MNDs effects on Magic Defense

[Seditedi]

Also take into consideration, MND gear vs. Astral Flow or something in limbus, with barspell only I'll usually take some damage through stoneskin, with MND + barspell rarely will it break my stoneskin... MND definitely plays a factor in resist rates.

[Celeras]

Well since this is a newbie thread, I guess theres no one to blame for this blasphemy going on. Lets clear things up:

Resist: Casters Elemental Skill vs. Targets Mnd
Damage: Casters Int vs. Targets Int

Int doesnt play a factor in resist rate. Mnd will help resists the same way that Bar Spells do, aka not MDB.

[Uzor]

Personally, I'd have to say MND does matter... I'm a MND whore, and I always seem to take less damage then everyone else <.<;

Although that might be a placebo effect, as my bar-spells seem to be more effective aswell >.>; Either that or no WHMes except me ever bother to merit bar-spell efficiency <.<;

[Delekii]

Well since this is a newbie thread, I guess theres no one to blame for this blasphemy going on. Lets clear things up:

Resist: Casters Elemental Skill vs. Targets Mnd
Damage: Casters Int vs. Targets Int

Int doesnt play a factor in resist rate. Mnd will help resists the same way that Bar Spells do, aka not MDB.

Of course, you have more than the fact that you say it to back this up, right? Right?

Wrong. Again (for the third time?), go and nuke Kirin in full elemental gear compared to elemental and int mix, you will get better results with the int. Caster Int plays a part in resists, however small it is

[RKenshin]

I don't know for certain or personal experience, but I'm almost sure that the BLMs in my LS stacking tons of Elemental Skill gear get the best results with resist rates, where as the ones that focus more on INT and the like will resist more often (but when they don't resist it hits hard).

A perfect example is that in longer fights, one of the BLMs that often does the most damage simply from the least resists is Lhexh (and probably survivability), an Elvaan. I'm pretty sure he also has the most elemental skill gear (and almost always uses all of it), or is at least among the top few.

INT may have something to do with it, but it seems it would be so small that it wouldn't really matter much in comparison to how much elemental skill you have.

I see Ruke using MND gear with his Magic Resist setup on Bahamut's Flares, so I would assume it works on BLM spells as well.

I'm mainly interested in this for Bahamut V.2, my setup works fine already for Proto-Ultima. It's more just nit picking for maximum efficiency at this point.

There was actually a pretty long discussion about this on that LJ update, and originally I just assumed it was MND based off of what I've read. I've never actually tried to do a comparison of any kind to get some sort of accurate test results though, but I said I would try to if possible.

As it is right now I sort of just use both INT/MND, I think around +15 to 25 of each without replacing anything important. Personally I think they both effect it in some way, just not sure how, nor do I really have concrete evidence of it. Until then I just alternate or use both at once.

So would CHR give resistance vs. Songs?

Almost certain it does based on a test I read, there was a post a while back where a BRD experimented on Jailer of Fortitude. He would sing Virelea (sp?) to have JoF reflect it back onto him, but it would always fail. After removing all of his CHR gear, it worked. So it's safe to assume it does.

[Lhexh]

INT certainly does affect resist rates, not to the effect that Elemental Magic does, but any BLM that's fought Kirin with and without INT Etudes can notice the difference. Here is a link to LJ from a BLM on my server who scraped some information from a JP wiki about a 72 BLM that tested Aero spells on ( I think )Dhalmels in Bibiki Bay. It's a pretty simple crude test that any BLM could perform to verify, and while the sample sizes arent large enough to draw any conclusive proof, it at least shows enough deviation to warrant further testing.

http://iresire.livejournal.com/32369.html

[RKenshin]

Well, Lhexh straightened it up lol..

[Celeras]

Well since this is a newbie thread, I guess theres no one to blame for this blasphemy going on. Lets clear things up:

Resist: Casters Elemental Skill vs. Targets Mnd
Damage: Casters Int vs. Targets Int

Int doesnt play a factor in resist rate. Mnd will help resists the same way that Bar Spells do, aka not MDB.

