PUP Improvements - Dec. Update 2006

[Rocl]

My weapon skill damage was included to give an idea of master and maton combined total damage. The lolPUP comment was directed toward the whole concept of lolPUP slowly beginning to weaken.

Edit: FFS I said I was going to parse more merit parties with jobs that do not have 50% damage bonuses. I am planning different setups and dfferent areas to give a more complete picture. If you honestly believe one merit party parse proves anything, then you know jack about research >.>

Edit 2:

You added "LoLness wearing" to the title. Wanna know something? The LOL hasnt worn

Do you read what you write? Wearing =/= worn

To #1: You acted like it was conclusive enough, so I did.
To #2: Not usually, I just type. You're acting like Puppetmaster is better than another job, which sadly it doesn't seem that way. Hence, still being a bottom rung DD, it's LOL hasn't worn much, if at all.

We can all agree, that should you leave the merit party[for whatever reason], and they got any other melee job equipped with the same 'tier' of gear as you, and the player having the same amount of 'skill' as you, they'd get more than 12k/hr right?

[miokomioko]

Considering this is a thread focused on NEW additions to the job, in addition to the fact that no one was trying to argue what everyone decided to counter-argue... you are very wrong about that.

Thread Title: PUP Updates - LoLness Wearing?

[quote:e36ab]I didn't even post the DoT of Master + Maton because I had thought it was not neccessary. Yes, a THF can do a 2k WS as well as a RNG. HOWEVER, I will bet good money that the master and maton will do more than enough DoT between WSes (think 60-70 a swing from the master and 60 from the maton) to be more than even. What PUPhaters need to understand is that properly geared, a PUP will overcome these annoying preconcieved notions (low Hand to Hand, PUP sucks) and will do perfectly fine in merit. We only got chain 36 because we ran out of mobs. A previous merit party I was in reached 149. Do not be afraid to invite a PUP

That's the part that people are referring to.

My favorite part was "{Puppetmaster}-Brand {Dragon Kick} on <t>!" to be honest. [/quote:e36ab]

I guess "perfectly fine" means "better than everyone else" to most people these days.

I am going to make the assumption that PUPs on these boards generally don't have dillusions of grandeur and actually think they are more worthy of a spot in a party than the 75 WAR/MNK/NIN that every single person has leveled by now. Arguing to stick a PUP in a merit party instead of a non-retarded WAR/MNK/NIN is just stupid, but it's far from what was actually being said here.

However, can this stop now? I'd like new posts on this thread to actually have information worth reading besides repeating the repetative bullcrap that has plagued it for the last 4+ pages.

[Toth]

You're acting like Puppetmaster is better than another job, which sadly it doesn't seem that way. Hence, still being a bottom rung DD, it's LOL hasn't worn much, if at all.

Wow...just wow. Yeah, the entire point of this thread is to proclaim that PUP is better than other jobs Selective reading for the win. Maybe, just maybe, this thread is about a PUP showcasing ways in which his job has improved to be a better DD than it was before? Hence, the wearing in the title...

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

You're acting like Puppetmaster is better than another job, which sadly it doesn't seem that way. Hence, still being a bottom rung DD, it's LOL hasn't worn much, if at all.

Wow...just wow. Yeah, the entire point of this thread is to proclaim that PUP is better than other jobs Selective reading for the win. Maybe, just maybe, this thread is about a PUP showcasing ways in which his job has improved to be a better DD than it was before? Hence, the wearing in the title...

To be usable you must be a better DD than a DRG. If you want people who think otherwise I can suggest 2 other forums full of likeminded people.

[Lordwafik]

ALLAKHAZAM! Those nice "Hay guyz pup can tank" topics would be more beneficial.

[Toth]

You're acting like Puppetmaster is better than another job, which sadly it doesn't seem that way. Hence, still being a bottom rung DD, it's LOL hasn't worn much, if at all.

Wow...just wow. Yeah, the entire point of this thread is to proclaim that PUP is better than other jobs Selective reading for the win. Maybe, just maybe, this thread is about a PUP showcasing ways in which his job has improved to be a better DD than it was before? Hence, the wearing in the title...

To be usable you must be a better DD than a DRG. If you want people who think otherwise I can suggest 2 other forums full of likeminded people.

I repeat: Maybe, just maybe, this thread is about a PUP showcasing ways in which his job HAS IMPROVED TO BE A BETTER DD than it was BEFORE? Hence, the wearing in the title...

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

You're acting like Puppetmaster is better than another job, which sadly it doesn't seem that way. Hence, still being a bottom rung DD, it's LOL hasn't worn much, if at all.

