Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[Shassira]

Tonight we did tested out 1F madame. We only had 5, and a friend had let us in, and we were MNK BLU THF RDM BRD. Everyone used cells on 1F except the MNK who held his, we cleared raptor wing, and when the Gent was at 5% the RDM slept it and we all logged out except the MNK. Once we had logged out, he finished it off, and Madame popped.

Excelent, so it gets confirmed that the condition is checked at least on death time and death time only. Now someone has to risk it out and check it after the frog is dead ^^ Either way, sleeping it and log off is as safe as it gets, so this is pretty good.

Wouldn't HP/MP cells be a liability? I remember doing a 4FN frog run once where we didn't even get 1 HP cell from the first 3 rooms. Doing 3FS frog pretty much gaurantees you full (or near full) stats unlock on every member. Would the time gained from ~8 (bugards) + 2 frogs in contrast to ~16 mamool+pets + rampart + frog be that significant to merit the possible lack of HP/MP cells?

No, HP or MP shouldn't be an issue with a THF, you'll get enough HP on 3F without even getting close to having to pull a single mob of the big room. If you ask me, this method should work a bit faster than having to clear the whole 3F, which includes a rampart and a likely reinforcement. To kill the madame you'll have to kill the mamool pets anyway, and that's really a big amount of pets. I'm pretty sure you complete the 3xUnlocks before reaching the big room in a normal situation.
Also, in 4FS there's fixed drops on the mamool there (for example, the Zenist drops 3xHP always). I'm not sure if this happens with the 4FN area though, since we've never really had the need to kill these. Maybe someone can throw some light on this one.

For 1F frog, you could take any wing anyway. As far as i understand, many groups get some extra cells from at least one wing (For example, magic), so in the end it's really just killing like 4 more mobs + the gent. It's at least worth some testing... and it will probably vary from group to group, but it's now a good alternative as opossed to the waste of time it was before.

Another possitive aspect of this is that it lets you pop 6F frog without needing a THF and without burning yourself on 1F. Last time we did Zhayolm without a THF (none was present for the run) not a single ranged or earring cell droped. As far as i know, there's no other way to get these but at the lizard room and those crazy little frogs that randomly drop gear (which, without a THF, would probably be frustrating to expect 6 needed drops >.>), so you need one extra NM for 6F.

[Wizerd]

Don't forget the most attractive reason to do 1F: possible lv15 drops that mean you don't need to waste a run some other time for them.

[TB]

Tonight we did tested out 1F madame. We only had 5, and a friend had let us in, and we were MNK BLU THF RDM BRD. Everyone used cells on 1F except the MNK who held his, we cleared raptor wing, and when the Gent was at 5% the RDM slept it and we all logged out except the MNK. Once we had logged out, he finished it off, and Madame popped.

Win!

[pchan]

Used the /logout strategy @ 5% today. Exited late from 1F (24 min i think), 1F madame dropped skadi head. Managed to do do both 35 madames + boss, with 7 minutes left. Engaging 5F @ 55 minutes, 30 minutes left after 6F died.

[Uzor]

And we were slow as well... lots of small mistakes due to trying a new strategy.

[Wizerd]

And we were slow as well... lots of small mistakes due to trying a new strategy.

I assume you guys skipped half of 3FS and the Madame right?

[Uzor]

Yes.

[Shassira]

Would you guys mind describing with a little detail what you do to achieve such times? Also if you have notorious equipment that might be influencing in this and if these times are the norm or the exception. I'm happy with my group's runs except for Zhayolm where we utterly suck at it and can't seem to find a suitable strategy like we've done with other areas. We either end up hard pressed reaching 6F toad or almost time out on boss without even having done NMs (and we've timed out actualy >_>). Wouldn't mind comparing ^^

[Suiram]

Back in zhayolm atm, don't need to sleep and log out before gent dies, can log after it's dead and get pop.

Edit: Enyo'd from bugard wing clear, probably alll random.

[Artus]

killed all NE lizards and..... NO RANGED!!!! was so nice to wave goodbye to 1500 points by the second floor!

[Suiram]

killed all NE lizards and..... NO RANGED!!!! was so nice to wave goodbye to 1500 points by the second floor!

Port up south instead of north in under 45 (or 47 or w/e) minutes, kill madame on 4S for 4th NM. If you're doing seacom lotting have people who picked a 5F drop switch to a 6F or boss drop if they choose, if it's a static or LS run you'll get more 5N pops, and it seems to be a better drop rate anyway. Run doesn't have to be over just because you can't pop 5N unless you're maxed out on 6F/boss.

[tymora]

Very useful info.

Leave the most useless fella locked while you unlock the rest. (THF since TH not needed till Madame).

---------
Have someone /thf if no THF. Drops still decent in NE wing with TH1.

[Wizerd]

Very useful info.

