PLD Update Effects

[Raineer]

tekki's SS

lol.... greatest thing i've ever seen, nice job square :D

[sephir]

lol holy crap Tekki.

[Stelaereous]

I didn't read all of the posts, so sorry if this was already covered.


I get hit for 0 with Valor Leggings and Sentinel active, and then it seems to go up after the effect wears, sort of like a temporary Stoneskin for the first half of Sentinel or something. Haven't tested much though.

[Senoska]

"Your not a real PLD til you tanked your entire LS" rofl

[Demosthenes11]

I didn't read all of the posts, so sorry if this was already covered.


I get hit for 0 with Valor Leggings and Sentinel active, and then it seems to go up after the effect wears, sort of like a temporary Stoneskin for the first half of Sentinel or something. Haven't tested much though.

oh shit guys, I think he is on to something

[Elesirdur]

At another, more strategic, level these Paladin updates herald the return of the full-out blood tank. I've always, always, preferred to fight PLD/WAR with sword and shield (just like Altana intended). Rock solid hate management and now even more tools to help mitigate large amounts of damage mean that we won't be subjected to fighting three shadows at a time. My LS has done three Proto-Ultima runs and I've successfully main tanked them all PLD/WAR; I can't wait to see how the next one goes with these new updates. Sure, it can suck the MP and one-shotting is still a problem in places but now we no longer feel we need to be crippled by using a /NIN for so many fights. If the NM hits just too damn hard then let a real full Ninja tank it and let them do a damn good job at it.

Granted, I'm such a sucker for tanking /WAR because of my shield skills, gear, and that I freaking suck at tanking /NIN - I just never feel confident in Enmity control (especially without anyone to TA) or in my ability to constantly mitigate damage since I'm sacrificing Defense and VIT for Haste and Enmity+ usually.

[Isildur]

Granted, I'm such a sucker for tanking /WAR because of my shield skills, gear, and that I freaking suck at tanking /NIN - I just never feel confident in Enmity control (especially without anyone to TA) or in my ability to constantly mitigate damage since I'm sacrificing Defense and VIT for Haste and Enmity+ usually.

/NIN takes practice and more Enmity, get the hang of it and you can tank Tiamat from 100~0 without dying, granted you get lucky with Mighty Strikes / DA but all tanking with Tiamat takes a degree of luck. +35~+40 Enmity is a decent amount for /NIN on longer fights (20-30min or longer) where melees/BLMs dont blow away their HP bar in about a minute. I have never ever found /NIN a viable SJ in Dynamis due to the amount of damage that gets unloaded every single mob, just holding hate for a minute or two with /WAR has been enough for me, but my /NIN gear is pretty retarded.

Sentinel has given PLD/NIN a huge clutch maneuver with the damage mitigation, meriting it to -50s would probably save you a shitload of times when some NM decides to be a bitch with AoEs. I believe its possible to tank most everything on PLD/WAR and get away with it, but some fights just feel easier with PLD/NIN. I have gone /WAR to Proto-Omega 2x, first time was a win and it was a long long time ago, i had better gear the 2nd run but the 2nd run Omega was just being a total whore with DA + Crits, my shield build was 284+29 and i was still taking about 50-60 from shield blocks, the block rate didnt even seem like 50% and i had much higher than 290ish. The first attempt i did with PLD/NIN was far better than both attempts i did with PLD/WAR, i was sharing hate between 2 NINs the first 40%, then for about 30% i held hate off both of them and only got whacked 2-3 times.

These abilities give PLD/WAR a pretty good footing on being up there w/ PLD/NIN, i think /WAR is much much better for Dynamis....tanking MNKs became a total bore with the Sentinel buff. Ethereal Earring is only awesome if you take damage, when you're subbing NIN, you're pretty much trying to avoid damage...but the 60-90 hits on PLD/WAR tanking alot of shit (disregarding higher damage NMs) makes you able to Cure IV spam more often.

I guess this could be considered a derail, im too tired to know where the fuck this topic is going right now.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

At another, more strategic, level these Paladin updates herald the return of the full-out blood tank. I've always, always, preferred to fight PLD/WAR with sword and shield (just like Altana intended). Rock solid hate management and now even more tools to help mitigate large amounts of damage mean that we won't be subjected to fighting three shadows at a time. My LS has done three Proto-Ultima runs and I've successfully main tanked them all PLD/WAR; I can't wait to see how the next one goes with these new updates. Sure, it can suck the MP and one-shotting is still a problem in places but now we no longer feel we need to be crippled by using a /NIN for so many fights. If the NM hits just too damn hard then let a real full Ninja tank it and let them do a damn good job at it.

