Thief Gear Equips

[shat]

subbing anything but nin for exp is so trashy and 2005.

loooooooooooooooooooooooooool

i meant merits but my point remains the same. unless you like taking unnecessary damage, TPing slower, and doing even less WS damage than /NIN 40% of the time.

[Lordwafik]

The power of TH4 superstition can overcome a lot, but it can't beat mage utility.

Depends if your LS knows how much a thief can do. If your LS sucks and they live in 2004 (and your thieves have not proved them wrong) then yeah, keep being a gimpy TH whore.

And you don't gain TP slower as /war to the above poster. You don't take as much damage as you think, most WS as /war I TA onto ninjas, unless the mob is at low HP. High agi/eva and a shield help out alot, I've taken many low dmg mob WS due to the fact I have a tatami shield kicking in, not to mention our high evasion.

[Okuza]

Actually, I kind of like THF damage on gods -- even more than most other melee besides RNG. A THF can zip in/out of AE with sneak and trick and add enough damage to make progress when we're really light (like a 5-6 player Faust kill). The THF is always THF/nin, though. We do too much variety in a sky trip for one come as anything else. Other subs can work, but they all require more support and that support isn't there in our shell.

Depends if your LS knows how much a thief can do. If your LS sucks and they live in 2004 (and your thieves have not proved them wrong) then yeah, keep being a gimpy TH whore.

THFs are always a luxory. The only fight anywhere in all of FFXI that requires a THF is Brigandish and I'm not sure if it needs to be main-thf to steal the buccaneer's. OTH, there are a TON of fights where mages are absolutely essential. THFs are really nice to have around once you meet all the other requirements for a fight, but that's it. Supposing I could trade players like baseball cards on an HNM roster, I'd almost never trade a mage for a THF. If I had a mage surplus or a really shitty mage, I would. I'd probably trade for a THF ahead of a lot of other jobs, but my goal there would be TH4 or Feint-5, not big damage from that one THF. I'd trade a TH2/Mandau/Feint1 for a TH3/Heartsnatcher/Feint5 or TH4 without a second thought. It's great when a TH4 is doing nice damage, but that's not why I'd want a THF in the first place.

My own attitude on THFs irks the hell out my THF side. Swapping TH back in works fine on HNM, but sucks for smaller quicker fights like Dynamis. I'd rather pitch my knife and gloves and focus on damage without having to swap stuff back in for the kill. I know they're only adding 2% boost, but .. gah, drop rates are bad enough already without skimping on TH.

The only other THF aspect asside from TH4 that would inspire me to recruit a THF is Feint-5. I would really love to try a fight with 4xTHF who all have Feint-5. They could keep the Feint debuff on the target 100% of the time. Too bad most THFs are meritting AC and AS; those two abilities will never inspire me to recruit a random THF. TH4 or maximum Feint would.

BTW, I really loved playing THF back in the old days. Renkei groups were a blast as a THF. It took nice group coordination and discipline to make XP pay off back then. That's why I leveled THF up in the first place. I was having too much fun to consider another job. These days with all the melee-burn groups, THF is frustrating to XP. It's handy on HNM and most shells really perk up if a TH4 shows interest, but it's still just a bonus job.

[Michaera]

Why Dragon Harness over Assault Jerkin on xp mobs? Seriously, it's like wearing a Luisant Haubert over a Haubergeon, or something. Unless the argument is that the subtle blow+10 is essential, with generally 2-3 other melee hitting on the mob at the same time? :/

And so with WAR sub at somewhere like Mamool Ja Staging point, do you find that it takes around 60 seconds to get TP so that you can TA with every WS? Or do you SA and just become an MP sponge til it dies? I mean I've always been a fan of /NIN, mainly because I like being able to keep myself alive if I choose to SA something, or blink that stupid wind shear, but I could /war and TA only if it didn't mean I'd have to wait on TA timers and be stuck with 150+ TP every time. Is this not the case?

