PLD Update Effects

[Rocl]

Aerial Armor? Do you still watch TV in black and white too?

[Garret]

I think you missed my immense sarcasm Wafik.

[Lordwafik]

must have ;p

[Garret]

That's ok, I still <3 you.

[Aelfinn]

eww galka love... carefull wafik, he's dirty.

[Sidanoir]

How am I talking out of my ass? I am sorry that we find PLD/WAR tanks viable for when we do Tiamat....apparently doing something different than what others do is wrong...my apologies for being stuck in the 60s lol..bottom line is having not seen PLD/NIN in action vs Tiamat executed properly, its harder to make accurate statements...hence the reason why people have discussions/arguments about strategies, sometimes good comes out of it.....

PLD/NIN does get hit less than PLD/WAR, but PLD/NIN does get harder...unless you think otherwise...

No I don't watch TV in black and white still dammit!

In any event, there is more than one working strategy for lots of things an the game, and thats what can keep stuff fun/interesting...instead of mindlessly SMN zerging Tiamat with PLD/NIN tanks all the time, we have tried varying setups, PLD/WAR works best for us...what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all.

[Garret]

PLD/NIN does get hit less than PLD/WAR, but PLD/NIN does get harder...unless you think otherwise...

While Pld/Nin will get hit harder, the difference is not substantial because of Vit/Def being relatively broken stats in terms of effectiveness, while a certain amount *is* helpful and the loss of Defender *is* noticeable it is not really an *immense* difference, and what difference there is is more than made up for by Pld/Nin receiving far fewer direct attacks than Pld/War would, if your point is about damage, then Pld/Nin takes significantly less damage than Pld/War in the course of a fight.

[Rocl]

No I don't watch TV in black and white still dammit!

And to think I thought I had found my other half ;;

[Sidanoir]

PLD/NIN does get hit less than PLD/WAR, but PLD/NIN does get harder...unless you think otherwise...

While Pld/Nin will get hit harder, the difference is not substantial because of Vit/Def being relatively broken stats in terms of effectiveness, while a certain amount *is* helpful and the loss of Defender *is* noticeable it is not really an *immense* difference, and what difference there is is more than made up for by Pld/Nin receiving far fewer direct attacks than Pld/War would, if your point is about damage, then Pld/Nin takes significantly less damage than Pld/War in the course of a fight.

Wasn't about damage over course of fight was about damage during a single hit..

And yes defense is retardedly broken and has vastly diminishing returns..

I'm sorry Rocl, what if I told you im color blind techincally I watch everything in black and white!

[Garret]

Wasn't about damage over course of fight was about damage during a single hit..

While I realize that you were referring to damage in a single hit I am saying that overall damage taken is a more important factor.

A single bad shot needs only minimally more healing, in comparison to the healing needed for a Pld/War, however, because Pld/War will take considerably more damage over the course of the fight they will require substantially more healing & support to maintain themselves.

Pld/Nin is also not going to take hundreds more damage in a single attack, which would be quite noticeable.

[Sidanoir]

Wasn't about damage over course of fight was about damage during a single hit..

While I realize that you were referring to damage in a single hit I am saying that overall damage taken is a more important factor.

A single bad shot needs only minimally more healing, in comparison to the healing needed for a Pld/War, however, because Pld/War will take considerably more damage over the course of the fight they will require substantially more healing & support to maintain themselves.

Pld/Nin is also not going to take hundreds more damage in a single attack, which would be quite noticeable.

They would during a sub 25% Tiamat Mighty Strikes hit granted Mighty Strikes = lolSentinel owned now...and yes PLD/WAR takes more healing and yes how much damage taken over time inevitably matters more for long fights..not arguing what you said, just clarying what I meant..

Hate loss when hit is determined by % of hp you are hit for...

To be honest getting hit 3-4 times on one tank doesn't even happen on the ground when we do aerial armor..so basically the tanks can cure themselves, not much unlike the 1-2 times probably a PLD/NIN would get hit
Then again Tiamat is capable of just about 2 shotting at low hp...

[Heian]

This last update make me almost want to come back.

[Sidanoir]

This last update make me almost want to come back.

DO IT! Its pretty hot update and hopefully a sign of things to come

[Krandor]

Wasn't about damage over course of fight was about damage during a single hit..

While I realize that you were referring to damage in a single hit I am saying that overall damage taken is a more important factor.

A single bad shot needs only minimally more healing, in comparison to the healing needed for a Pld/War, however, because Pld/War will take considerably more damage over the course of the fight they will require substantially more healing & support to maintain themselves.

Pld/Nin is also not going to take hundreds more damage in a single attack, which would be quite noticeable.

They would during a sub 25% Tiamat Mighty Strikes hit granted Mighty Strikes = lolSentinel owned now...and yes PLD/WAR takes more healing and yes how much damage taken over time inevitably matters more for long fights..not arguing what you said, just clarying what I meant..

Hate loss when hit is determined by % of hp you are hit for...

To be honest getting hit 3-4 times on one tank doesn't even happen on the ground when we do aerial armor..so basically the tanks can cure themselves, not much unlike the 1-2 times probably a PLD/NIN would get hit
Then again Tiamat is capable of just about 2 shotting at low hp...

You just gave a rebuttal to your own argument that PLD/WAR is better by saying that Sentinel now is pretty much going to negate the effects of Mighty Strikes, and said they still take more healing and take more damage, I'm confused as to why this is better then a couple PLD/NIN or NIN/DRK etc blinking out all the hits and being in control of their own shadows in situations Xavier already addressed.