Of course, you have more than the fact that you say it to back this up, right? Right?

Wrong. Again (for the third time?), go and nuke Kirin in full elemental gear compared to elemental and int mix, you will get better results with the int. Caster Int plays a part in resists, however small it is

I really don't care enough about this to argue it, considering its not even the point of the thread. But nuking Kirin in full elemental gear is bar-none the stupidest thing I have ever heard coming from this forum.

And just for the record, regarding the LJ examining some Japanese information from 2004(lol.... are you kidding me?) may I point out that the tester was a level 72 Blackmage testing on Ark Angel Tarutaru? Let me say that again: Level 72, on AA:TT, in March of 2004.

Dont know why Lhexh said Dhamels in Bibiki Bay, because bibiki wasn't even in the game at the time this test was done.

[Delekii]

Well since this is a newbie thread, I guess theres no one to blame for this blasphemy going on. Lets clear things up:

Resist: Casters Elemental Skill vs. Targets Mnd
Damage: Casters Int vs. Targets Int

Int doesnt play a factor in resist rate. Mnd will help resists the same way that Bar Spells do, aka not MDB.

Of course, you have more than the fact that you say it to back this up, right? Right?

Wrong. Again (for the third time?), go and nuke Kirin in full elemental gear compared to elemental and int mix, you will get better results with the int. Caster Int plays a part in resists, however small it is

I really don't care enough about this to argue it, considering its not even the point of the thread. But nuking Kirin in full elemental gear is bar-none the stupidest thing I have ever heard coming from this forum.

That doesnt make any sense at all. First you say that Elemental Skill vs MND affects resist rate, not INT+Elemental Skill vs MND, and then you say that nuking in Elemental Skill is stupid... which is it?

If elemental skill is the ONLY thing that affects resist rate, then nuking kirin in full elemental gear is the logical way to reduce resists to their minimum.

If wearing some INT and some Elemental gear gives better resist rate than full Elemental, then INT affects resists.

[Lhexh]

Bleah, that's what I get for asking a friend with basic entry level JP to help interpet it, and he mentions Dhalmel and I make the assumption Bibiki Bay completing forgetting about the timeline.

Regardless of the age of the data, it at least provides some tangible reference to suggest INT does affect resist rates, which is more than what most people on either side of the fence have done up till now in this discussion or any of the previous ones concerning INT and resist rates. It's a nice and easy test that can be easily applied by anyone on a more suitable mob, and I'm sure someone will take the time to do reproduce it eventually to prove this one way or the other.

[Celeras]

Well since this is a newbie thread, I guess theres no one to blame for this blasphemy going on. Lets clear things up:

Resist: Casters Elemental Skill vs. Targets Mnd
Damage: Casters Int vs. Targets Int

Int doesnt play a factor in resist rate. Mnd will help resists the same way that Bar Spells do, aka not MDB.

Of course, you have more than the fact that you say it to back this up, right? Right?

Wrong. Again (for the third time?), go and nuke Kirin in full elemental gear compared to elemental and int mix, you will get better results with the int. Caster Int plays a part in resists, however small it is

I really don't care enough about this to argue it, considering its not even the point of the thread. But nuking Kirin in full elemental gear is bar-none the stupidest thing I have ever heard coming from this forum.

That doesnt make any sense at all. First you say that Elemental Skill vs MND affects resist rate, not INT+Elemental Skill vs MND, and then you say that nuking in Elemental Skill is stupid... which is it?

If elemental skill is the ONLY thing that affects resist rate, then nuking kirin in full elemental gear is the logical way to reduce resists to their minimum.

If wearing some INT and some Elemental gear gives better resist rate than full Elemental, then INT affects resists.

What are you trying to discredit me or something? Pretty poor attempt, because it shows you have a complete lack of understanding.