Leave the most useless fella locked while you unlock the rest. (THF since TH not needed till Madame).

---------
Have someone /thf if no THF. Drops still decent in NE wing with TH1.

Our THF does dmg on 1F. I was thinking the BLM we usually bring, who I always send to the porter.

[Suiram]

One thing to check, although I'd imagine people would have noticed this already were it the case, but in these last two runs we've done the pathos person has been running to the Madame area as we log out, so he arrives after we're already gone. It is possible that the condition is "Gent killed, nobody dead, and at least one person full pathos" and it popped without needing people to log out. That might make sense what with the strange cases in the past where it's popped after people used cells.

[mdkuser]

Would you guys mind describing with a little detail what you do to achieve such times? Also if you have notorious equipment that might be influencing in this and if these times are the norm or the exception. I'm happy with my group's runs except for Zhayolm where we utterly suck at it and can't seem to find a suitable strategy like we've done with other areas. We either end up hard pressed reaching 6F toad or almost time out on boss without even having done NMs (and we've timed out actualy >_>). Wouldn't mind comparing ^^

Nothing spectacular. The 3 unlocked DDs were 2 BB monks and my lol monk (af2 leg brownbelt, ha!).

1F: clear 4 inner room, then puk then gent and madamme, 25 minutes, could save at least 5 minutes there, made mistakes ( had to farm extra magic and abi...).
2F: clear 1st room, then the group of 3 mamools on the left in each of the 3 other rooms. Pop Jakko at the last minute (again made mistakes, had a bad link and edath).
3F: clear 3 inner rooms... had to pull more because our thf died, and mobs stoped droping HP and MP...warp@50
4F: rampart >warp
5F: arrived at 55
6F: madamme killed with 30 left
cleared the floor in 12 minutes
boss in 11 minute.

[Shassira]

Back in zhayolm atm, don't need to sleep and log out before gent dies, can log after it's dead and get pop.

Edit: Enyo'd from bugard wing clear, probably alll random.

So it is a constant check! Yay for awesome speculation turning true. This makes it so easy. So uh... what about suiciding to pop 5F? xD
Well, that or the condition isn't "everyone fully locked" but "at least one fully locked", but then again there's no explanation as to why you have to log off or be alive. All points that it's in tone with the idea of constant checks like 5F frog which in this case can be manipulated by removing people from the zone. So basicly the constant check does not stop until everyone is checked to be locked (basicly, the checks don't break when a person unlocked is found).

Way i can imagine this working is possibly due to an "error" in the check code. Let's assume the checks on pathos start after the Gent is dead (since condition #1 is Gent dead). They could be checking repeatedly for every person's pathos and flaging them as "valid" when they are found pathos locked. Now, for the people not locked they aren't flaged as invalid but instead they are constantly checked until found valid. Reason here would be because "the invalid person could be dead, and such triggering as invalid when it could be valid". I know the logical thing would be to check if the person is dead and delay the pathos check till they raise, but who knows how they coded this out. If done that way, without making a difference between dead and alive but unlocked, the checks are done constantly until found valid, which would explain why someone could use cells after the Gent dies but some people are still dead. Either way, pure speculation ofcourse, what's clear is that the check is somewhat constant and the test above is an excelent proof.

Thanks a lot for testing it out! ^^

As for this:

One thing to check, although I'd imagine people would have noticed this already were it the case, but in these last two runs we've done the pathos person has been running to the Madame area as we log out, so he arrives after we're already gone. It is possible that the condition is "Gent killed, nobody dead, and at least one person full pathos" and it popped without needing people to log out. That might make sense what with the strange cases in the past where it's popped after people used cells.

Along your line of though but not exactly the same, maybe there's a proximity check to the pop? As in, needing to be inside the NM's radius for the checks to start? Easy to debunk if someone has used Widescan here and seen the Madame pop before even getting close to the area though.

1F: clear 4 inner room, then puk then gent and madamme, 25 minutes, could save at least 5 minutes there, made mistakes ( had to farm extra magic and abi...).
2F: clear 1st room, then the group of 3 mamools on the left in each of the 3 other rooms. Pop Jakko at the last minute (again made mistakes, had a bad link and edath).
3F: clear 3 inner rooms... had to pull more because our thf died, and mobs stoped droping HP and MP...warp@50
4F: rampart >warp
5F: arrived at 55
6F: madamme killed with 30 left
cleared the floor in 12 minutes
boss in 11 minute.