[Quixotic]

Stacking TA or SA with a WS is a no no in merit pts if you want to be efficient (unless you're lordwafik or other relic holder)

SA and TA while nice on WS, is best used as a burst damage and TP gaining tool in merits. All attacks in an attack round will land with 100% accuracy when you SA or TA. So, that's a good 1-6 (depending on subs and such) attacks in one hit along with the bonus SA'd or TA'd hit for 400 or whatever (depending on your equip). I rarely ever xp my thf anymore in merits, only for buffer, but it is by far, the most demanding job in a merit situation. Keeping track of all you timers, constantly macroing in and out of different gear sets (tp gear set depends on camp, haste gear for casting, dex for SA, agi for TA, str for WS, etc) is hard work. For WS i've always played it like WAR: I macro in tons of STR where I can for dancing edge and I solo it without stacking. For soft targets like caedarva or puks, you can easily break 1k without stacking provided you have a bard.

[kihre]

Personally, I like /nin for xp best (lol if i ever get a merit pt on thf) only because i get more TP build that way. I have fully merited crit and triple attack, so that helps with TP as well, but i find that I do more damage over time as sj ninja than i would as sj war... despite the ZOMG BIG WS NUMBERS that /war sometimes gives.

i have heca body and feet for macroing on WS (have not obtained an N Head because it doesn't exist when my ls gets fafnir, but if it did i would also macro that in)... I don't use heca hands because when i WS i usually kill the mob, and i don't want to unequip TH hands for it.

My main dagger is Stylet, my offhand is Thf Knife. Since there is rarely a time i merit as thf, i don't have a secondary DD knife to replace Thf Knife with. All other situations people only have me as Thf for TH. Also! Remember that Dancing Edge is DEX *and* CHR base! Assassin Armlets have +5 CHR (as opposed to the +4 in H. Mittens... nevermind that H mittens also have +7 STR, but that doesn't count so much in the WS).

I use Stylet for the high damage, low delay, and DEX. I get my +att with my back piece and merits on Dagger.

I use Rajas and Flame ring because i dont see going past 100 dex to push damage higher, so I pump up the STR instead. This has made damage over time nicer! :D

I like dragon subligar for soloing, for the subtle blow. I think in XP pt i'd rather use Homam to boost TP gain. I use Walahra Turban full time, unless i'm somewhere like Dynamis Xarc where I need the added acc. I still use Warwolf Belt, despite other people liking swift belt... All those triple attack merits kinda make up for the loss of haste% in that slot.

Fafnir/Nidhogg always /whm
KB: lol doesn't matter, but some like /sam
XP: I would say use Dragon harness full time unless you're having trouble with TP gain... Then use SH, with Heca on WS.

Play around with your body EQ during XP party. Sometimes you need that added ACC with Scorpion Harness, and sometimes you don't. In all fairness, a lot of these things vary with race (I'm mithra with the nice DEX stat, so i don't need to overdo that trait on my EQ)

My THF is level 22, but I got a feeling at least half of that stuff is wrong.

you "Feel" half this stuff is wrong? please specify with research, numbers, and links.

[archibaldcrane]

Personally, I like /nin for xp best (lol if i ever get a merit pt on thf) only because i get more TP build that way. I have fully merited crit and triple attack, so that helps with TP as well, but i find that I do more damage over time as sj ninja than i would as sj war... despite the ZOMG BIG WS NUMBERS that /war sometimes gives.

i have heca body and feet for macroing on WS (have not obtained an N Head because it doesn't exist when my ls gets fafnir, but if it did i would also macro that in)... I don't use heca hands because when i WS i usually kill the mob, and i don't want to unequip TH hands for it.

My main dagger is Stylet, my offhand is Thf Knife. Since there is rarely a time i merit as thf, i don't have a secondary DD knife to replace Thf Knife with. All other situations people only have me as Thf for TH. Also! Remember that Dancing Edge is DEX *and* CHR base! Assassin Armlets have +5 CHR (as opposed to the +4 in H. Mittens... nevermind that H mittens also have +7 STR, but that doesn't count so much in the WS).

