Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[futceez]

The 5th floor North mobs definitely drop absolutely nothing except Bhflau Cards. There about 12+8+12 gears +4 ramparts + chariot. The gears are all triple gears but easy to kill. The rampart is a bit harder and the chariot is as hard as in Bhaflau. Clearing the entire 5th floor north is definitely possible but has not yet been done yet but it is not an easy task and very time consuming. We killed everything but the chariot and ran out of time on our last attempt.

[divisortheory]

This may not be worth considering, but speculation on Aircommand currently is that 4th and 5th floor NMs are "just up" if you get to the floor with a certain amount of time remaining. There's a long thread about it, and I can only read like hafl the posts. The last post in the thread says "we got there in about 45 minutes, and the NM was not up. Maybe need to get there in 40 minutes or less"

[Julian]

That's not hard to test, only thing you really need to kill to move on here is one room in 2nd floor, ramparts in 4th floor, and chariot/gears on 6th.

[divisortheory]

That's not hard to test, only thing you really need to kill to move on here is one room in 2nd floor, ramparts in 4th floor, and chariot/gears on 6th.

you don't even need to kill 1 room in 2nd floor technically. The porter is open, just that the other 3 rooms aren't. In theory you could make it to 4th floor in like 7 or 8 minutes if you don't kill anything, lol.

[Julian]

Ack, the door from the room you get teleported into on the 2nd floor is already open yeah?

Sorry, haven't done this in so long I kinda confused the facts.

But that only makes this theory every easier to test

[divisortheory]

Ack, the door from the room you get teleported into on the 2nd floor is already open yeah?

Sorry, haven't done this in so long I kinda confused the facts.

But that only makes this theory every easier to test

I'm almost positive it's the entries to the other rooms that are locked, not the exit from the first room. I think I tested this the first time I tried the zone.

[Ryushii]

The time limit thing would have to be a minimum amount of time left, at least for floors 5/6. Someone with under 40 mins left there would have to have noticed an NM up there by now.

[futceez]

Too lazy to read and analyze previous posts about this.

Is it confirmed that discoid is actually NOT 3000 or 4000 needles? Is it just a normal AOE that can be reduced by shell and bar-spell if it has an element?

Sorry

[Sci]

Too lazy to read and analyze previous posts about this.

Is it confirmed that discoid is actually NOT 3000 or 4000 needles? Is it just a normal AOE that can be reduced by shell and bar-spell if it has an element?

It's both? It's AoE spread across how many it hits, and the damage is reduced by shell. No word on the barspells. It seems odd though, a melee without shell got hit for more than everyone else in range which makes sense. But a white mage within range got hit for the same damage as everyone else.

[Suiram]

Also, Discoid seems to be exactly equal to 3,436 Needles. lol, no clue where that shit comes from.

Just to satisfy my curiosity on a somewhat unrelated question, did it hit one person for 3436? Or did it hit two people for 1718 or four for 859, etc.?

Also, noob socket question, can you trade say, 2 opacus and 2 incus, or do they all have to be of the same type? Also, can you pop it again once you've popped it, or is a once-per-run type of deal?

[Not Kuno]

Has to be same type of cell, dissapears when popped. It's a porogoo and can charmga in Zhay. >.>

[divisortheory]

Also, Discoid seems to be exactly equal to 3,436 Needles. lol, no clue where that shit comes from.

Just to satisfy my curiosity on a somewhat unrelated question, did it hit one person for 3436? Or did it hit two people for 1718 or four for 859, etc.?

Also, noob socket question, can you trade say, 2 opacus and 2 incus, or do they all have to be of the same type? Also, can you pop it again once you've popped it, or is a once-per-run type of deal?

Once it hit 2 people for 1145 and a third person for 1146.
The next time it hit 4 people for exactly 859 each.

