Hydra Haubert

[freja]

congrats on your LS RUN DYNAMIS. wow you are so fucking thickheaded its unbe-fucking-leavable

i never said it was a dynamis-only shell. i think open shells like that are hurtful to the game honestly. they're based on people wanting loot, and not accomlishments and friendships.

Okay I have to chime in here. I am not a member of DynamisBums right now, though I was once in the past. I am also the current leader of what is arguably the most accomplished English speaking linkshell on Phoenix (BurningCosmossss). Now that you know where I am coming from, that I'm not talking out of my ass, I'd like to say this.

There is no linkshell on Phoenix right now that carries more respect than DynamisBums. This includes my own HNM linkshell. I would agree that in general open linkshells like this may be bad if the leaders and members were weak, but DB was not. It was founded by two incredibly respected individuals (Fatman and Radav). They were purely driven to carry the linkshell through many great accomplishments. Hell, outside the linkshell many of its members were competitors at Kings camps, but when Wednesdays and Sundays rolled around, everyone became on friendly terms. Another incredibly accomplished NA HNM linkshell, Dawn, and us had many members become close friends through this, to the point where many members of Dawn have BC pearls, and vice versa, just to chat with each other.

DynamisBums has paved the way for many friendships on Phoenix, in which there would probably have been little communication and heated competition otherwise. I have lots of friends on Phoenix in DB that do not belong to my linkshell, and I talk very little with people outside, simply because I don't get the chance to often. Now it's been a long time since I attended a DB event, and it is not the fault of the linkshell at all. The LS was wonderful, and I thought it was run very well. I just hated Dynamis itself, and found it incredibly boring, and hated committing 3 hours twice a week just to go through it over and over.

DynamisBums was also one of the most objective-oriented linkshells on the server. Fatman was nuts to push the linkshell to kill DynamisLord. And the members of the linkshell really WANTED to kill it, because they held Fatman with that much respect. When the CoP Dynamis's came out, DB went straight to tackle them right away. They still regularly do Dynamis-Tavnazia, when many others stopped doing it after the first few times. Why? The loot there blows. It's because the linkshell IS about accomplishments, and will continue to work on that.

So no, I do not agree with your statement that an open linkshell is always greed-driven. Granted we had a few greedy assholes come through DB during its time, but what linkshell doesn't get those? DB has done more for friendships of individuals on the server than any other linkshell I can think of, and has served to unite several HNM ls's before.

Contrary to the beliefs of anonymous trolls, many NA linkshells on Phoenix aren't too weak to do Dynamis on their own. Their members choose to go with other linkshells out of respect. Most of BC attends with DynamisBums, and they do so because they respect the linkshell, and respect the leaders.

[freja]

double post

[Sagus]

No, the MEMBERS have the responsibility to correct the rule as they see fit.

so you think SAM should get Sash?

If that's what all the members think is fair, then who am I to say otherwise?

Agreed. If the AGREED UPON BY ALL MEMBERS rules leave open the possibility of a sam lotting and getting the sash over any other job, then yes, if that sam has the point/seniority/whatever your LS uses to determine who gets what, the sam should get the sash.

I personally do not think a sam should get Sash over nin/pld/war IF that LS uses wars to tank, but if that LS rules let him, and the members agree on those rules, then it's it perfectly within that sam's right to lot.

[Lordwafik]

congrats on your LS RUN DYNAMIS. wow you are so fucking thickheaded its unbe-fucking-leavable

i never said it was a dynamis-only shell. i think open shells like that are hurtful to the game honestly. they're based on people wanting loot, and not accomlishments and friendships.

But that's what LS's are all about, bullshit aside, people want their items. How is a LS soley focused on farming zones that only drop items, detrimental when people are all focusing on one aspect?

My "open" shell has been running for over a year now, and is one of the only LS's to complete 10/10 dynamis zones on asura.

[aurik]

Becuase only greedy lootwhores would lot an item they would get little benifit from, over some1 who would put it to use daily. Are those the kind of people you want in your shell?

First off, paladin wouldn't have got the item anyway if Kain had passed, because a DRK had the next highest lot and wasn't intending to pass either.

Second, nobody wants "greedy lootwhores", but from the testimonials of DB members here, he's not, especially in the light that the haubert wouldn't have gone to a PLD anyway.

[Xerlic]

Say you threw a bag of money out into the street and said anyone can have this. Then you saw a rich guy driving a Porsche run over a homeless guy, take the bag of money, and drive off. Would you be surprised?

