Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[mdkuser]

Asking that cause we have developed a good strategy in the zone atm leaving us a solid 25 minute after killing 3FN 5FN 6FN frog, and thats whith charm happy frogs. If we can add 1F to the list, that would be great, especially since we can have 4 monks.

Mind giving some specifics? Because our Zhayolm runs (which I haven't actually been on lately) tend to only have 10 minutes left after 6F madame, and it would be nice to get some Zhayolm boss parts. I guess I'm curious about your party setup, time used per floor, and what you're clearing/how you're fighting the frogs.

Experience I guess, we've been spamming this zone. Im sure some groups out there are killing faster than us. The secret, and this works for all salvage zones, is to pull fast. We have rdm and bard pull like mad ( from 1F to 6F). There should never be any instance where you wait more than 5 sec for a mob. Never down time, and then you will have lots of time at the end. Still, 25 minutes is not enough for us to clear 6F and do boss. The fastest we did was 40ish min left entering 6F, but the frog decided to suck and we didn't have time for boss.

We usually are 6-8, mnk mnk drk whm rdm brd+ thf and extra DD or BLM.
1F we clear central rooms 10 min
2F we dup either SJ or magic, unless we're short on rings/ranged. when NE is clear main team farm SE SW while mnk+rdm go NW kill 2-3 wyverns+jakko. 25-30min
3F kill 3 rooms South to unlock 3 , then clear North; 50min.
4F 1 stay at warp, dds go kill rampart fast and save TP on it.
5F thf sac pulls, dies top stair. main group go in NM room and unlauch TP; rdm W.leg trains every gear , reraise and tele. 65min.
6F kill frog 75 min.

[Suiram]

since it's not easy (although not impossible) to get to 4N in under 30 min with 2F dead and Jakko popped and 3 people fully unlocked (or at least unlocked for gear and MP).

I dunno, it seems pretty impossible to me; clearing 2F NE takes more time than you'd expect. The problem comes in the size of your party; if you bring enough to kill 2F NE fast enough, you spend more crucial time on 1F preparing for that.

I was thinking, however, that one way to do it would be to have your party setup be 3 able and strong pairs of DD/support that can each duo 2 wyverns / lizards in under 5 min from clearing 2F NE, which would need to be cleared in about 8 minutes including 2F Madame, to lock your time on 2F to 13 minutes. This would give you ~8-10 minutes on 1F and long enough on 3F to get 3 MP (in my experience, that's about 8-10 dropping Mamool Ja, hence the need for what seems like so much time on 3F (~7-9min depending on 1F)). For 3F, the best thing could do is skip the first room, since one of them doesn't drop anything and they usually have Utsusemi up. The extra walk to the DRGs would be worth it if you can sleep 8 pets for 7-9min, while killing only the Mamool Ja.

I still want to try to break this seemingly impossible barrier, but it's definitely not easy.

I know it's not impossible because that popular JP blog (either Chokorun, or the other one with a lot of Madame stuff around the time people were still working these out) did just this shortly after the 6th floor conditions were discovered. The closest we ever came when we tried a few times was I think 3-5min over the limit (so didn't port obviously). I don't know that splitting up would be required, and the fact that you don't have to kill Jakko helps in the every-bit-helps kind of way. I think the main additional time-savers would range from huge ones like getting an MP from the starting chest, medium ones like getting a head or leg/feet from starting chest, to smaller ones like lucking out on cell droppers from 1st floor center rooms and 2nd floor SE/SW/NW (assuming you wouldn't dat mod the names, which would ruin the whole challenge aspect of this).

[Wizerd]

since it's not easy (although not impossible) to get to 4N in under 30 min with 2F dead and Jakko popped and 3 people fully unlocked (or at least unlocked for gear and MP).

I dunno, it seems pretty impossible to me; clearing 2F NE takes more time than you'd expect. The problem comes in the size of your party; if you bring enough to kill 2F NE fast enough, you spend more crucial time on 1F preparing for that.

I was thinking, however, that one way to do it would be to have your party setup be 3 able and strong pairs of DD/support that can each duo 2 wyverns / lizards in under 5 min from clearing 2F NE, which would need to be cleared in about 8 minutes including 2F Madame, to lock your time on 2F to 13 minutes. This would give you ~8-10 minutes on 1F and long enough on 3F to get 3 MP (in my experience, that's about 8-10 dropping Mamool Ja, hence the need for what seems like so much time on 3F (~7-9min depending on 1F)). For 3F, the best thing could do is skip the first room, since one of them doesn't drop anything and they usually have Utsusemi up. The extra walk to the DRGs would be worth it if you can sleep 8 pets for 7-9min, while killing only the Mamool Ja.