However, someone posted on a previous page that a JP group reported it to be 4,400 Needles. All of us had Shell IV on, which would bring 4,400 down to 3,436. So, it stands to reason that it's 4,400 Needles and damage is negated by Shell.

[Suiram]

Yeah I posted that, but I was trying earlier today to figure out why it was 3436 and not 3437, which is why I asked lol

[divisortheory]

oh, lol. Anyway, yea. The fact that I got 3,436 with two different amounts of people is pretty conslusive.


Edit: Ok I figured it out. VZX always refers to damage formulas using "2 digit rounding". Apply the same here.

4,400 / 256 = 17.1875

Truncate to 2 digits = 17.18

Multiply by 200 = 3,436

[Suiram]

oh, lol. Anyway, yea. The fact that I got 3,436 with two different amounts of people is pretty conslusive.


Edit: Ok I figured it out. VZX always refers to damage formulas using "2 digit rounding". Apply the same here.

4,400 / 256 = 17.1875

Truncate to 2 digits = 17.18

Multiply by 200 = 3,436

Yeah that's what I thought it was earlier (3 digit truncation actually) but that doesn't work with other data. But I was operating under the assumption that you actually saw one person get hit for 3436. Having 4 people get hit with 859 and even one with 1415, one with 1416 (depending on how the base damage is distributed) floats with the prior understanding.

Edit: Because the shell happens after the damage is divided so it's
floor(1100 * 200/256) = 859, no truncation in the term for shell.

That way doesn't seem to work with the other data, either.

[divisortheory]

oh, lol. Anyway, yea. The fact that I got 3,436 with two different amounts of people is pretty conslusive.


Edit: Ok I figured it out. VZX always refers to damage formulas using "2 digit rounding". Apply the same here.

4,400 / 256 = 17.1875

Truncate to 2 digits = 17.18

Multiply by 200 = 3,436

Yeah that's what I thought it was earlier (3 digit truncation actually) but that doesn't work with other data. But I was operating under the assumption that you actually saw one person get hit for 3436. Having 4 people get hit with 859 and even one with 1415, one with 1416 (depending on how the base damage is distributed) floats with the prior understanding.

Edit: Because the shell happens after the damage is divided so it's
floor(1100 * 200/256) = 859, no truncation in the term for shell.

Hmm, but that way might work, too. Someone who gets hit solo with shell 4 post a screenshot please.

How do we know shell happens after it's divided? My understanding is that Discoid is the only enemy move in the game that is a Needles type attack but is also negated by Shell. So it's hard to say for sure when Shell is applied. The fact that it works out perfectly with shell applied before the damage split leads me to believe that at least for this move, it probably is. One day I'm sure I'll get a SS of it hitting one person though. Just have to do it a few more times after spamming Arrapago to get some completions.

[divisortheory]

Also it's important to note whether or not division or multiplication happens first, since each step is floored. You seem to be making the assumption that multiplication is happening first.

[Suiram]

Because in any other magic damage that has been tested, the term with shell is always applied last. It stands to reason too, since you have to consider that not everyone will necessarily have shell on. Either way, the question wasn't regarding the damage from the boss specifically, but what can be learned from damage of consistent number of such a magnitude.

As it pertains to the boss itself, 3436 or 3437 you're gonna die either way if you don't have some other people standing around when it goes off.

Edit: And yes i considered flooring and the various permutations of multiplication or division.

[Lindstrom]

Or you know, aoe breath damage, but whatever, sure, they totally made it a random retarded number needles.

[divisortheory]

Or you know, aoe breath damage, but whatever, sure, they totally made it a random retarded number needles.

You personally said this on a pervious page:

Breath damage is based on level and HP of the mob using it, determined by the WS. Magic Def. Bonus doesn't do anything for it, nor does Shell, not sure about Magic Damage -%

Since we know Shell works against Discoid, and we know shell doesn't work against Breath damage, what makes you think it was Breath damage? If shell does work against Breath damage and your statement was incorrect, then maybe that's something we can consider.