it isn't 100%

Honestly.

Would the game break if NM's you specifically had to use a pop item to fight actually had a 100% droprate on what you were after? Whats the point in making some people go 1/12 on Swift Belt? I don't understand why you'd make someone so frustrated they'd quit the game, or defend something so retarded.

They made sky droprates 100%, and, oh, I don't know, everybody loves sky.

i think it goes two ways...
a crafted pop item that doesnt use ingredients w/ a shitty drop rate to begin with (goblin wolfman) shouldnt be 100%.

but a pop item with an allready shitty drop rate (fomor codex, clustered tar), or a synthed pop item where one of the materials are a shitty drop rate (odorous knife, hickory shield), the thing should be 100%, or atleast high enough that if you bring TH2 to the fight, it should be damn near 100%.

[Tomino]

the Tier system we all wish for will never be, because it'd bother JP players.

let's divide player base between JP (oldest users), NA (middle) and EU (newest one), basing on official releases.

Sky (tier1 endgame) is released, and JP are able to play it since the first day since they are the strongest player (level wise) around. They get access to Sky/HNM/Dynamis drops and pimp themselves.
After a while, NA joins the endgame but they still started later compared to JP, so they need more drops.

then CoP (theorically tier2 endgame) is released.
now let's say that Sea (tier2 endgame) > Sky (tier1 endgame) in terms of efforts/drops. let's suppose Jailers drop something just a little better than Gods, and AV is hard as Kirin with the Novio still dropping from him.
then what would prevent all of the NAs to leave Sky/Dynamis and focus on Sea/CoP Dynamis?
More, the newly introduced EU players would just get to 75 and spam Sea, without even bothering to try tier1 endgame.

finally ToAU is released, and it counts as tier3 endgame then.
following a normal tier system, Hydra/Cerberus drops should > old HNMs, so every JP, NA and EU would, again, leave old content to spam the new.



that's why FF XI system is so "weird" sometimes.
basically, tier2 became the bitchy version of tier1, with increased difficulty and decreased rewards.
so you'll only do tier2 when tier1 is done; it'd be stupid, and very hard, to go the other way. once ppl feel served on tier1 (at least their main job) they can move on tier2, and so on.

[Ninjiz]

And that would be BETTER then the current system where tier 2 and tier 3 < tier 1, and no one leaves tier 1?? And if better stuff was in the expansions, Im Sure they would STILL be camped, but you know what, with all this content SPREAD OUT accross the entire game, it would give different people, different linkshells, more options on things to do. Im sure newer shells would still start out in sky, since its a good starting ground for new players interested in HNM stuff imo.

As someone else stated the stuff in teh new areas doesnt even HAVE to be leaps and bounds better. Just = or slightly better then the content released 2 expansions ago. That doesnt sound unreasonable to me. Hell, if teh content was equally as good i wouldnt even complain. But id much rather equally as good gear with alternative ways to get it over the same RoZ content. Why does certain gear HAVE to only drop from one god, in one area?

[Tomino]

And that would be BETTER then the current system where tier 2 and tier 3 < tier 1, and no one leaves tier 1??

i didnt comment it.
in the end, you are always gonna piss someone, so SE decided to bash the newbies and comfort its oldest player base, the JP.

basically, you have to spam tier1 Sky/HNM/Dynamis in order to get endgame gear. period.
if you have time (and you are either a very old JP player or someone who plays 24/24h), spamming tier2 will give you items to enhace your versatility : macro pieces, parade pieces, very situational pieces.

this way, tier2 endgame will be less populated, kinda elitist. the real veteran players, JP for the most part, will enjoy them.

[Spira]

i dunno about that tier system.. to me sky and sea are somewhat equals..

the comparison i draw is that each expansion has got 3 hnms and then 1 end-game NM system in a less accessible area..

if we do Zilart <-> Promathia <-> Aht Urhgan

then the 3 HNMs would be

Zilart : KB, Aspid, Fafnid
Promathia: Vrtra, Tiamat, Jormy
Aht Urhgan: Cerberus, Hydra, Khimaira

and the end-game NM systems would be..

Zilart: Kirin and the Shijin in Tu'Lia
Promathia: AV and the Jailers in Lumoria..

and we don't really know whats in store for ToA

the only major problem i see is that for the effort put into doing the sea system.. the rewards don't seem quite as worth it.. the thing that's supposed to be the icing on the cake is just too ridiculously hard to kill (currently impossible no?). SE definitely outdid itself on that one... If AV could be more killable.. still harder than JoL of course, but killable without the need of a luck factor.. people would certainly complain less about why its not rewarding.. because AVs drops would actually be worth their effort.

along the way SE has thrown in other stuff... i think its a safe trend to say that each expansion has some form of alliance BC fights.. It started with Divine Might for Zilart, but CoP has Ouryu and Bahamut and I think Waking the Beast is actually Zilart too.. some of the drops are awesome.. it just that the droprate is either too horrendous or the reward:effort ratio is just totally out of proportion... this is what SE really needs to work on...