I still want to try to break this seemingly impossible barrier, but it's definitely not easy.

I know it's not impossible because that popular JP blog (either Chokorun, or the other one with a lot of Madame stuff around the time people were still working these out) did just this shortly after the 6th floor conditions were discovered. The closest we ever came when we tried a few times was I think 3-5min over the limit (so didn't port obviously). I don't know that splitting up would be required, and the fact that you don't have to kill Jakko helps in the every-bit-helps kind of way. I think the main additional time-savers would range from huge ones like getting an MP from the starting chest, medium ones like getting a head or leg/feet from starting chest, to smaller ones like lucking out on cell droppers from 1st floor center rooms and 2nd floor SE/SW/NW (assuming you wouldn't dat mod the names, which would ruin the whole challenge aspect of this).

Salvage isn't about challenge anymore, it's about efficiency. Being able to do 4FN, 5FN, 6F in the same run would be efficient, moreso than having to do 3FS, and therefore if it meant DAT modding to get this done (where not DAT modding would be too slow), then that'd be worth it.

[Suiram]

I'd agree that Salvage in general isn't about the challenge anymore, but I think the main reason for doing this would be for the (artificially created) challenge, along the same lines as the low-numbers limbus thread. I don't see the efficiency thing since 15s aren't usually in high demand since they're 100% at some cost if you really need them to complete a piece, and for 5th/6th/boss you're going to be unlocking half the group at half of what you otherwise would and still accomplishing the same amount of stuff in 100 minutes as if you took your time on Fls. 1~3. But mostly I reeaaalllllllly didn't mean to get us back into the ".dat modding, good or evil?" debate, so I'll just let you respond and then let's put this back to bed.

[Wizerd]

I'd agree that Salvage in general isn't about the challenge anymore, but I think the main reason for doing this would be for the (artificially created) challenge, along the same lines as the low-numbers limbus thread. I don't see the efficiency thing since 15s aren't usually in high demand since they're 100% at some cost if you really need them to complete a piece, and for 5th/6th/boss you're going to be unlocking half the group at half of what you otherwise would and still accomplishing the same amount of stuff in 100 minutes as if you took your time on Fls. 1~3. But mostly I reeaaalllllllly didn't mean to get us back into the ".dat modding, good or evil?" debate, so I'll just let you respond and then let's put this back to bed.

lol, fair enough. Personally, I'd rather not have to use an entire run going just for the lv15s. It hasn't been a problem so far, since the only people who've gotten Bhaflau 35s so far are those willing/able to do trio/quad runs in order to get their 15s, but god forbid one of the members with less time on their hands gets a bhaflau 35 and we need to dedicate a run to just a small 40 minute endeavor.

We only go twice a week in each of my 2 groups, so I like to use every run I can to do as much as we can. The other advantage is if you're able to pop 4FN and still do 5FN/6F, then you'll definitely have time for the boss; whereas going south on 3F, while easier to do, gives less time and whether we can do the boss or not tends to be based on the number of charms that go through. Anymore than about 5-6 charms and there's no chance, since we don't have Ridills. ;p

So that's why I wanna be able to do that.

I'm not really interested in a .dat modding debate either, everyone has their own thing.

[mackerel]

Personally, I'd rather not have to use an entire run going just for the lv15s. It hasn't been a problem so far, since the only people who've gotten Bhaflau 35s so far are those willing/able to do trio/quad runs in order to get their 15s, but god forbid one of the members with less time on their hands gets a bhaflau 35 and we need to dedicate a run to just a small 40 minute endeavor.

It's possible to do 4N and BC in one run, I've done it with 8. I'd try to be on floor 3 at the 25 minute mark, have somebody standing by at the portal to port at 29:30, and use repeats of floor 4 to finish farming hp/mp/stats once the madame is dead. Discoid will hurt, consider having all but the tanks sub whm.

[Lyramion]

I had this discussion with a LS member last night and I just want to verify it.

6f Froggie can be popped by:
5f Froggie (Gear 3 people)
4f Froggie (reach in 30 minutes)
3f Froggie (clear a path)
2f Froggie (trade a cell)

The arguement was that 2f froggie doesn't count and that you have to use a card to pop worthless imp boy. I was under the impression people popped the imp to avoid 4f Froggie.