Obviously, paladin would make the most use out of this piece by far. But you can't expect everyone to play the good guy and pass the gear to the jobs that can make the best use out of it, especially if it will go to someone from a rival linkshell and especially if they are entitled to lot on it. As many have already said, this isn't about giving the gear to the people who can make the most use out of it. This is about people in your linkshell operating within the framework that the leaders of your linkshell have set up. You cannot hold them accountable or even be surprised when they lot on stuff that the rules clearly say that they can lot on.

If this really does upset your linkshell as a whole, you probably should do something about it with your rules since it has the potential to happen again.

[aurik]

i think open shells like that are hurtful to the game honestly. they're based on people wanting loot, and not accomlishments and friendships.

Does anyone else see the incredibly thick irony in that an influential member of excellence from hades just said that?

[freja]

If this really does upset your linkshell as a whole, you probably should do something about it with your rules since it has the potential to happen again.

I think that's one of the points Aurik was trying to make. DB as a whole was not upset by this incident. Neosutra posted a thread on the DB forums, and I believe every non-Neosutra post, from members and leaders alike, were fine with the outcome. I didn't see anyone totally outraged over it, and most people seemed okay with Kain winning.

[Izzy]

haha man your servers must be pretty bad if NOONE from different ls's can get along...phoenix is really good about that stuff actually.

[Kainen]

congrats on your LS RUN DYNAMIS. wow you are so fucking thickheaded its unbe-fucking-leavable

i never said it was a dynamis-only shell. i think open shells like that are hurtful to the game honestly. they're based on people wanting loot, and not accomlishments and friendships.

But that's what LS's are all about, bullshit aside, people want their items. How is a LS soley focused on farming zones that only drop items, detrimental when people are all focusing on one aspect?

My "open" shell has been running for over a year now, and is one of the only LS's to complete 10/10 dynamis zones on asura.

yours is different wafik. it's a manaburn ls. its different and creative and i'm sure fun beyond measure.

people want their items, yes. but there is a point of wanting too much.

now if kain offered to pass if the 2nd in line passed so it could go to a pld, then its the person 2nd in line who was the lootwhore.

[Weeks]

Aren't about 99% of Dynamis shells designed to attract a bunch of loot whores who are too busy chasing their Wyrm Armets to realize that the half-dozen upgraders in the shell are robbing everyone else blind anyway? Why is anyone surprised when it leads to garbage like this?

[Izzy]

wafik, i dont think kuno is awake anymore, can you change the account name to Izzy or Izzypookins, prefrabley Izzy if its avalible.

[Kainen]

i think open shells like that are hurtful to the game honestly. they're based on people wanting loot, and not accomlishments and friendships.

Does anyone else see the incredibly thick irony in that an influential member of excellence from hades just said that?

i'm not gonna deny that we had our share of lootwhores go in and out of Excellence. but in the end, it was always in and out, and never just in. the core/majority of that shell plays the game the right way and has been together for a very long time.

[Lordwafik]

congrats on your LS RUN DYNAMIS. wow you are so fucking thickheaded its unbe-fucking-leavable

i never said it was a dynamis-only shell. i think open shells like that are hurtful to the game honestly. they're based on people wanting loot, and not accomlishments and friendships.

But that's what LS's are all about, bullshit aside, people want their items. How is a LS soley focused on farming zones that only drop items, detrimental when people are all focusing on one aspect?

My "open" shell has been running for over a year now, and is one of the only LS's to complete 10/10 dynamis zones on asura.

yours is different wafik. it's a manaburn ls. its different and creative and i'm sure fun beyond measure.

people want their items, yes. but there is a point of wanting too much.

now if kain offered to pass if the 2nd in line passed so it could go to a pld, then its the person 2nd in line who was the lootwhore.

What's so different though, after a few manaburn runs it's the same thing really, /assist Lordwafik, IV what he says, repeat for 3.5hours. People are only/Mainly there for the items, and I acknowledge that, and won't try convincing myself otherwise because it's not a negative thing.

Everyone wants their items, I won't shun someone for being honest about it, nor do I make anyone who legitimately put their time in feel guilty when they leave - my LS is not a prison, unlike my last HNMLS who think my crimson body is their leash for me.

[freja]

Also to everyone getting FURIOUS over an incident like this, think of it this way.

DynamisBums has probably the least amount of drama ever. I can only think of 3 cases in its history over the last 2 and a half years where there was drama. Compare that to ANY HNM linkshell out there and you'll see where its impressive record stands.