I use Stylet for the high damage, low delay, and DEX. I get my +att with my back piece and merits on Dagger.

I use Rajas and Flame ring because i dont see going past 100 dex to push damage higher, so I pump up the STR instead. This has made damage over time nicer! :D

I like dragon subligar for soloing, for the subtle blow. I think in XP pt i'd rather use Homam to boost TP gain. I use Walahra Turban full time, unless i'm somewhere like Dynamis Xarc where I need the added acc. I still use Warwolf Belt, despite other people liking swift belt... All those triple attack merits kinda make up for the loss of haste% in that slot.

Fafnir/Nidhogg always /whm
KB: lol doesn't matter, but some like /sam
XP: I would say use Dragon harness full time unless you're having trouble with TP gain... Then use SH, with Heca on WS.

Play around with your body EQ during XP party. Sometimes you need that added ACC with Scorpion Harness, and sometimes you don't. In all fairness, a lot of these things vary with race (I'm mithra with the nice DEX stat, so i don't need to overdo that trait on my EQ)

My THF is level 22, but I got a feeling at least half of that stuff is wrong.

you "Feel" half this stuff is wrong? please specify with research, numbers, and links.

S'ok Zilong, I've got your back. I've taken two characters to 75 thf, and I know half this stuff is wrong. When he started talking about how he was a mithra and had "enough" DEX, it was the point where you can throw everything else he says right out the fucking window. (There is no DEX cap for SA, every point of DEX is just as effective as the point of DEX before it - using a Flame ring for SA is about 25% as effective as using Thunder ring) Add into that hilarity of things like "when i WS i usually kill the mob" and "Armlets > Heca for WS cause of lolCHR" and you've got the most prototypical TH-whore only type of thief.

Don't take advice from these people.

[Zilong]

you "Feel" half this stuff is wrong? please specify with research, numbers, and links.

*sigh* Guess now I just have to dissect everything you say and tell you one by one why it's wrong then right?

I don't use heca hands because when i WS i usually kill the mob, and i don't want to unequip TH hands for it.

Oh god, more puk wings!!! I'm sure that's worth the loss of 7 STR 4 DEX on SA WS!!!


My main dagger is Stylet, my offhand is Thf Knife. Since there is rarely a time i merit as thf, i don't have a secondary DD knife to replace Thf Knife with. All other situations people only have me as Thf for TH.

That's nice and all, but I'm sure the OP was asking for more than TH whore/pity-buffer-after-dynamis build.

Also! Remember that Dancing Edge is DEX *and* CHR base! Assassin Armlets have +5 CHR (as opposed to the +4 in H. Mittens... nevermind that H mittens also have +7 STR, but that doesn't count so much in the WS).

Can someone get Rykoshet's lolmodifier quote here?

Also!! Formula time!!!

D = [(WD + FSTR + WSC) *FTP]*PDIF

D = Damage
WD = Weapon DMG rating
FSTR = function of your STR - mob's VIT
WSC = secondary modifier
FTP = TP multiplier
PDIF = Your attack/mob's defense ratio

Now, plug in the Dancing Edge formula with your current setup, then change the value of your STR, then your CHR, tell me which matters more.


I use Stylet for the high damage, low delay, and DEX. I get my +att with my back piece and merits on Dagger.

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/6709


I use Rajas and Flame ring because i dont see going past 100 dex to push damage higher, so I pump up the STR instead. This has made damage over time nicer!

Sounds like someone has never heard of equip macros for WS, SA, and TP.

And if you're aiming for DoT, dual snipers owns the shit out of both of them anyway.


I still use Warwolf Belt, despite other people liking swift belt... All those triple attack merits kinda make up for the loss of haste% in that slot.