[solsovly]

How am I talking out of my ass? I am sorry that we find PLD/WAR tanks viable for when we do Tiamat....apparently doing something different than what others do is wrong...my apologies for being stuck in the 60s lol..bottom line is having not seen PLD/NIN in action vs Tiamat executed properly, its harder to make accurate statements...hence the reason why people have discussions/arguments about strategies, sometimes good comes out of it.....

PLD/NIN does get hit less than PLD/WAR, but PLD/NIN does get harder...unless you think otherwise...

No I don't watch TV in black and white still dammit!

In any event, there is more than one working strategy for lots of things an the game, and thats what can keep stuff fun/interesting...instead of mindlessly SMN zerging Tiamat with PLD/NIN tanks all the time, we have tried varying setups, PLD/WAR works best for us...what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all.

It's kinda funny that you are talking about different and unique setups. You do realize that AA rotations were probably the original way people were beating Tiamet with right? PLD/WAR can work, that's fine. I'm sure anyone who was killing Tiamet on any regular basis last year can tell you they did it mostly with PLD/WAR and NIN/WAR with AA rotations. This is not a flame, I'm just pointing out the fact that almost anyone that's been around the last year or two has probably seen both sides of the coin. You havn't and are arguing like you've had experience with both.

[Sidanoir]

Wasn't about damage over course of fight was about damage during a single hit..

While I realize that you were referring to damage in a single hit I am saying that overall damage taken is a more important factor.

A single bad shot needs only minimally more healing, in comparison to the healing needed for a Pld/War, however, because Pld/War will take considerably more damage over the course of the fight they will require substantially more healing & support to maintain themselves.

Pld/Nin is also not going to take hundreds more damage in a single attack, which would be quite noticeable.

They would during a sub 25% Tiamat Mighty Strikes hit granted Mighty Strikes = lolSentinel owned now...and yes PLD/WAR takes more healing and yes how much damage taken over time inevitably matters more for long fights..not arguing what you said, just clarying what I meant..

Hate loss when hit is determined by % of hp you are hit for...

To be honest getting hit 3-4 times on one tank doesn't even happen on the ground when we do aerial armor..so basically the tanks can cure themselves, not much unlike the 1-2 times probably a PLD/NIN would get hit
Then again Tiamat is capable of just about 2 shotting at low hp...

You just gave a rebuttal to your own argument that PLD/WAR is better by saying that Sentinel now is pretty much going to negate the effects of Mighty Strikes, and said they still take more healing and take more damage, I'm confused as to why this is better then a couple PLD/NIN or NIN/DRK etc blinking out all the hits and being in control of their own shadows in situations Xavier already addressed.

PLD/WAR was made better, but it also improved PLD/NIN if shadows were down.
Like I have said....its what has worked for us does not mean it is the best or most efficient strategy out there. Utsusemi is 100% reliable aerial armor is not, I know all the drawbacks about it, but its still something that works for us. Our PLD/NIN are not also main job NIN..and don't have the most experience blink tanking so it could be "risky"...our normal NINs are rarely on when Tiamat pops, so we have been sticking to what is comfortable for us..we used to exclusively NIN tank Tiamat

Stuff like Hydra/Cerberus we go PLD/NIN, so they are gaining experience in that.

[Krandor]

So people without NIN at 75 don't know how to blink tank? News to me.

[Sidanoir]

So people without NIN at 75 don't know how to blink tank? News to me.

Some people with NIN at 75 suck at blink tanking, or is that news to you to?

[Heian]

This last update make me almost want to come back.

DO IT! Its pretty hot update and hopefully a sign of things to come

I'm not farming over 75 mil in gear/gil again.

[Asherek]

How am I talking out of my ass? I am sorry that we find PLD/WAR tanks viable for when we do Tiamat....

Noone is saying that PLD/WAR isn't viable. Hell it's been done, you're not the first LS to use/continue to use it. Continue to do so if you want/works for you, noone's even arguing that.

bottom line is having not seen PLD/NIN in action vs Tiamat executed properly, its harder to make accurate statements...

The argument was about PLD/NIN hate vs. PLD/WAR hate. You yourself have admitted to not seeing PLD/NIN used properly / with shitty tanks who are incapable of learning how to use PLD/NIN correctly. So really, any arguments you have about PLD/WAR hate vs. PLD/NIN hate are baseless.

PLD/NIN does get hit less than PLD/WAR, but PLD/NIN does get harder...unless you think otherwise...

Sure it gets hit harder per hit, but frankly it doesn't matter because it's not hard to survive till Ni recast is back up if you're unable to recast Ichi.

However, with the new update, that should never be the case. You have Sentinel for massive damage reduction in conjunction with not being interrupted with Shield Blocks. It's really not that hard putting Ichi or Ni back up now as /NIN (not that it ever really was, but now it's just stupidly easy).

In any event, there is more than one working strategy for lots of things an the game, and thats what can keep stuff fun/interesting...instead of mindlessly SMN zerging Tiamat with PLD/NIN tanks all the time, we have tried varying setups, PLD/WAR works best for us...what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all.

I'm sorry, I find it mindless to stick to only one subjob for PLD, as well as the fact that I find it mindless to essentially "waste" 3 people's time in order to create a proper AA rotation so tanks can stay alive, instead of having them far more self-sufficient. Tit for tat. I can make that same argument back at you.

Again, I doubt anyone was saying that you SHOULD use PLD/NIN, I don't believe that was even the argument. It was just that PLD/NIN far outclasses PLD/WAR for most things now, in terms of manpower required and self-sufficiency, as well as overall smoothness of fights and in terms of hate as well. You can argue all you want on how PLD/WAR works fine for you, which is fine and dandy, but that doesn't change the fact that for the majority that PLD/NIN is a far better job combo because it takes less dependance on 3 other people in order to stay alive.