Thanks~ It's similar to what we do, although i believe we waste a lot of time in 1F farming cells we don't need from other wings. 2F and 3F seem similar, 4F and 5F same.
I think we take longer than 12' to clear 6F though, that charriot is a freaking tank. We are easily stuck on him for 3-4 minutes.
Boss we take a bit more than 11'. Probably 11-12' to actualy kill then an extra minute needed for drops at least.
Thanks for the input, helps to see where we should be pushing it. ^^

[Wizerd]

1F: clear 4 inner room, then puk then gent and madamme, 25 minutes, could save at least 5 minutes there, made mistakes ( had to farm extra magic and abi...).
2F: clear 1st room, then the group of 3 mamools on the left in each of the 3 other rooms. Pop Jakko at the last minute (again made mistakes, had a bad link and edath).
3F: clear 3 inner rooms... had to pull more because our thf died, and mobs stoped droping HP and MP...warp@50
4F: rampart >warp
5F: arrived at 55
6F: madamme killed with 30 left
cleared the floor in 12 minutes
boss in 11 minute.

Thanks~ It's similar to what we do, although i believe we waste a lot of time in 1F farming cells we don't need from other wings. 2F and 3F seem similar, 4F and 5F same.
I think we take longer than 12' to clear 6F though, that charriot is a freaking tank. We are easily stuck on him for 3-4 minutes.
Boss we take a bit more than 11'. Probably 11-12' to actualy kill then an extra minute needed for drops at least.
Thanks for the input, helps to see where we should be pushing it. ^^

With the group I lead, we kill enough on 1F to get all cells for everyone except for weapons, which we leave at 6. Typically, this means 8-10 Abilities, Magic, and Subjob (although magic would be 7-9 usually, since we try to bring COR). We're off 1F in under 20 minutes easily.

On 2F, we clear NE, kill Madame, then kill 3-5 mobs in each room in order to get 6 of that room's equipment, and pop Jakko before porting up.

On 3F, we clear S. (Of course this will change now with 1F)

4F is simple, less than 3 minutes.

We arrive on 5F with about 45 minutes left as well this way, give or take 5 minutes depending on screwups or good luck with lower Madames.

6F we usually try to kill with at least 25 minutes left, and more often than not it's possible. With a COR, we can do 6F+Boss in 20 minutes, without a COR we need the full 25. That usually means about 10-11 minutes on 6F with a COR, 6-7 on Boss, and 12-13 minutes without a COR, 9-10 on Boss.

Normal setup consists of MNK MNK DRK WHM BRD COR, RDM BLM THF. Although we don't use the COR in melee party until about 3F.

[Artus]

killed all NE lizards and..... NO RANGED!!!! was so nice to wave goodbye to 1500 points by the second floor!

Port up south instead of north in under 45 (or 47 or w/e) minutes, kill madame on 4S for 4th NM. If you're doing seacom lotting have people who picked a 5F drop switch to a 6F or boss drop if they choose, if it's a static or LS run you'll get more 5N pops, and it seems to be a better drop rate anyway. Run doesn't have to be over just because you can't pop 5N unless you're maxed out on 6F/boss.

sorry should have added, was groups first run so making it there in 47min was out of the question

[ryanjh]

I've been following the last handful of pages, but have unfortunately been unable to really start consistent salvage runs due to a stint abroad and some laptop issues. A few questions that I havn't been able to get an answer to:

The Madame that has the 47 minute timer vs. the 30 minute timer...does it still have drops? or is mostly a failsafe to pop the 6F madame? In a similar vein to the 3F, south side(I believe it was 3F) where the mamools drop cells. Is this another implementation to allow for a 6F pop, or is there any useful point in killing it? I checked Wiki for a lot of the info, but they would only describe the routes where it would drop gear, and didn't explain the other paths and what purpose they served.

Thanks for any answers, and I apologize if this has been answered/ is redundant.

[Suiram]

I've been following the last handful of pages, but have unfortunately been unable to really start consistent salvage runs due to a stint abroad and some laptop issues. A few questions that I havn't been able to get an answer to:

The Madame that has the 47 minute timer vs. the 30 minute timer...does it still have drops? or is mostly a failsafe to pop the 6F madame? In a similar vein to the 3F, south side(I believe it was 3F) where the mamools drop cells. Is this another implementation to allow for a 6F pop, or is there any useful point in killing it? I checked Wiki for a lot of the info, but they would only describe the routes where it would drop gear, and didn't explain the other paths and what purpose they served.

Thanks for any answers, and I apologize if this has been answered/ is redundant.

4S has no drops but a chest loads when it dies with some meds. Likewise for 5S. 3S drops 5 HP and 5 MP, which you likely won't need after clearing all the mamools needed to pop it anyway. All count towards the 4 NMs needed to spawn 6th floor Madame, so their only real usefulness is as a failsafe as you said, and really only 4th floor is since you need two people fully unlocked for 5S, and there are very rare situations where you would have 2 fully unlocked and not 3 with the ability to duplicate cells. Although 4S gents have a way better drop rate than 4N and drop in blocks of 3, so if you did make it up too late to spawn the last Madame could always try clearing them in the hopes of getting the one you're missing.