Granted, I'm such a sucker for tanking /WAR because of my shield skills, gear, and that I freaking suck at tanking /NIN - I just never feel confident in Enmity control (especially without anyone to TA) or in my ability to constantly mitigate damage since I'm sacrificing Defense and VIT for Haste and Enmity+ usually.

Provoke isn't the magical tool that it was once thought to be. PLD has enough abilities on its own to be able to sub whatever increases survivability the most..

GUESS WHAT SUB THAT IS LAWLS

[Xavier]

Granted, I'm such a sucker for tanking /WAR because of my shield skills, gear, and that I freaking suck at tanking /NIN - I just never feel confident in Enmity control (especially without anyone to TA) or in my ability to constantly mitigate damage since I'm sacrificing Defense and VIT for Haste and Enmity+ usually.

First bold makes me lose interest in your opinion.

Second bold makes me think you don't know what utsusemi does.

[Palin]

From my personal experiences as a BLM, PLD/NIN will keep hate better over a long period of time than PLD/WAR granted they can blink decently. Being smacked on /WAR, even with damage mitigation, loses a lot of enmity, but PLD/WAR can snap it back fast. The only problem is they don't constantly build that hate higher and higher as much as /NIN does, because they keep losing so much of it from being hit. When I got to Aspid or Faf on BLM, I prefer our PLDs to go /NIN so I don't get chomped earlier.

[Elesirdur]

From my personal experiences as a BLM, PLD/NIN will keep hate better over a long period of time than PLD/WAR granted they can blink decently. Being smacked on /WAR, even with damage mitigation, loses a lot of enmity, but PLD/WAR can snap it back fast. The only problem is they don't constantly build that hate higher and higher as much as /NIN does, because they keep losing so much of it from being hit. When I got to Aspid or Faf on BLM, I prefer our PLDs to go /NIN so I don't get chomped earlier.

Fair enough, I did forget to mention the progressive hate potential of /NIN. Truly, I have had situations where I'll be duo-tanking with a PLD/NIN while I'm on PLD/WAR I can certainly keep hate better early on with /WAR, but once we've both been going for a few minutes it's pretty much impossible for me to rip it off the /NIN. Lastly, I'm speaking from my own experience in a low-tier end-game LS where certain pieces of gear that are considered "essential" by many board members are either extravagant or just out of reach for our members (including myself) - not to mention that it's extremely rare that there's anyone with any form of Trick Attack in our alliance. Hate Control {Can I have it?}

[Lordender]

i would slap my pld's in the face if they sub nin for fafnir or let alone nid, it is just so damn weaksauce of an HNM.

[aers]

i would slap my pld's in the face if they sub nin for fafnir or let alone nid, it is just so damn weaksauce of an HNM.

yeah i'd be mad at my plds for holding hate better on nid too. curse them.

[Lordender]

they hold hate just as fine as /war when we do it, get some better pld's. We have the strongest blm's on carbuncle in our LS and rarely pull hate unless one of them gets carried away @ the end of the fight.

[Mashu]

Graphics for those that are visual people and still not understanding the basics of enmity...

http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/5...vstime2pr3.jpg

You don't get hit, you don't lose as much hate as you would if you did get hit (technically, I think SE introduced an Utsusemi "nerf" around the same time as the RNG "nerf" that causes you to lose a -slight- bit of enmity when you lose a shadow.)

edit: I should also add the obvious disclaimer, the tanks need to know how to play their job in order for the graph to be somewhat correct...

[Palin]

they hold hate just as fine as /war when we do it, get some better pld's. We have the strongest blm's on carbuncle in our LS and rarely pull hate unless one of them gets carried away @ the end of the fight.

Holding hate just fine and holding hate better, allowing your BLMs to hold back less, are two different things.

[aers]

Graphics for those that are visual people and still not understanding the basics of enmity...

[awesome graph here]

You don't get hit, you don't lose as much hate as you would if you did get hit (technically, I think SE introduced an Utsusemi "nerf" around the same time as the RNG "nerf" that causes you to lose a -slight- bit of enmity when you lose a shadow.)

edit: I should also add the obvious disclaimer, the tanks need to know how to play their job in order for the graph to be somewhat correct...

unfortunately the only NINs with brd sub in my ls when I still played were mainjob bards who didn't want to tank on nin (me lol). allways wanted to try nin/brd though :[ we just stuck with pld/nin.

[Toth]

NIN/BRD generates the most hate from Raptor Mazurka spam, right? Any other songs that produce substantial hate?

[Rocl]

NIN/BRD generates the most hate from Raptor Mazurka spam, right? Any other songs that produce substantial hate?

Probably Chocobo Mazurka too

[Ramuss]

Thats like lvl70+ isnt it <_<?