Herald's Gaiters

[aurik]

And this (4-man IX'Mon w/ rdm, whm, blm, thf for TH)

Ix'monk is soloable without gaiters, lol. Anyone not wearing full dusk can kite it.

Yes, but again gaiters help, and add a room for error/extra nuke/whatever. I mean you could use bio 1 instead of bio 2 too to DOT kite something...bio 2 is still better, even though the job will still get done with bio 1.

YOU CAN KITE THIS MOB IN DUSK GEAR. That's how easy it is. Seriously, the mob takes a detour to fucking delaware every time he turns a corner. With 2 blms you can pretty much nuke every time you have MP and kite him fine with no gaiters. I'd prefer wearing af2 on this fight, honestly, because a single trigger of conserve MP will help more than the extra distance.

I mean, according to your logic, crimson cuisses are useless on pld and rdm, and striders are useless on thf, because you can do everything you need to without them, right? But I don't think that's a reasonable statement to make.

Striders are helpful for thf pulling and nice toys but otherwise make very little difference. I mean, when was the last time a hnmls said "we need to camp simurgh so our thfs are more effective"? Sometime in 2004?

Crimson cuisses are more useful on pld because they are a main tank and main kiter for alliance-calibur mobs; virtually everything that blms are "main tanks" for they don't make 2 squirts of difference. See above: you can cite a few examples of blms using gaiters where they can otherwise win without them easily.

The point I'm making is who gives a shit who gets the gaiters, from a "LS functionality" point a view. They're toys, they won't ever make a significant impact, so just give them to someone who works hard for the LS and is underappreciated.

[Maximilianbob]

And this (4-man IX'Mon w/ rdm, whm, blm, thf for TH)

Ix'monk is soloable without gaiters, lol. Anyone not wearing full dusk can kite it.

Yes, but again gaiters help, and add a room for error/extra nuke/whatever. I mean you could use bio 1 instead of bio 2 too to DOT kite something...bio 2 is still better, even though the job will still get done with bio 1.

YOU CAN KITE THIS MOB IN DUSK GEAR. That's how easy it is. Seriously, the mob takes a detour to fucking delaware every time he turns a corner. With 2 blms you can pretty much nuke every time you have MP and kite him fine with no gaiters. I'd prefer wearing af2 on this fight, honestly, because a single trigger of conserve MP will help more than the extra distance.

[quote:1df5e]I mean, according to your logic, crimson cuisses are useless on pld and rdm, and striders are useless on thf, because you can do everything you need to without them, right? But I don't think that's a reasonable statement to make.

Striders are helpful for thf pulling and nice toys but otherwise make very little difference. I mean, when was the last time a hnmls said "we need to camp simurgh so our thfs are more effective"? Sometime in 2004?

Crimson cuisses are more useful on pld because they are a main tank and main kiter for alliance-calibur mobs; virtually everything that blms are "main tanks" for they don't make 2 squirts of difference. See above: you can cite a few examples of blms using gaiters where they can otherwise win without them easily.

The point I'm making is who gives a shit who gets the gaiters, from a "LS functionality" point a view. They're toys, they won't ever make a significant impact, so just give them to someone who works hard for the LS and is underappreciated.[/quote:1df5e]

To go back to the original point:

People want them because they give movement up on jobs that don't normally get movement up.

They're best given to jobs that like to solo a lot and where movement up plays a role (blm), or need to get there faster (whm).

Onto the tangent:
As for them not making a significant impact, 8) The original question was, why do people want them and what jobs should get them, "it doesn't matter who gets them" is false on its face, any more than saying "We have a Bahamut staff, we should give it to a PLD". You were given the examples of areas they help in, you poo pooed them and said they were easy kills. Guess what? Movement up makes it easier. What you are saying when you say it doesn't make a difference, is that you obtain no benefit from running faster...and that's pretty much wrong for jobs like blm and whm.

THF apparently can use striders to good effect in dyn - /shrug, I don't have thf leveled. I will say that there is a difference in rdm kiting, even for the relatively easy solos I do, with cuisses than without. Maybe I'm a bad kiter? Sure, but that still doesn't mean "give them to anyone". Heck, maybe OP should give them to the worst kiters in his shell to help them learn to run.

I don't advise kiting stuff in dusk gear either, but if you do do that then more power to you. In fact you can kite and nuke stuff naked for all that matters. It doesn't change the fact that your mages arrive at camp or NM 12% earlier, your blms run from monsters 12% faster, your summoners...dodge stuff 8 evasion higher?

For example, buying a pricey weapon for meriting that improves your efficiency may or may not be worth it, but it's still an improvement. Clearly you can merit and merit well using lesser weapons but that doesn't affect the original point, which is that some choices are better than others.