[Siatdiat]

The problem with swift belts isn't the drop rate, and it isn't that people don't bring 8 pop items with them for one belt. It's because there's always one guy with shitty luck who goes with 7 other guys, spends 4 hours in there, doesn't get his belt, can't get the people he helped to come help him the next time so he gets 7 other people and his belt doesn't drop and so on and so forth for 11 Sacrarium runs totalling 40 hours. But the drop rate itself is decent. KS30 weapons I was just referring to Senju and Destroyers that I'd put in the list. As for sea pop items not being 100%, you're preaching to the choir here. And Choplix recovers your PT's HP and MP and just rocks in general.

We did 11 swift belt pops last week and got 3. Yeah that is a decent droprate. Can I have some of whatever you are smoking?

[Uzor]

The problem with swift belts isn't the drop rate, and it isn't that people don't bring 8 pop items with them for one belt. It's because there's always one guy with shitty luck who goes with 7 other guys, spends 4 hours in there, doesn't get his belt, can't get the people he helped to come help him the next time so he gets 7 other people and his belt doesn't drop and so on and so forth for 11 Sacrarium runs totalling 40 hours. But the drop rate itself is decent. KS30 weapons I was just referring to Senju and Destroyers that I'd put in the list. As for sea pop items not being 100%, you're preaching to the choir here. And Choplix recovers your PT's HP and MP and just rocks in general.

We did 11 swift belt pops last week and got 3. Yeah that is a decent droprate. Can I have some of whatever you are smoking?

o.O; we did 11 and walked out with 9 >.>

[Siatdiat]

Ninjiz wrote:
After popping 8 Swift belt Mobs, dont you have to go get max fomor hate all over again? Or bring someone who does? I never tried to pop a swift belt for myself, but have helped others, cause i have 0 fomor hate.


Yep. Gotta do it all again, another reason it's stupid to not have this 100%

Again back to my original statement a few pages back: SE does not learn from their mistakes. They assume simply that people keep trying to Swift Belt = Them liking to try time and time again to max fomor hate, get a codex, and then pop it again, and go 0/10 on the damned thing. It's already been shown they have no idea whatsoever about what the hell is going on in their own game. "Most of FFXI players use windower." SE: "Whut?! Nowa! RLY?!" It's ridiculous how little they know, but it does make sense if you look at the game, having no idea wtf it's truly about, or what the main portion of the now dwindling number of subscribers want, then the updates make perfect sense. I'm strictly dumbfounded by how they couldn't even knock 1% more onto Barb. Zerehs just to make them equal haste, the stats are already drastically less, why not? It's stupid things like that, or how come Homam is really good for many if not all the jobs that can equip it (certain pieces of course), but all this other new gear is absolute shit? Do we really have to wait until months and months after TAU is fully updated and more people have quit, just to get decent gear that STILL doesn't beat ROZ?

I agree with a previous poster, it's rather hard to beat their already ROZ gear due to how good it is, but honestly it's also not at the same time. It only is if you gauge it in comparison with the already available commonly camped NMs and Bosses from other areas. What they need to do is make NM's and Bosses new, that practically REQUIRE the use of ROZ gear, and make it drop easier, either from NM or KSNM w/e. Then after that they get gear that's even superior, something similar to what another previous poster mentioned about enhanced stats, yes you'd get more E-Peen playing in merit parties, but that said gear would again be practically a necessity to face the next barrage of Bosses, without said gear you'd be lacking dramatically, and would easily lose, compared to having a shred of hope at winning a very hard fight, even with the proper gear. This, should also be made a la Assault, instanced, but say a group of 18 or so can enter, as few at 6 for less difficulty but perhaps less droprate/reward rate.

Aside from the one-liners that SE is dumb, doesn't learn, and hates their fans, or that COP team is back with Shotguns, or even that the creative devs are working on the new SE MMO, what's a legitimate reason they can't do that? Yes some would see it as ripping off Blizzard or any other *Successful* MMO that does that, I personally hate the playstyle of WoW, but their ideas at least that bit is very good for any MMO, and SE should see that pop NM's are obsolete for The-Best-Of-The-Best gear. People wouldn't quit the game half as much if these aforementioned gears didn't take many many man hours, and even if you did manage to claim day after day after day, your success rating would be incredibly low to get what you wanted anyways. The thought of getting this, then having to do it AGAIN for somebody else, is mind-numbing to many, and they just quit. Can't honestly blame most of them, but it highly defeats the purpose of even getting said gear for some. Release more Assault-Like things, adjust the old, and increase Time : Reward ratio, and they'll see tons of players coming back if the reviews are decent enough. Then again this is SE, and it's 5:08AM, and I've been studying all day long, so perhaps it's just a random synapse in my brain that's making me act hopeful instead of a Bitter Holiday Bastard.