Thanks.

I think Chocoruns group did exactly this run BUT they are a highly experienced group geared to their teeth going every day usually since the beginning of time.

For 4th Floor 15s we just use a random day with not many ppl on to do it quick. 4-5 ppl and get ppl to let us in np

[aurik]

I had this discussion with a LS member last night and I just want to verify it.

6f Froggie can be popped by:
5f Froggie (Gear 3 people)
4f Froggie (reach in 30 minutes)
3f Froggie (clear a path)
2f Froggie (trade a cell)

The arguement was that 2f froggie doesn't count and that you have to use a card to pop worthless imp boy. I was under the impression people popped the imp to avoid 4f Froggie.

Thanks.

I think Chocoruns group did exactly this run BUT they are a highly experienced group geared to their teeth going every day usually since the beginning of time.

For 4th Floor 15s we just use a random day with not many ppl on to do it quick. 4-5 ppl and get ppl to let us in np

Chocorun's group did this on the south side, giving them 45 minutes to get the 4th floor.
My group has done 4-5 on the north side and I can tell you, the 4th floor condition is extremely tight.

[Clynt]

Just to further confirm it, you don't need to actually kill Jacko to pop 5F and 6F Madames, just pop it. Tried to do 35s+boss in same run yesterday for the first time and killed boss with about 3 minutes left. Did it with MNK MNK WHM RDM BRD THF BLM. Had quite a few frog chorus' go off too, and still ended up with ~16 min for boss >_>

[Suiram]

Chocorun's group did this on the south side, giving them 45 minutes to get the 4th floor.
My group has done 4-5 on the north side and I can tell you, the 4th floor condition is extremely tight.

I'm certain it was North, whoever it was. I just kinda spammed through that blog just now, and I'm pretty sure this is the entry I was remembering, but obviously someone could translate it and see if that isn't correct. http://blog.so-net.ne.jp/chokorun/2007-09-29

[aurik]

I must have seen an earlier entry.

[Mojo]

Honestly, I think it's impossible to do 4F, 5FN, 6FN and boss in the same run. We can typically finish 5FN, 6FN, and boss with 6 people and easily have over 20 minutes remaining, so our group is definitely a capable one, but I seriously doubt that any group could do all of that.

[Lyramion]

Chocos Blog for the 4N 5N 6 Run says:

1st Floor 8 Min
2nd Floor 22 Min
3rd Floor 28 Min


Just tried to do it and..... failed.... because we did lack VIT.... killed wrong Mamool... our bad

[Mojo]

Well, upon further review, I was neglecting the fact that you wouldn't have to kill 3F madame. I suppose it is possible, extra stat cells can be farmed by repeatedly choosing the wrong rampart on 4F after the madame in case you are in need of something crucial. Maybe we'll try it next time.

[Julian]

Well, upon further review, I was neglecting the fact that you wouldn't have to kill 3F madame. I suppose it is possible, extra stat cells can be farmed by repeatedly choosing the wrong rampart on 4F after the madame in case you are in need of something crucial. Maybe we'll try it next time.

lol yea we did this, kept redoing floor to get 3 vits we needed, epic win 4fn+5+6 in one run

lol

enlil body from super emo 5f frog that charmed us 50x over and took like 30min, pigaches from 6f that took like 5min, completed my usukane shoes and morrigan shoes same run (*'-')b

[Lyramion]

Epic BRD body drop and macha feet, too


5th Floor is a bastard... 3 Enil 3 Skadi and only 1 Gote in 2-3 zhays per week - we need Gote most ; ;

[Not Kuno]

I thought you needed 30min or less on the total run time for 4f North.

[Seditedi]

You do, thats what has been discussed.
Pretty difficult to do.

[Lyramion]

I thought you needed 30min or less on the total run time for 4f North.

I believe our times were...

1st Floor 7m
2nd Floor 22m
3rd Floor 29.45m
4th Floor 1hour - Kill Madame and random redoing for the VIT cells we were missing
5th Floor 1hr 30m > Enil
6th floor > Macha - Madame got owned at the 1hr 35m mark due to our RDM chainspell nuking


I think chocoruns group was even doing boss after but we wasted so much time on our errors. Juliano gonna post up more details tomorrow I think. He completed Morrigans and Usukane Shoes in one run... what a lootwhore!

[Not Kuno]

Those two posts contradict each other then. They got to 4f in a little less then an hour.

Also what do you do on 1f to take only 7 minutes?