PLD Update Effects

[Mcdohlz]

PLD/NIN holds hate better than PLD/WAR, takes less damage, and drains less MP(Less curing and no wasted mp on lolAA;; ) Paladins that don't wanna sub nin either suck or are too cheap to pay for tools

That graph was pretty accurate btw. pld/war won't get hate off a good pld/nin in aery unless the /nin gets terrored.

[Xavier]

getting hit hate loss > shadow taken hate loss couple that with a low flash timer cures and job abilitys and /NIN reaches a higher hate level than /WAR is able to reach.

Even with /nin a pld is going to still get hit, probably slightly less than one being spammed with Aerial Wind. With /war you have not just voke, but warcry, berserk (which would be cancelled immediately), and defender.

Aerial Armor requires multiple people to keep the tank alive.

/NIN means the tank is responsible for keeping himself alive, letting the other jobs focus on what they're actually supposed to be doing instead of babysitting.

More than that your warcry, provoke and beserk don't mean shit because all they're doing is trying to cancel out the dmg you're taking from normal hits, since AA is not going to be anywhere close as reliable as utsusemi to blink tank.

^

I think your PLD/NIN just suck at playing their class.

I think we just don't use PLD/NIN for Tiamat....we have something that works and we aren't going to change it.

I have seen other PLD/NIN in action with SAM/THF...and Tiamat turns pretty easy...as far as are they skilled at it, I don't really remember...

Explain to me how PLD/NIN generates more hate than PLD/WAR who is being aerial armored?. I know aerial armor is not 100% proc, but it procs enough..and Tiamat doesn't aoe too much on ground

A capable pld/nin will almost never get hit by melee attacks.

A capable pld/war is completely at the mercy of his AA rotation, which Tiamat doesn't exactly care about. Tiamat does an AOE move, the PLD/NIN goes and puts his own shadows back up. The PLD/WAR is fucked until the /SMN puts the AA back up.

If you think that pld/war w/ AA takes less damage than pld/nin, you're dillusional.

It sounds to me from "we have something that works and we aren't going to change it" that you don't even care if theres a better strategy, which means your argument loses a ton of crediblity.

"We can win so our strategy is the best"

[Serif]

PLD/NIN should easily be able to keep more hate seeing how I think you said you had a Hax Horn. PLD/WAR is just giving the stupid mob more TP.

I tank Timmy everytime I am on and we don't need another SAM or something. Not once has it ever turned or Spiked Flail when I am tanking on PLD/NIN.

There is a thing called /shutdown, it is your friend.

[Xavier]

If you intentionally try to cause a wyrm to flail by not being intelligent with your damage, you deserve what you get.

Last I checked mediate wasn't an instant recast ability, giving the SAMs plenty of time to logout every 5 or so WS for 2 minutes to reset hate. Its novel. Agreed Serif.

[Delekii]

Aerial Armour costs each mage more than 125MP every time it is cast, you may aswell just cureV spam the tanks..

PLD/NIN does a BETTER job of not getting hit, holds better hate because they dont get mighty strikes hit for 500damage when aa doesnt work, and cost much less MP. Like the graph showed, it takes a little longer to reach peak hate levels, but once you are there PLD/NIN > PLD/WAR.

As for SA turning a Wyrm, if you turn it with PLD/NIN tanks, you would have turned it with PLD/WAR tanks too. Dont be stupid about doing damage is the lesson that should teach you, not sub war on your tanks..

[pingpong]

berserk doesnt give you hate

defender only good for def boost also does not give hate

Both do give hate, I use them all the time and they are quite noticeable in fact as in turn the mob towards you.

[Vekta]

if were gonna play the zerk/defender card for /war ill go with each cast of utsusemi creates hate and youll be using that much more than defender/zerk

[Serif]

if were gonna play the zerk/defender card for /war ill go with each cast of utsusemi creates hate and youll be using that much more than defender/zerk

NIN NERF DUHRRR

Wasn't that what it did? Less hate on Utsu casts?