Gear can never really change progression that much on world hnms, there is no limit to how many people can fight, maybe only 18 in alliance but people will swap in members/whole parties, progression can only really happen in instanced or close to instances content.

[Palin@Ramuh]

swift belt is stupid, Speed Belt onry

[Kyreth]

*ponders* I could see another option. FF has used the Underworld as a place where one can meet old enemies you've defeated (sometimes as undead). Obviously, somewhere in the Empire is a gate from there to the surface.

Beat Cerebus to enter the Underworld, of course (as a key item that poofs on entry). Like in a lot of FF games, you'd see places much like the world above, and burial grounds for different kinds of monsters and the character races. Certain areas would require having completed an mission/expansion to enter.

Here and there through the place, there would be ??? spots where you could make an offering- sacrificing a specific item (or a choice of a few) to call the dead. They'd have to be a unique item specific to the monster- like Byakko's Axe or Haidate (either) for Byakko, or a Comet Tail/Thundercloud for Behemoth/King Behemoth (random chance for either), or a Daylight Dagger for Tzee Xicu, etc. This would spawn the HNM aggroed and claimed for the alliance that called it, a normal fight would occur, and drops would be identical to the living original monster.

The kicker? There's a chance a HQ2, unique version of the monster appears instead, which drops abjuration-style upgrades to the gear the NQ or HQ version of the monster normally coughs up. If there are multiple items that can be sacrificed, there may be one with has a higher chance of spawning this version- so if you take on Byakko, the Axe is a lower chance, the Haidate a higher one of calling up Ancient Byakko (not a real name) instead of Byakko...who drops the regular Byakko loot but instead of Axe/Haidate, drops items that will synth with them to create a superior version (that CANNOT be used to respawn the monster in question).

ToAU makes all the HNMLS'es happy, people get their instanced HNM battles and tougher fights, and the world is saved for democracy.

[Ninjiz]

And that would be BETTER then the current system where tier 2 and tier 3 < tier 1, and no one leaves tier 1??

i didnt comment it.
in the end, you are always gonna piss someone, so SE decided to bash the newbies and comfort its oldest player base, the JP.

basically, you have to spam tier1 Sky/HNM/Dynamis in order to get endgame gear. period.
if you have time (and you are either a very old JP player or someone who plays 24/24h), spamming tier2 will give you items to enhace your versatility : macro pieces, parade pieces, very situational pieces.

this way, tier2 endgame will be less populated, kinda elitist. the real veteran players, JP for the most part, will enjoy them.

Im sorry, but in the end, they basicly are reasting on RoZ content for being the bulk of everything. Id rather have populated areas, then contant empty ones. Point blank SE doesnt understand the concept of times vs rewards. Therefore they were content with "tier 1" content, then created CoP with bad drop rates all over. The new content SHOULD be on an even level, or show a natural proggression, no wonder SE struggles to keep 500,000 accounts, while a game liek WoW has 7 million.

[Matricide]

non-100% pop item drop rates are fucking stupid, anyone arguing against this can suck my balls. sure you go 8/11 but you still have that one or 2 people who are 0/10, and that's bullshit. why the fuck do you have ohat as 100% and other stuff not? there's just no point at all.

i'm surprised turban is 100%, imagine trading 1000 coins and the npc saying "Sorry, but the turban got destroyed in a horrible besieged attack, try again!!!"

[Cauac]

The lack of real tiers of progression leads to the point where aquiring gear actually becomes the goal and reason of playing.

This is why most endgame activety consists of camping the same NM's and repeating the same events over and over, which in most cases ends up becoming the sole reason of playing this game..

If there was tiered gameplay, one would aquire gear in order to progress and "go play the game", however SE designed it so aquiring gear becomes the goal instead of the means to achieve the goal.
The difference in that might be irrelevant for some, but for others its the reason why the game grows to be like a chore at times..

*ponders* I could see another option. FF has used the Underworld as a place where one can meet old enemies you've defeated (sometimes as undead). Obviously, somewhere in the Empire is a gate from there to the surface.