Warwolf belt is strictly SA/WS macro only, seeing how lifebelt, swordbelt, swiftbelt would do way better for TPing


I'm mithra with the nice DEX stat, so i don't need to overdo that trait on my EQ

Because racial stats actually matter to worth giving a damn for.

Pity those Taru melees and Elvaan mage, I'm sure they can't do anything worth shit because of their racial stats.

Guess it's a good thing you have RDM levelled, since you don't seem to know enough about THF, or melee for that matter, to be really good at it.

[kihre]

"Oh god, more puk wings!!! I'm sure that's worth the loss of 7 STR 4 DEX on SA WS!!!"

You quote me after you say this... remember i don't merit as thf? i believe i was speaking about endgame thf:


My main dagger is Stylet, my offhand is Thf Knife. Since there is rarely a time i merit as thf, i don't have a secondary DD knife to replace Thf Knife with. All other situations people only have me as Thf for TH.


I use Stylet for the high damage, low delay, and DEX. I get my +att with my back piece and merits on Dagger.

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/6709

http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/5338

please note the TP per hit and DPS. and since i don't merit on thf, yes i would like thf knife secondary. We are talking endgame here, and 99% of endgame you're around to put some TH into things. Period. I'm not replacing TH for more damage. I'm not getting a multi million gil dagger for 1% of the time.


I use Rajas and Flame ring because i dont see going past 100 dex to push damage higher, so I pump up the STR instead. This has made damage over time nicer!

"Sounds like someone has never heard of equip macros for WS, SA, and TP."

I change 3-5 pieces of EQ for SA/TA and WS, i don't need to change another for an addition 4ish points of damage. I am around 100 dex for SA and TA, i believe that's enough for giving advice to someone asking new-ish questions? And when i'm farming, i see value in having a little more inventory space than 5 empty slots.

"And if you're aiming for DoT, dual snipers owns the shit out of both of them anyway."

lol sushi


I still use Warwolf Belt, despite other people liking swift belt... All those triple attack merits kinda make up for the loss of haste% in that slot.

"Warwolf belt is strictly SA/WS macro only, seeing how lifebelt, swordbelt, swiftbelt would do way better for TPing"

Especially when i only miss 1 out of 15 swings right?


I'm mithra with the nice DEX stat, so i don't need to overdo that trait on my EQ

"Because racial stats actually matter to worth giving a damn for. Pity those Taru melees and Elvaan mage, I'm sure they can't do anything worth shit because of their racial stats."

Now putting words in my mouth? Lovely. When you are nitpicking so much on every point of dex, you can't go and say race doesn't matter when obviously Mithra has the most base dex. This will change how people will equip their characters. From trivial things like "My hume looks gay in subligar" to things as indepth as "I have 5 extra base xxx trait leveled, I'll go for haste instead of beefing that."

"Guess it's a good thing you have RDM levelled, since you don't seem to know enough about THF, or melee for that matter, to be really good at it."

I'll be sure to let Kyoya know you're playing his bard badly.

[Michaera]

please note the TP per hit and DPS

DPS on somepage is calculated by Blau Dolch's base dmg, not the latent which is active 90% of the time... Blau Dolch has far higher dps than Stylet. And yes, you get more TP swinging a Stylet per hit (marginally), but the TP scales up with delay. So duh..?

[kihre]

i thought Damage per second would account for delay, since it is timed per second?

But i've been meaning to DL a parser to figure out which is better, blah or stylet... and since i've recently come into some gil i think its a good time around now. I just don't take a lvl 22 thf seriously when he's insulting me while trying to correct me

Thanks for the input Mich

[Eaglestrike]

It doesn't account for the fact that Blau Dolch's base DMG is low, when in reality on most melee strikes it is the Latent damage that is being used. Which is why somepage's DPS page fails for that weapon.

Going by the formula somepage uses, Blau Dolch's actual DoT is just over 11 from 0-100tp, as well as acc+5 and attack+16.