[Andrinne]

The point, Aurik, is that if you mouth off that all gaiters are beneficial for is showing off in town, you don't develop players who might stretch the envelope. Sure, nothing I have done is original. I and my friends steal ideas from others and morph them to fit us. But for a new player forum, I'd like to encourage people to consider using their gear for things other than running to Aery quicker or always taking NMs like Ix'Monk with 15 people.

I'd prefer wearing af2 on this fight, honestly, because a single trigger of conserve MP will help more than the extra distance.

Why would I ever nuke in gaiters? I have resting gear, 3 nuking setups and running gear. Please tell me you gear swap.

virtually everything that blms are "main tanks" for they don't make 2 squirts of difference

A blm becomes a main tank on any mob when you breach that hate line, and with a few exceptions, it's advised that you then move your ass.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13...runnnntext.jpg

[Seditedi]

yea, just because you have gaiters doesn't mean you nuke with em lol. Just nuke and swap em back on if you pull hate.

[aurik]

People want them because they give movement up on jobs that don't normally get movement up.

They're best given to jobs that like to solo a lot and where movement up plays a role (blm), or need to get there faster (whm).

If movement up plays a role as blm, you're doing it wrong. It helps you Get There Faster as BLM, WHM, SMN, and MNK, ie any job that can wear them. You can make an argument about who you would rather arrive first at a NM fight, sure, but that's about the extent of Real Utility these things give.

Onto the tangent:
As for them not making a significant impact, Cool The original question was, why do people want them and what jobs should get them, "it doesn't matter who gets them" is false on its face, any more than saying "We have a Bahamut staff, we should give it to a PLD".

Straw man. Bahamut staff changes nothing for a PLD. It changes something for a SMN. Gaiters change something (the same thing) for all the jobs that can use them.

You were given the examples of areas they help in, you poo pooed them and said they were easy kills. Guess what? Movement up makes it easier. What you are saying when you say it doesn't make a difference, is that you obtain no benefit from running faster...and that's pretty much wrong for jobs like blm and whm.

It only makes it easier if you are bad at it already. It doesn't help you nuke faster or save more mp or deal more damage; given that kiting is not the bottleneck in the fight it has precisely zero effect. If you put a cutting edge graphics card on a 486, it's still going to suck because you haven't addressed the bottleneck.

THF apparently can use striders to good effect in dyn - /shrug, I don't have thf leveled.

Makes no real difference in dyna; anyone can pull effectively in any zone except Xarc, and demons outrun striders with ease so it doesn't help there either. You can make an argument about kiting away angra's pets but even there you're limited by the pukis speed, not the thf speed.

I don't advise kiting stuff in dusk gear either, but if you do do that then more power to you. In fact you can kite and nuke stuff naked for all that matters. It doesn't change the fact that your mages arrive at camp or NM 12% earlier, your blms run from monsters 12% faster, your summoners...dodge stuff 8 evasion higher?

Anyone wearing the gaiters arrives at camp 12% faster; that's a false advantage. Why again are your blms running from monsters? Running is extremely inefficient, because it's time spent neither resting nor nuking.

For example, buying a pricey weapon for meriting that improves your efficiency may or may not be worth it, but it's still an improvement. Clearly you can merit and merit well using lesser weapons but that doesn't affect the original point, which is that some choices are better than others.

You just described why they're a toy: they don't make a difference in the big scheme of things.

[Seditedi]

Yea I agree with Aurik, but even if I did have my own pair, I wouldn't use em full time. I've borrowed an ls mate's pair and the best use I have found for them is when checking for Faith or Fortitude ???s running around in the Garden of Ru'hmet lol.

edit:
WTF are you getting hit for here when using Gaiters? LOL
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13...runnnntext.jpg

I borrowed a pair fighting it just for kicks and Fort had no chance to catch me, don't think I got hit once entire fight and I ended up kiting it 70% of the fight... lol.

[aurik]

The point, Aurik, is that if you mouth off that all gaiters are beneficial for is showing off in town, you don't develop players who might stretch the envelope. Sure, nothing I have done is original. I and my friends steal ideas from others and morph them to fit us. But for a new player forum, I'd like to encourage people to consider using their gear for things other than running to Aery quicker or always taking NMs like Ix'Monk with 15 people.

You mean like with 1-2 people with no enhanced movement, right? You don't need ANY enhanced gear and you can SOLO ix'mnk in a black cloak and nothing else for christ sake. It's not special. Pushing the envelope is doing shit like faith with 2, not running faster to get away from a nm that can't catch up to a gravitied snail.

[quote:914a5] I'd prefer wearing af2 on this fight, honestly, because a single trigger of conserve MP will help more than the extra distance.

Why would I ever nuke in gaiters? I have resting gear, 3 nuking setups and running gear. Please tell me you gear swap.
[/quote:914a5]

If you're soloing, you're winning through dots not nukes; having the extra distance doesn't help you one bit. If you're duoing, you're trading hate using t4 nukes and resting your mp back; having the extra distance doesn't help you one bit.