Its stupid because youre going to get resists on kirin either way. Stack all the skill gear you want, its going to happen fairly often. Which coincidently, is also the reason why hes a TERRIBLE enemy to be gauging your resist rate on in the first place.

You'll parse the best with a healthy medium between skill and int, thats blackmage 101.

[Palin]

Well since this is a newbie thread, I guess theres no one to blame for this blasphemy going on. Lets clear things up:

Resist: Casters Elemental Skill vs. Targets Mnd
Damage: Casters Int vs. Targets Int

Int doesnt play a factor in resist rate. Mnd will help resists the same way that Bar Spells do, aka not MDB.

Of course, you have more than the fact that you say it to back this up, right? Right?

Wrong. Again (for the third time?), go and nuke Kirin in full elemental gear compared to elemental and int mix, you will get better results with the int. Caster Int plays a part in resists, however small it is

I really don't care enough about this to argue it, considering its not even the point of the thread. But nuking Kirin in full elemental gear is bar-none the stupidest thing I have ever heard coming from this forum.

That doesnt make any sense at all. First you say that Elemental Skill vs MND affects resist rate, not INT+Elemental Skill vs MND, and then you say that nuking in Elemental Skill is stupid... which is it?

If elemental skill is the ONLY thing that affects resist rate, then nuking kirin in full elemental gear is the logical way to reduce resists to their minimum.

If wearing some INT and some Elemental gear gives better resist rate than full Elemental, then INT affects resists.

What are you trying to discredit me or something? Pretty poor attempt, because it shows you have a complete lack of understanding.

Its stupid because youre going to get resists on kirin either way. Stack all the skill gear you want, its going to happen fairly often. Which coincidently, is also the reason why hes a TERRIBLE enemy to be gauging your resist rate on in the first place.

You'll parse the best with a healthy medium between skill and int, thats blackmage 101.

How does that work? You're gonna get resisted so might as well make your nukes do a few points more of damage, but at the same time give yourself more resists? Circular logic ftl.

Sure you can say you're always going to get resists, but you and I have no clue what cap that resist rate is, and you have no idea if putting on extra Ele magic is a waste due to hitting that resist cap, or if it helps your accuracy and could potentially outweigh all the extra damage from the INT added by eliminating one resist.

[Celeras]

[quote=Palin]

Well since this is a newbie thread, I guess theres no one to blame for this blasphemy going on. Lets clear things up:

Resist: Casters Elemental Skill vs. Targets Mnd
Damage: Casters Int vs. Targets Int

Int doesnt play a factor in resist rate. Mnd will help resists the same way that Bar Spells do, aka not MDB.

Of course, you have more than the fact that you say it to back this up, right? Right?

Wrong. Again (for the third time?), go and nuke Kirin in full elemental gear compared to elemental and int mix, you will get better results with the int. Caster Int plays a part in resists, however small it is

I really don't care enough about this to argue it, considering its not even the point of the thread. But nuking Kirin in full elemental gear is bar-none the stupidest thing I have ever heard coming from this forum.

That doesnt make any sense at all. First you say that Elemental Skill vs MND affects resist rate, not INT+Elemental Skill vs MND, and then you say that nuking in Elemental Skill is stupid... which is it?

If elemental skill is the ONLY thing that affects resist rate, then nuking kirin in full elemental gear is the logical way to reduce resists to their minimum.

If wearing some INT and some Elemental gear gives better resist rate than full Elemental, then INT affects resists.

What are you trying to discredit me or something? Pretty poor attempt, because it shows you have a complete lack of understanding.

Its stupid because youre going to get resists on kirin either way. Stack all the skill gear you want, its going to happen fairly often. Which coincidently, is also the reason why hes a TERRIBLE enemy to be gauging your resist rate on in the first place.

You'll parse the best with a healthy medium between skill and int, thats blackmage 101.