[Zilong]

please note the TP per hit and DPS. and since i don't merit on thf, yes i would like thf knife secondary. We are talking endgame here, and 99% of endgame you're around to put some TH into things. Period. I'm not replacing TH for more damage. I'm not getting a multi million gil dagger for 1% of the time.

What kind of THF doesn't know about blau dolch again?

hint: it's the highest DPS dagger short of relic.

"And if you're aiming for DoT, dual snipers owns the shit out of both of them anyway."

lol sushi

Because it's impossible to miss with sushi right?

Even with sushi, you won't be hitting 95% ACC cap on any camp without tacking on some ACC gears even if you do have merit.

"Warwolf belt is strictly SA/WS macro only, seeing how lifebelt, swordbelt, swiftbelt would do way better for TPing"

Especially when i only miss 1 out of 15 swings right?

I'd comment that landing that hit that you would have missed because you have a life belt adding up to higher damage than the 1-2 damage 5 STR would give you on normal melee, then again I don't think your melee hits on your THF would hit above 15-30 damage.

I'll be sure to let Kyoya know you're playing his bard badly.

Go right ahead.

Better than your "I don't overwrite bard's lullaby with sleep II" at camp RDM

[Michaera]

i thought Damage per second would account for delay, since it is timed per second?

It does, but it's something like dmg/delay. But since they use Blau's real base damage of like 20-w/e instead of the latent dmg that you actually see most of the time, it's sorta misleading. I -think- FFXIclopedia's numbers are more accurate but I can't remember off the top o' my head atm. Glad to help though. :3

[kihre]

ya, i know blau is a very good dagger (ya most likely better than stylet) but on my server the price has dropped about 8m on it @@ didn't want to buy to parse while it was still dipping so heavy. I bought stylet from a friend a year ago at a good price and didn't want to sell it.

On my server THF doesnt get used in merit at all really, and given the option, i'd personally rather merit as RDM only because that would mean faster merits for me. Sylph blows Otherwise i would consider just keeping stylet offhand and blau main.

On a side note: i've seen thf use siroco on puks and it is HI-LARITY. After that i'd not seen a single thf in a merit pt

[Lordwafik]

wow these retarded thieves make me understand why I have to lfg for hours sometimes on THF.

[Zilong]

wow these retarded thieves make me understand why I have to lfg for hours sometimes on THF.

Do you not have Mandau: O on your search comment?

[Vobent]

wow these retarded thieves make me understand why I have to lfg for hours sometimes on THF.

Do you not have Mandau: O on your search comment?

I think it's the part of lolthief.
Or rather 75% of thieves are gimp, retarded, stupid or any combonation of you not wanting them in your party.

[Lordwafik]

wow these retarded thieves make me understand why I have to lfg for hours sometimes on THF.

Do you not have Mandau: O on your search comment?

Nope, I don't want to have to rely on a relic to get parties

I think it's the part of lolthief.
Or rather 75% of thieves are gimp, retarded, stupid or any combonation of you not wanting them in your party.

This is why. You'll get some people who actually know what they're doing, and can actually be an asset to their party, and then you get this retard posting saying to wear CHR gear for DE, and your dmg doesnt matter since you're only there for TH. Keep up that mindset and keep dragging us down.

[Zilong]

wow these retarded thieves make me understand why I have to lfg for hours sometimes on THF.

Do you not have Mandau: O on your search comment?

Nope, I don't want to have to rely on a relic to get parties

That's kind of a long shot as a THF though >_>

I've partied with a good THF once. He was actually able to put a non laughable DoT, split his SA and TA, does 1k+ damage on demons with SA or TA WS, and his non SA or TA DE was still on the 600-800 range.

I was very impressed with the said THF...but the next morning I ended up in a party with a THF using garuda/hornet combo popping 150-300 average WS...so the spectrum for good THF to bad THF seems to be unnaturaly huge...