It seems like ALL of the people that are furious with Kain are OUTSIDE of DB. Now if the people IN the linkshell were upset, maybe there'd be something to talk about. The fact that nobody (cept the OP) in the ls is complaining (and not because the linkshell punishes you for voicing your opinion either, its happened before and people know its safe), suggests that maybe, JUST MAYBE, they know the situation and are comfortable with the outcome because it went exactly by the book! The linkshell rules are there for all to see, and everyone knows it when attending a run.

This linkshell is successful. Is it mostly based off of people wanting items? Yes. All linkshells are that way. However, it is drama-free, and it is fun, and it is successful! People go there to do Dynamis. And Dynamis gets done! It gets done well!

[Kainen]

i have no problem with people who earned items leaving if they want. but they won't be allowed back in.

as i said, people want items. 'greed is good' to a certain point. but when people are fucking over others to get items they will never use, then the shell/sackholders need to evaluate the rules for the betterment of the LS.

[Kainen]

Also to everyone getting FURIOUS over an incident like this, think of it this way.

DynamisBums has probably the least amount of drama ever. I can only think of 3 cases in its history over the last 2 and a half years where there was drama. Compare that to ANY HNM linkshell out there and you'll see where its impressive record stands.

It seems like ALL of the people that are furious with Kain are OUTSIDE of DB. Now if the people IN the linkshell were upset, maybe there'd be something to talk about. The fact that nobody (cept the OP) in the ls is complaining (and not because the linkshell punishes you for voicing your opinion either, its happened before and people know its safe), suggests that maybe, JUST MAYBE, they know the situation and are comfortable with the outcome because it went exactly by the book! The linkshell rules are there for all to see, and everyone knows it when attending a run.

This linkshell is successful. Is it mostly based off of people wanting items? Yes. All linkshells are that way. However, it is drama-free, and it is fun, and it is successful! People go there to do Dynamis. And Dynamis gets done! It gets done well!

i'm not debating that they are successful. but would it not benefit the LS more as a whole if a PLD got that item? would they not be that much better?

[Kurp]

i'm not debating that they are successful. but would it not benefit the LS more as a whole if a PLD got that item? would they not be that much better?

I don't think a Hydra Haubert on a PLD in Dynamis is going to be much of a difference maker. And as far as the 'betterment' of the shell is concerned, I think a lotting system that is well recieved by its members would go much further towards that goal than to go against members wishes and edit the rules to make sure a PLD would recieve the Haubert.

[freja]

i'm not debating that they are successful. but would it not benefit the LS more as a whole if a PLD got that item? would they not be that much better?

My point is, if the linkshell felt the thing was mishandled, the linkshell would have spoken up. They felt it was fair, and they hold Kain in no ill-regard for getting the item. Now would the linkshell be hypothetically better if a PLD had gotten the drop? Yes. However, in reality, it would probably make little to no difference. The linkshell can succeed in just about every area of dynamis without their PLDs wearing that, and the linkshell believes that Kain deserved the item (unless only the really quiet people are the ones that are protesting). So what does it boil down to? People wanting cool, rare crap.

So the linkshell is perfectly happy with Kain taking home this illustrious, rare item. Therefore, it does not matter if the Haubert going to a PLD would increase linkshell effectiveness by 0.1%. Kain was deserving of it in accordance to their rules, and nobody save Neosutra seemed to be joshed by it.

[Kainen]

i'm not debating that they are successful. but would it not benefit the LS more as a whole if a PLD got that item? would they not be that much better?

My point is, if the linkshell felt the thing was mishandled, the linkshell would have spoken up. They felt it was fair, and they hold Kain in no ill-regard for getting the item. Now would the linkshell be hypothetically better if a PLD had gotten the drop? Yes. However, in reality, it would probably make little to no difference. The linkshell can succeed in just about every area of dynamis without their PLDs wearing that, and the linkshell believes that Kain deserved the item (unless only the really quiet people are the ones that are protesting). So what does it boil down to? People wanting cool, rare crap.

So the linkshell is perfectly happy with Kain taking home this illustrious, rare item. Therefore, it does not matter if the Haubert going to a PLD would increase linkshell effectiveness by 0.1%. Kain was deserving of it in accordance to their rules, and nobody save Neosutra seemed to be joshed by it.

i have a differnet outlook on things i guess. i am a perfectionist. i don't believe in 'good enough'.

its an open shell, people want their loot. they're not gonna make a fuss about it cause they want their loot too. hense why i disagree with open shells (in most situations).