PLD Update Effects

[Krandor]

So people without NIN at 75 don't know how to blink tank? News to me.

Some people with NIN at 75 suck at blink tanking, or is that news to you to?

It's a poor defense as to why your PLDs can't apparently /NIN on big monsters. My first time ever trying PLD/NIN was on a Tiamat with 0 experience on it beforehand, and at the time my NIN was sitting in the 40 something range.

Edit: Ding 2000 posts, Off to work!

[Sidanoir]

So people without NIN at 75 don't know how to blink tank? News to me.

Some people with NIN at 75 suck at blink tanking, or is that news to you to?

It's a poor defense as to why your PLDs can't apparently /NIN on big monsters. My first time ever trying PLD/NIN was on a Tiamat with 0 experience on it beforehand, and at the time my NIN was sitting in the 40 something range.

Edit: Ding 2000 posts, Off to work!

Grats lol

And its not an excuse, I am sure if people were thrown into the fire they could do it---we just haven't taken a chance.

Asherek--you are correct PLD/NIN does outclass PLD/WAR on most mobs now. In any event everything has its pros and cons and I don't want to get into a repetitive argument anymore, don't want to draw this out anymore. Thanks for your input everyone...sorry for any confusion O.o

On a side note, when most people heard BRD/NIN tanking Fafnir they did NOT believe it...why? Cause they did not see it.

I have seen PLD/NINs vs Tiamat (other shells pretty much) and seen it fail hard...so what is the natural thing I would think.

[Asherek]

I have seen PLD/NINs vs Tiamat (other shells pretty much) and seen it fail hard...so what is the natural thing I would think.

The natural thing you should think is: wow, those players seriously suck at playing this game and should /cutwrist.

[Therin]

The loss of Defender and all of that VIT/DEF gear in lieu of enmity gear really DOES make much a larger difference than people seem to think. Sure the diminishing returns of VIT in this game make building for enmity and subbing NIN the most effective way to tank big stuff - but to say that it doesn't affect the damage taken all that much is very ignorant.

When I go from my PLD/WAR setup to my PLD/NIN setup, (with no food) I go from +64 VIT to +23 (+18 if I had Homam gloves, but I still use AF2), and I lose out about a base 60-70 defense. On top of that, with no Defender, you end up taking about another 75% damage per hit over what a fully geared, pimped out PLD/WAR would.

Now I haven't tanked Tiamat with WAR sub recently, so I can't tell you how much he'd hit for, but, with PLD/WAR fully geared, Fafnir hits me for 80-140 damage hit. With PLD/NIN geared for haste and enmity, it's 150-250.

But I'm not saying PLD/WAR is better than PLD/NIN - even though, per hit, you take as much as twice the damage of a PLD/WAR, over the course of fight you get hit about ten times less, so as long as you don't get unlucky with Double-Attack-Mighty-Strikes-In-Between-Ichi-Casts, you should be fine.

[Garret]

On top of that, with no Defender, you end up taking about another 75% damage per hit over what a fully geared, pimped out PLD/WAR would.

you take as much as twice the damage of a PLD/WAR

Huh? I call shenanigans.

+64 Vit is absolute overkill, massive diminishing returns end up coming at around 100-110, Base +64 is going to be well beyond that, and completely unneccesary.

As I recall from your posts before you pull numbers out of nowhere, Asherek probably remembers the specific post better, and it's absolutely worthless to bother telling you how wrong your 'data' is.

Your claim I quoted above is what's ignorant.

[Therin]

Now I haven't tanked Tiamat with WAR sub recently, so I can't tell you how much he'd hit for, but, with PLD/WAR fully geared, Fafnir hits me for 80-140 damage hit. With PLD/NIN geared for haste and enmity, it's 150-250.

How is that pulling numbers out of nowhere? >_>

Go try it yourself, you'll see the same results.

[Garret]

I am far too lazy to go digging through posts to find the one I was referring to, but as memory serves me those aren't even the same numbers you had mentioned previously, that is why they are being pulled out of nowhere.

[Therin]

I am far too lazy to go digging through posts to find the one I was referring to, but as memory serves me those aren't even the same numbers you had mentioned previously, that is why they are being pulled out of nowhere.

I haven't posted here on this subject before, so I'm assuming you mean something I posted on KI, but it very well could have been quite a while ago, I don't remember either.

[Garret]

It wasn't posted here, obviously, but I'm not sure where it was posted, part of why I do not wish to go digging for it.

[Furionstormrage]

PLD/NIN actually has a higher base VIT than PLD/WAR, and you can always macro in more Defensive gear when shadows go down.

I just macro in Shield Skill gear until I can recast, then my normal PLD/NIN gear goes back in.

[RKenshin]

Macro? What's that?

[Akroma_Seraph]

Macro? What's that?

I dunno, I was allways under the impression everyone had to do everything in one static gear set, {Hmmm.}

[GSDragoon]

Macro? What's that?

I blame people that think like this: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14669

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

The loss of Defender and all of that VIT/DEF gear in lieu of enmity gear really DOES make much a larger difference than people seem to think. Sure the diminishing returns of VIT in this game make building for enmity and subbing NIN the most effective way to tank big stuff - but to say that it doesn't affect the damage taken all that much is very ignorant.

When I go from my PLD/WAR setup to my PLD/NIN setup, (with no food) I go from +64 VIT to +23 (+18 if I had Homam gloves, but I still use AF2), and I lose out about a base 60-70 defense. On top of that, with no Defender, you end up taking about another 75% damage per hit over what a fully geared, pimped out PLD/WAR would.