Beat Cerebus to enter the Underworld, of course (as a key item that poofs on entry). Like in a lot of FF games, you'd see places much like the world above, and burial grounds for different kinds of monsters and the character races. Certain areas would require having completed an mission/expansion to enter.

Here and there through the place, there would be ??? spots where you could make an offering- sacrificing a specific item (or a choice of a few) to call the dead. They'd have to be a unique item specific to the monster- like Byakko's Axe or Haidate (either) for Byakko, or a Comet Tail/Thundercloud for Behemoth/King Behemoth (random chance for either), or a Daylight Dagger for Tzee Xicu, etc. This would spawn the HNM aggroed and claimed for the alliance that called it, a normal fight would occur, and drops would be identical to the living original monster.

The kicker? There's a chance a HQ2, unique version of the monster appears instead, which drops abjuration-style upgrades to the gear the NQ or HQ version of the monster normally coughs up. If there are multiple items that can be sacrificed, there may be one with has a higher chance of spawning this version- so if you take on Byakko, the Axe is a lower chance, the Haidate a higher one of calling up Ancient Byakko (not a real name) instead of Byakko...who drops the regular Byakko loot but instead of Axe/Haidate, drops items that will synth with them to create a superior version (that CANNOT be used to respawn the monster in question).

ToAU makes all the HNMLS'es happy, people get their instanced HNM battles and tougher fights, and the world is saved for democracy.

that would be awesome lol... then again.. with SE's notion of what droprates should be.. popping ancient byakkoo with haidate and getting 3 lightning crystals and an oxblood.. >.<
Not to mention using ridill popitem XD

Point blank SE doesnt understand the concept of times vs rewards

definatly.. enjoyment rewards progression vs disappointments effort and stagnation are completely out of balance.

[Credos]

*ponders* I could see another option. FF has used the Underworld as a place where one can meet old enemies you've defeated (sometimes as undead). Obviously, somewhere in the Empire is a gate from there to the surface.

Beat Cerebus to enter the Underworld, of course (as a key item that poofs on entry). Like in a lot of FF games, you'd see places much like the world above, and burial grounds for different kinds of monsters and the character races. Certain areas would require having completed an mission/expansion to enter.

Here and there through the place, there would be ??? spots where you could make an offering- sacrificing a specific item (or a choice of a few) to call the dead. They'd have to be a unique item specific to the monster- like Byakko's Axe or Haidate (either) for Byakko, or a Comet Tail/Thundercloud for Behemoth/King Behemoth (random chance for either), or a Daylight Dagger for Tzee Xicu, etc. This would spawn the HNM aggroed and claimed for the alliance that called it, a normal fight would occur, and drops would be identical to the living original monster.

The kicker? There's a chance a HQ2, unique version of the monster appears instead, which drops abjuration-style upgrades to the gear the NQ or HQ version of the monster normally coughs up. If there are multiple items that can be sacrificed, there may be one with has a higher chance of spawning this version- so if you take on Byakko, the Axe is a lower chance, the Haidate a higher one of calling up Ancient Byakko (not a real name) instead of Byakko...who drops the regular Byakko loot but instead of Axe/Haidate, drops items that will synth with them to create a superior version (that CANNOT be used to respawn the monster in question).

ToAU makes all the HNMLS'es happy, people get their instanced HNM battles and tougher fights, and the world is saved for democracy.

This would be so fucking pwn its not even funny.

Then again after 2 years of killing Zilart gods I'd like to get into some new content. Sea is great for the fights, but the pain in the ass is just getting to some of the areas.

[solsovly]

non-100% pop item drop rates are fucking stupid, anyone arguing against this can suck my balls. sure you go 8/11 but you still have that one or 2 people who are 0/10, and that's bullshit. why the fuck do you have ohat as 100% and other stuff not? there's just no point at all.

i'm surprised turban is 100%, imagine trading 1000 coins and the npc saying "Sorry, but the turban got destroyed in a horrible besieged attack, try again!!!"

Don't give them more ideas. How bout SE says hey we fixed CoP and ToaU gear! (read they just nerfed RoZ gear). Have a nice day.

[Xavier]

what would prevent all of the NAs to leave Sky/Dynamis and focus on Sea/CoP Dynamis?
More, the newly introduced EU players would just get to 75 and spam Sea, without even bothering to try tier1 endgame.

You don't really understand the discussion then. We're talking about an actual system of progression. Ideally, new level 75 players wouldn't be capable of going straight to Sea because they wouldn't have the tier1 gear to be able to accomplish anything.

They've fucked the game up because the emphesis is more on the jobs than the gear, and the vast majority of things can be accomplished in this game either in your AF1, or simply by zerging.