[quote:914a5]virtually everything that blms are "main tanks" for they don't make 2 squirts of difference

A blm becomes a main tank on any mob when you breach that hate line, and with a few exceptions, it's advised that you then move your ass.[/quote:914a5]

Teach your blms about hate control maybe?

Oh and J42, you can outrun vorpal blade with normal run speed, just like almost EVERY tp move that is melee-range (goblin rush, etc). All you have to be doing is running away from the mob when it uses it, presto out-of-range.

The real question is why you used Thundaga3 on '42 when he was right next to you. Don't you know you can nuke from 20' away?

[Andrinne]

Why again are your blms running from monsters? Running is extremely inefficient, because it's time spent neither resting nor nuking.

Lord, I give up. If you don't understand that a small amount of time spent running avoids 7-minute weakness, then I can't help you.

By your argument no gear is needed. Why should we even quest to kill HNMs? It's all negligible difference anyway right? What's another percent haste or another int? We don't NEED any piece of gear right?

The real question is why you used Thundaga3 on '42 when he was right next to you. Don't you know you can nuke from 20' away?

Hmmm. Could it be that there is an ally of other players acting on the mob? Stopping it, turning it around? I mean you see in the screenshot, the tanks are confused as to who it's on, but yeah, obviously i set off a Thundaga-3 with what, 5-second cast time with it right next to me. No dude, the thing bolts around the square reversing directions with hate. (yeah our blms like to have fun. It's Thundaga3 not bio2.)

The more you talk, the more I am convinced you actually don't do some of the shit you pontificate about.

I guess it's best said, some of us do, others sit in Al Zahbi and talk about what we should be doing.

[aurik]

Why again are your blms running from monsters? Running is extremely inefficient, because it's time spent neither resting nor nuking.

Lord, I give up. If you don't understand that a small amount of time spent running avoids 7-minute weakness, then I can't help you.

By your argument no gear is needed. Why should we even quest to kill HNMs? It's all negligible difference anyway right? What's another percent haste or another int?

[quote:551b6]The real question is why you used Thundaga3 on '42 when he was right next to you. Don't you know you can nuke from 20' away?

Hmmm. Could it be that there is an ally of other players acting on the mob? Stopping it, turning it around? I mean you see in the screenshot, the tanks are confused as to who it's on, but yeah, obviously i set off a Thundaga-3 with what, 5-second cast time with it right next to me. No dude, the thing bolts around the square reversing directions with hate. (yeah our blms like to have fun. It's Thundaga3 not bio2.)

The more you talk, the more I am convinced you actually don't do some of the shit you pontificate about.
[/quote:551b6]

So basically what you're saying is that they allow you to suck and get away with it? Some gear improvement then, I can see why they're in such high demand with all the complete retards in HNM shells these days.

I did J'42 with 6 (pld nin rdm smn blm blm) and me and the other blm had zero problems taking him out with no enhancement speed at all. I'm sure it could be done with less, I've never had cause to.

[Suiram]

While having gaiters helps poor blms do things that skilled blms can do, they also help skilled blms do them faster and easier, since you can incorporate into your strategy the knowledge that you will out-distance a mob after one attack round rather than having to wait for the incremental distance from pathing. It also allows you to get an appreciable distance away to perform your next action in a considerably shorter period of time.

That said, in my view none of the situations where this is useful could in all honestly be viewed as a considerable benefit to your LS to where BLMs deserve priority over the other jobs that can equip them.

[aurik]

While having gaiters helps poor blms do things that skilled blms can do, they also help skilled blms do them faster and easier, since you can incorporate into your strategy the knowledge that you will out-distance a mob after one attack round rather than having to wait for the incremental distance from pathing. It also allows you to get an appreciable distance away to perform your next action in a considerably shorter period of time.

While a good argument, that could be said for virtually every job that can equip them, save monk who typically take action in the form of meleeing.

[Suiram]

While a good argument, that could be said for virtually every job that can equip them, save monk who typically take action in the form of meleeing.

Yeah I tried to make that clear in my second paragraph (that while the benefits to a BLM were being understated, they are not in themselves so significant or job-specific that BLM ought to be given priority on the item in my view).

[Seditedi]

WHM is another good use for gaiters imo.....
Allows them to keep up with tanks using wlegs etc.

Giving another look at the screenshot makes me wonder what Andrinne is trying to show... just looks like lack of skill to me lol. Even if it did end up changing hate, how the hell did you get hit twice? 12% movement is considerably faster than Fortitude, you just need to learn how to time your casts to avoid being hit, don't need Gaiters to get away if you have sense enough to not cast when its right on top of you. Only argument I see coming from Andrinne is that Gaiters makes unskilled BLM not die.. lol.