[Vekta]

each shadow taken loses a tiny amount of hate casting still creates hate.
which is going to add up to more than getting your ass beat while using zerk/defender.

[Heian]

I can't believe people are actually trying argue the superiority of PLD/WAR over PLD/NIN. PLD/NIN is retartedly broken.

Learn it. Live it. Love it. PLD/NIN

EDIT: I jumped on the rl pic bandwagon. sry gyz ^____^

[Zalius]

I can't believe people are actually trying argue the superiority of PLD/WAR over PLD/NIN. PLD/NIN is retartedly broken.

Learn it. Live it. Love it. PLD/NIN

EDIT: I jumped on the rl pic bandwagon. sry gyz ^____^

needs to be you up close and smoking fgt

[Takedown3]

berserk doesnt give you hate

defender only good for def boost also does not give hate

Wrong..they both generate very small amounts of hate...i used to use berserk in air on Tiamat for shits and giggles on nin/war...sometimes it would turn her to me...

All actions you do once you are on a mobs hate list have some amount of enmity associated with them, no matter how small it is.

Right. You'll find this out on pet jobs alot. Even eating food generates a very tiny amount of hate.

if you are depending on the 0.00001% hate that defender and zerk add (i still dont think they give hate) then change your sub to /nin and learn to count to 3 cuz you will get alot more hate from casting utsusemi every 30 secs then defender/zerk every 3mins

[Swatt]

don't know about defender, but berserk does generate hate. holy circle... i just use it when i'm bored.

then again i don't get to use /war anymore, so defender and berserk out the window

[Martinius]

slight derail, but just because i know something for once posted in this thread as a samurai.

fully meritted, meditate is 2:30. meditate -> SA gekko(or what have you), meditate > SA gekko > logout

by the time you get back in, your meditate timer is up again. don't ws for the first 5-8% of the fight, and TA only after 20%. if you pull hate, your tanks fucking suck.

[Swatt]

slight derail, but just because i know something for once posted in this thread as a samurai.

fully meritted, meditate is 2:30. meditate -> SA gekko(or what have you), meditate > SA gekko > logout

by the time you get back in, your meditate timer is up again. don't ws for the first 5-8% of the fight, and TA only after 20%. if you pull hate, your tanks fucking suck.

er. what's wrong with TAing before 20%?

[Martinius]

nothing's wrong with it, and it's certainly more viable with overwhelm now. i just havent fought a wyrm since they made samurais even more full of win, so i wasn't going to speak to that point. that said, i think we all know TA after 20% to help with terror.

and yes, i spose you could split up SA and TA and cycle like that. SA ws, meditate, TA ws, wait 2:30, rinse, repeat, logout.

[Ryko]

I tend to get 3 WS off per landing, tends to go TA -> SA -> TA though, I go a bit more heavy with SA if our DRG is around though.

[Correction]

if you are depending on the 0.00001% hate that defender and zerk add (i still dont think they give hate)

not arguing pld/war is better on wyrms, but ANY positive status buff you apply to yourself/your party generates hate. Even casting shadows generates hate. It's not a lot and it fades fast but the idea that zerk/defender add no hate is laughable. Anybody who has used either ability a lot has sensed this.

[Swatt]

if you are depending on the 0.00001% hate that defender and zerk add (i still dont think they give hate)

not arguing pld/war is better on wyrms, but ANY positive status buff you apply to yourself/your party generates hate. Even casting shadows generates hate. It's not a lot and it fades fast but the idea that zerk/defender add no hate is laughable. Anybody who has used either ability a lot has sensed this.

thing is though, i've had the mob turn from zerk, warcry and shadows...

never had it from defender and holy circle

[Xavier]

If holy circle generates any hate its so minimal its not worth the effort of pressing the macro to use it. The loss of hate you'll suffer from exerting physical energy irl outweighs the benefit.