Wow...just wow. Yeah, the entire point of this thread is to proclaim that PUP is better than other jobs Selective reading for the win. Maybe, just maybe, this thread is about a PUP showcasing ways in which his job has improved to be a better DD than it was before? Hence, the wearing in the title...

To be usable you must be a better DD than a DRG. If you want people who think otherwise I can suggest 2 other forums full of likeminded people.

I repeat: Maybe, just maybe, this thread is about a PUP showcasing ways in which his job HAS IMPROVED TO BE A BETTER DD than it was BEFORE? Hence, the wearing in the title...

And DRK was buffed by the ABS cast time reduced by half. Not threadworthy in the least. In any case heres a chart to explain this better.
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1...abilityjg2.jpg

LOLPUP

Please note, do not argue the details of the chart, it is a joke with PUP as the punchline

[Toth]

I have a better line:

Pompous Ass
I
----Maxxthepenguin
I
I
I
I
I
I
Reasonable and Intelligent Poster

[StaplerGuy]

I was all poised to argue about that SAM line, too

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I have a better line:

Pompous Ass
I
----Maxthepenguin
I
I
I
I
I
I
Reasonable and Intelligent Poster

Theres 2 x's in Maxxthepenguin btw

[jiang]

could you do one of those graphs, but like, more accurate? it would be interesting to see. also i dont understand what the length of the line means.

[Toth]

Fixed. Lovely to come out with that smart, educated chart after I reported one whooping party.

[nivlakian]

imo to truly intend to make a valid PUP thread it'd:
1) have been named w/o LOLness and just be "PUP improvements" or something
2) Have a comparison of automaton parses of before and after
3) Avoid job comparison when possible due to current job perception

Of course, even doing that may not have prevented derail, but it's a start.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

could you do one of those graphs, but like, more accurate? it would be interesting to see. also i dont understand what the length of the line means.

The range between the best geared and worst geared chars using a specific job.

And as far as how to make it more accurate... that would go in the sticky thread

[Toth]

1) have been named w/o LOLness and just be "PUP improvements" or something
2) Have a comparison of automaton parses of before and after
3) Avoid job comparison when possible due to current job perception

well,

1) I will change it to LOLness wearing?
2) I have some old parses pre update that I will dig out to offer a comparison
3) Most of the detractors are bringing up biased job comparisons here

edit: new title to satisfy and get the thread back on track : PUP Improvements - Dec. Update 2006

[yrpaine]

someone that knows how to play the game well can always do decent dmg in a merrit party compared to people that don't have the funds/merrits/skills to overpower them completely.

If you put the same effort into a better job, you wouldn't be complaining, because you'd actually be useful endgame.

good players can always find gimps their lvl on better jobs and outdmg them, that won't make them more useful endgame.

being able to outdmg an eva-nin in a merrit pty or unmerrited melee isn't a huge accomplishment when you have millions more in gear/better rare/ex, and many more merrits and experience playing the game.

[Khamsin]

Personally, I'm leveling PUP not to be useful endgame or in merit PTs, but because its fun. Except for the no-invite thing.

I got WAR, RDM, and SMN.. I'm not bringing PUP anywhere near endgame. But it really is an enjoyable job to level, stigmas aside.

I'm also used to it from WAR, and SMN to an extent. WAR was my first job, and nobody liked WAR. People thought WAR was crap and I'd never get to do anything endgame with it either. So since that time, I've been turned off to WAR even after it became an zomgbandwagon job. It's still fully geared, and I drag it out for merit PTs once in a while. I may play it seriously again later, but it's been on the back burner for a good long while because of discriminatory crap like that.

SMN wasn't seen as useful in endgame either. However, I had mellowed out some since my emo WAR days of no one needing WARs (or SMNs) so it didn't phase me much, but I levelled it for fun rather than predicting any real use in the endgame. Luckily for me, both WAR and SMN did end up being desirable later on, which is better than if I had been, say, a RNG and got hit by the nerf bat.

PUP, on the other hand, isn't my only job like WAR was and I can be useful on other jobs that I already have, so I have no need to be emo or get discouraged like I did with WAR. So all is good in my book, and I can just level it for fun like I did with SMN.

[yrpaine]

there's no problem playing jobs to be fun, trying to turn fun jobs into endgame jobs, that blatently aren't endgame jobs (compared to others you have at 75), is different

[Koyangi]

People must have forgotten to have fun in this GAME lol. I'm sure Toth's BLM and SMN are very well off in any HNM situation, so what's to laugh because he's having fun with a "gimp" melee job that he's actually doing very well to pimp out, do research with, and most of all have fun doing it.

[jiang]

Khamsin> you realize the model in your sig is horribly outdated right??