[Andrinne]

So basically what you're saying is that they allow you to suck and get away with it? Some gear improvement then, I can see why they're in such high demand with all the complete retards in HNM shells these days.

I did J'42 with 6 (pld nin rdm smn blm blm) and me and the other blm had zero problems taking him out with no enhancement speed at all. I'm sure it could be done with less, I've never had cause to.

'Blah, blah, you suck, blah, blah, I'm better than you.'

This is your response rather than addressing why you have just indicated that:
1) if you wear gaiters you would have to nuke in them.
2) you can't fathom why a blm who might get too much hate might need to kite for a minute instead of die. (even the most careful blm crosses that line from time to time.)

Wow, I thought Raineer kinda went over the top a few pages back with his criticism of your arrogance, but now I see when you get caught in your own idiocy you just seek to spam insults on others. So much for a helpful thread for newer players.

[Andrinne]

Giving another look at the screenshot makes me wonder what Andrinne is trying to show...

Criticisms taken. What I was trying to show was the sentence right before the screenshot: Sometimes you get too much hate and it is well advised that you move your ass.

The mob was being kited around the square toward me and I set off the nuke at a time that i thought he would be well beyond me when it landed, but the fact is he stopped because of action by another player. I didn't interrupt my spell in time and he was very close when it landed.

Meh criticize all you want. It doesn't bother me. If you play BLM long enough in this game, you know you try to think out your steps as well as possible, but sometimes shit happens.

In this case it did, and Andrinne is too far away.

[Seditedi]

You don't understand a god damn thing at all... the whole point is that BLMs DO NOT need Gaiters to kite. Well if you are a complete moron and happen to nuke Fortitude when its standing right next to you then maybe you will need em to survive, but if you have the sense to cancel your nuke if the NM comes close while you are casting then you won't have to worry and can just recast from a safe distance. I guess its fun to play w/ no sense and just nuke and run whenever you feel like it, but the whole argument is that gaiters are not needed if you happen to pull hate and need to kite.

edit:

In this case it did, and Andrinne is too far away.

You don't need gaiters to outrun a vorpal blade... lol

[vagus]

+movement speed is the best.
About a year ago I bought a pair for a whopping 130m. Nowadays I see them go for 40m and it doesn't bother me in the least - it was still worth every penny to an impatient person such as myself.

wow people sell gaiters on your server?


Gaiters are a toy, all the jobs that can use it will benefit from it in some form. Just like Strider boots for thf/rng, (which should be for corsair as well) are also toys. There luxery items and not really needed.

W.Legs on the other hand, depending on your LS / playing style there a must for paladin. ^.^b. I have a pair of striders for my thf, and well the movement speed is noticeable. It adds up pretty quickly.

[Kaeko]

If you're LS does things based on "Need" and "Making the LS better", I would have to say just give them to whoever you think deserves them because how much use you get out of them will depend completely on the type of person you give them too, not their job.

Gaiters give players more room for error - that's basically it. You can solo Ix'MNK w/o them, but you can do them a lot easier with them. No one can play perfectly all the time and when a single item can make up for so many errors, it's very nice.

The best example of this on a BLM is Apollyon NW. You have 90 minutes of soloing IT++ mobs that all run faster than you with gaiters on, and a time constraint. It's not hard to kill a mob in that zone but it is very hard to kill a lot of them perfectly, quickly. Then on KB, when soloing it, you don't HAVE TO have faster run walk on it to avoid dying, but clearing distance faster gives more leeway to nuke (when you use the "blink" trick). I personally still believe that zone is impossible to win solo as BLM w/o gaiters - when 1 item means difference between winning/losing, they are not toys imo.

But that's just solo fun. As far as HNM goes (which was the original argument), just give them to whoever deserves them. Endgame is about getting others things that they can never hope to get themselves - people want gaiters, if anything, just to walk faster from place to place - if they want them, and your LS can kill Tiamat, then they are worth getting.

[Demenicold]

Newbie forum bitchfest got me thinking of some noob questions, so I figure all the attention you guys are giving here I'll ask ^^

What's the fewest ppl you can take fort and faith down with? My only sea nm experiance has been Ix'mnk so far going 2rdm, 2blm for 3 organ pops . gd 10/10 deeds I don't think vice's exist ; ;

Also, which fights are wlegs absolutly necessary for a pld?

[aurik]

Fort can be done 6 or less for sure. (I did it as pld nin rdm smn blm blm)
Faith can be done with 4 or less. (I did it as mnk rdm rdm bst)
Ix'mnk can be done with a single person. Easier with 2-3 because solo means mostly dot, which is kinda slow.
Ix'drk can be done solo by using the zoneline, but it's not time-efficient to pop him with 1 person so rarely is done that way.
Ix'drg can also be done solo, but again not time efficient to pop him with 1 person.

Edit: ding 5000 and a new title, rofl