How does that work? You're gonna get resisted so might as well make your nukes do a few points more of damage, but at the same time give yourself more resists? Circular logic ftl.

Sure you can say you're always going to get resists, but you and I have no clue what cap that resist rate is, and you have no idea if putting on extra Ele magic is a waste due to hitting that resist cap, or if it helps your accuracy and could potentially outweigh all the damage the extra INT added throughout the entire fight by eliminating one resist.[/quote:6d051]

So you'll stack elemental gear, get resisted anyway and throw any chance of a decent unresisted nuke out the window?

Theres absolutely zero slots on a blackmage that should be any question. 5 int vs. 7 elemental skill? 3 elemental skill vs 5 MAB? Is this actually being discussed?

[Delekii]

Nashira vs Yigit feet
Demon Helm+1/AF+1 vs Elite beret/+1
Igqira vs Mahatma
Merciful vs Prism
Abyssal vs Elemental
Torque vs Torque

You say youll get resisted anyway, but you dont sound like you have really tried it. Say your nuke does 800 damage without DD gear on, and 850-860 with it on... it only takes 1 resist less in 15 casts to come out on top. Seems incredibly worth it to me to work toward lowering resists first, and "chucking some dd in for the heck of it" second.

[Palin]

That's like a melee putting on all STR gear for normal hits just because putting on ACC gear potentially throws away doing extra damage on a hit. What do you think actually does more damage over the course of the fight, hitting for 400 7/10 of the time or hitting for 500 5/10. Fifty% resist rate is pretty generous too. Just like everything, consistency > big numbers over time.

As for your gear choices, What are you talking about 5 MAB vs 3 Skill? 5 INT vs 7 Skill on an HNM is a clear victory Elemental Torque all the same. The only debateable slot for BLM is Mahatma Slops over Druid's Slops. The other options such as Zenith vs AF1, Prudence Torque vs Ele Torque, when you're fighting something like Bahamut 2 or Kirin, its not even debateable, Ele skill all the way.

[Celeras]

Seems incredibly worth it to me to work toward lowering resists first, and "chucking some dd in for the heck of it" second.

Of course, but not on Kirin. Take the big chunks of skill where you can get them, but nuking in full elemental gear is reeeeetarded.

Anywho I don't really care to discuss this any further, just wanted to clear up what was said on the LJ. Good luck with any further testing.

[Seditedi]

Nashira feet vs. Yigit feet, id def go Nashira for Kirin also.

You really don't lose THAT much from full going in ele skill gear, a BLM going in heavy ele skill is gonna do much better than Kirin than one nuking in Zenith Mitts over time. Dunno why you are saying its sooo retarded to nuke full ele skill.

[Kyreth]

Relatively ancedotal evidence, but MND is definitely White, INT Black related as far as resist/potency goes.

I spent a long time leveling on worms as a Tarutaru RDM, nuking EM-IT ones in K-tunnel. I'd be eating pies (+INT) and using a wand (+INT/+MND) to do so.

If I failed to get the INT boost from the pies, my average damage per nuke dropped and my nuke resist rate increased, but my Silences stuck normally.

If I forgot to equip the wand, my Silence resist rate AND my nuke damage/resist rate worsened.

That's from doing a few levels worth solo, hitting 180ish-200xp per worm. From the experience, I'd say INT does have something to do with resist rate and definitely potency for Black, MND the same for White.

But... I usually Shock monsters when soloing with Ice Spikes up and notice a significant increase in Paralyze procs doing so. And Spikes is Black. WTF?

(Edit for missing "But...")

[Xaru]

But... I usually Shock monsters when soloing with Ice Spikes up and notice a significant increase in Paralyze procs doing so. And Spikes is Black. WTF?

The effect of Paralyze is still classed as white magic and uses MND as a factor, even though the method that it's administered is via the black magic spells.

[VZX]

FYI, Magic Hammer and Mind Blast seems to be MND based (base damage depends on MND difference)