Now I haven't tanked Tiamat with WAR sub recently, so I can't tell you how much he'd hit for, but, with PLD/WAR fully geared, Fafnir hits me for 80-140 damage hit. With PLD/NIN geared for haste and enmity, it's 150-250.

But I'm not saying PLD/WAR is better than PLD/NIN - even though, per hit, you take as much as twice the damage of a PLD/WAR, over the course of fight you get hit about ten times less, so as long as you don't get unlucky with Double-Attack-Mighty-Strikes-In-Between-Ichi-Casts, you should be fine.

Does fafnir spawn level 60 on your server? Or is that with -50% damage reduction? Wearing three pieces of koenig and D.ring I might see 140 once a fight.

[Akroma_Seraph]

The loss of Defender and all of that VIT/DEF gear in lieu of enmity gear really DOES make much a larger difference than people seem to think. Sure the diminishing returns of VIT in this game make building for enmity and subbing NIN the most effective way to tank big stuff - but to say that it doesn't affect the damage taken all that much is very ignorant.

When I go from my PLD/WAR setup to my PLD/NIN setup, (with no food) I go from +64 VIT to +23 (+18 if I had Homam gloves, but I still use AF2), and I lose out about a base 60-70 defense. On top of that, with no Defender, you end up taking about another 75% damage per hit over what a fully geared, pimped out PLD/WAR would.

Now I haven't tanked Tiamat with WAR sub recently, so I can't tell you how much he'd hit for, but, with PLD/WAR fully geared, Fafnir hits me for 80-140 damage hit. With PLD/NIN geared for haste and enmity, it's 150-250.

But I'm not saying PLD/WAR is better than PLD/NIN - even though, per hit, you take as much as twice the damage of a PLD/WAR, over the course of fight you get hit about ten times less, so as long as you don't get unlucky with Double-Attack-Mighty-Strikes-In-Between-Ichi-Casts, you should be fine.

Does fafnir spawn level 60 on your server? Or is that with -50% damage reduction? Wearing three pieces of koenig and D.ring I might see 140 once a fight.

Are you not eating food or somthing? as PLD/WAR 140 should be your high end hits not shield blocked.. not low end... you must be doing something wrong swamp, because Therin's 80-140 sounds correct at least in my experience.

[Allundaria]

Macro? What's that?

I blame people that think like this: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14669

Aren't you the warrior that lotted the Hydra Haubert?

[Rocl]

Macro? What's that?

I blame people that think like this: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14669

Aren't you the warrior that lotted the Hydra Haubert?

You are correct sir!

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

The loss of Defender and all of that VIT/DEF gear in lieu of enmity gear really DOES make much a larger difference than people seem to think. Sure the diminishing returns of VIT in this game make building for enmity and subbing NIN the most effective way to tank big stuff - but to say that it doesn't affect the damage taken all that much is very ignorant.

When I go from my PLD/WAR setup to my PLD/NIN setup, (with no food) I go from +64 VIT to +23 (+18 if I had Homam gloves, but I still use AF2), and I lose out about a base 60-70 defense. On top of that, with no Defender, you end up taking about another 75% damage per hit over what a fully geared, pimped out PLD/WAR would.

Now I haven't tanked Tiamat with WAR sub recently, so I can't tell you how much he'd hit for, but, with PLD/WAR fully geared, Fafnir hits me for 80-140 damage hit. With PLD/NIN geared for haste and enmity, it's 150-250.

But I'm not saying PLD/WAR is better than PLD/NIN - even though, per hit, you take as much as twice the damage of a PLD/WAR, over the course of fight you get hit about ten times less, so as long as you don't get unlucky with Double-Attack-Mighty-Strikes-In-Between-Ichi-Casts, you should be fine.

Does fafnir spawn level 60 on your server? Or is that with -50% damage reduction? Wearing three pieces of koenig and D.ring I might see 140 once a fight.

Are you not eating food or somthing? as PLD/WAR 140 should be your high end hits not shield blocked.. not low end... you must be doing something wrong swamp, because Therin's 80-140 sounds correct at least in my experience.

Usually I do, tacos. Sometimes I just plain forget. 80 would be a high end shield block for me. 140 would be an extremely rare low end hit.

[Xavier]

The only conclusion I can draw from this thread is that theres a lot of shitty paladins in this game.

You're talking out of your ass because you've admitted to having never seen pld/nin done properly but still claim that pld/war holds more hate. You have absolutely no basis for your claim and yet act like its 100% validated.

I've done the PLD/WAR AA rotation properly and I've done the PLD/NIN strategy properly and I'm telling you that PLD/NIN is amazing on nearly all HNM.

You've done PLD/WAR AA rotation properly and you haven't done PLD/NIN properly and you're saying PLD/WAR is the choice for HNM. If you can't see why you're talking out of your ass compared to me then just quit life.

[aers]

Personally I like seeing:

1 of the <PLD/NIN with average gear>'s shadows absorbs the damage and dissapears.

then

Tiamat scores a critical hit!
<PLD with Aegis, d. ring, koenig, etc.> takes 708 points of damage.

(true story btw, said pld got floored a few rounds later to a double attack with no shield blocks, way to wear minimal shield gear)

Unfortunately, on my server people don't believe in PLD/NIN on Tiamat.