Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[divisortheory]

15 minutes on the first floor seems awfully fast. We didn't use any dat trickery, but it took my group ~19 minutes when we were rushing to the 4F. All we did was clear the 4 inner rooms, 1 room of lindwurms, and most of the wing of ziz. We would skip mobs if we got 2 drops in a room. And we skipped all the mamools.

The DAT trick, while possibly disagreeable to some, would obviously cut your time down a lot. And if you have enough people that you can split, then the total amount of time required to spend on 1F would basically be the amount of time required to clear 2 mobs each from the 4 inner rooms, since the other group would be killing in parallel, and you could warp almost as soon as the 4 inner rooms were killed (8 mobs total).

[Suiram]

A couple quick questions and an observation. I know we killed these a while ago but I can't remember what it was and now we typically skip them, but the 3rd floor North Mamools, and 4th floor Mamools (most importantly south, but also North if you happen to know), do they drop anything, and if so, does anyone recall what?

Also, regarding Discoid, there's something unusual going on regarding its area of effect. A couple times tonight, the way we were positioned, people were in range of Discoid but out of range of Discharge, which we were previously led to believe was not possible. Also one time someone was hit by Discoid, another person standing right next to him was not, and neither were hit by Discharge. My best guess is that it's 10' centered around the target, whereas Discharge is 10' centered around the chariot, which would also explain why some people thought it to be 7' or less, if they were on the opposite side of the chariot from the tank. Unfortunately we didn't really have a chance to verify if that's in fact what it is.

[Map]

Still no word on the 4th and 5th floor Madame conditions.

I'm really starting to lean towards a random pop. I'm at the point where I think Zhayolm should go something like this:

I wonder if repeating the 4th floor by chosing the wrong rampart can give multiple chances at a lottery pop madame, if that is the case. Would make frightening sense as to why the 4th floor was designed as it was.

[divisortheory]

Still no word on the 4th and 5th floor Madame conditions.

I'm really starting to lean towards a random pop. I'm at the point where I think Zhayolm should go something like this:

I wonder if repeating the 4th floor by chosing the wrong rampart can give multiple chances at a lottery pop madame, if that is the case. Would make frightening sense as to why the 4th floor was designed as it was.

Yea I've thought about that possibility as well. I know when I did it we got sent back 4-5 times, and we checked for a madame every time. of course, if it's a 5-10% pop, it's no surprise really we didn't see it.

[divisortheory]

It's interesting in that in Arrapago, Bhaflau, and Silver Sea, when you're killing the NMs that drop Lv. 35 equipment, you will necessarily need to kill the mobs that drop the Lv. 15 equipment (this is arguable in Arrapago, but subjobs are pretty damn important). Applying the same reasoning to Zhayolm, could it be that there are no madames on 5th and 6th floor (similar to 6F Qiqirn Treasure Hunter in Arrapago), and that 35s are a rare drop from the Lv. 15 NMs?


Notice Bhaflau and Arrapago are sister zones, and in tboth cases 35s are from NM, and 15 are from normal mobs.

Silver Sea and Zhayolm are also sister zones, and since in Silver Sea the 35s drop from the exact same NMs that the 15s drop, with 100% 15s and <100% 35s, I wonder if you could apply this same methodology to zhayolm? Perhaps people have been killing the Lv. 35 NMs all along.

idk. And unfortunately I won't even get to this zone for quite some time, until we get lots of route 1 and 2 pieces completed.

[futceez]

Still no word on the 4th and 5th floor Madame conditions.

I'm really starting to lean towards a random pop. I'm at the point where I think Zhayolm should go something like this:

I wonder if repeating the 4th floor by chosing the wrong rampart can give multiple chances at a lottery pop madame, if that is the case. Would make frightening sense as to why the 4th floor was designed as it was.

Yea I've thought about that possibility as well. I know when I did it we got sent back 4-5 times, and we checked for a madame every time. of course, if it's a 5-10% pop, it's no surprise really we didn't see it.

I'm starting to get a strong sense (mirroring with arrapago) that since arrapago NMs are 100% up but have approx 5~10% drop rate on LV35 and also speculating that drop rate varies by difficulty.

Based on your theories and the unconfirmed reports on the Madames, I think the Madames are 100% drop rate and probably 5~10% pop rate as you enter the floor and we can speculate that there is a time condition or maybe (I think) the faster you get to the floor, the higher the pop rate and it may also be true that 4F possibly has multiple chances of popping with a lower pop rate because you get multiple chances.

This is actually starting to make some sense, just need some spammage in this zone as there was in arrapago to confirm the theories and speculations.

I also think that there is 1 or 2 NMs in arrapago and zhayolm that don't fit the pattern. They are the "supposed" 2 QQTHs on the 6F in arrapago and the 2 madames on the 3F in zhayolm. The madames in 3F zhayolm mirror the pop condition of silver seas NMs. Maybe the 2 QQTH in 6F arrapago mirror the pop condition of bhaflau NMs since apparently they don't spawn by opening the door or by clearing the floor and there are 2 "ramparts" that spawn when you open the door that serve no other purpose. Maybe QQTH is a rare summon from the ramparts.

I'll post this in the arrapago thread too.

[Frodorn]

I'm starting to get a strong sense (mirroring with arrapago) that since arrapago NMs are 100% up but have approx 5~10% drop rate on LV35 and also speculating that drop rate varies by difficulty.

I'm not seeing that... if it were true Bhaflau Remnants would have to have a rather high drop rate on level 35 gear since you first have to pop it using some crazy obscure thing like kill all flans in spike mode, and then it takes a Massive amount of time to let a Rampart Spawn all 100 Mobs where the NM is just a Lotto pop, with a very poor drop rate.

[Not Kuno]

I'm starting to get a strong sense (mirroring with arrapago) that since arrapago NMs are 100% up but have approx 5~10% drop rate on LV35 and also speculating that drop rate varies by difficulty.

I'm not seeing that... if it were true Bhaflau Remnants would have to have a rather high drop rate on level 35 gear since you first have to pop it using some crazy obscure thing like kill all flans in spike mode, and then it takes a Massive amount of time to let a Rampart Spawn all 100 Mobs where the NM is just a Lotto pop, with a very poor drop rate.

Bhaf mirrors SS. SS has all the NMs already up with a lowish% on 35s as opposed to Bhaf where you have to spawn the 35 nms.

[Frodorn]

I'm starting to get a strong sense (mirroring with arrapago) that since arrapago NMs are 100% up but have approx 5~10% drop rate on LV35 and also speculating that drop rate varies by difficulty.

I'm not seeing that... if it were true Bhaflau Remnants would have to have a rather high drop rate on level 35 gear since you first have to pop it using some crazy obscure thing like kill all flans in spike mode, and then it takes a Massive amount of time to let a Rampart Spawn all 100 Mobs where the NM is just a Lotto pop, with a very poor drop rate.

Bhaf mirrors SS. SS has all the NMs already up with a lowish% on 35s as opposed to Bhaf where you have to spawn the 35 nms.

Which would mean Bhaf would have a much higher Drop rate... and it doesn't. which is my point.. if Bhaf and SS Drop rate don't mirror each other why would Arrapago and Zhayolm?

[Not Kuno]

It doesnt have to be an exact opposite. Some of the SS stuff has to be popped, while almost every arra guy is up (except 5f QQA).

Think of like Bhaf and SS more "normal", but opposite while Arra and Zhay are more "extreme" and also opposite.

[divisortheory]

I'm starting to get a strong sense (mirroring with arrapago) that since arrapago NMs are 100% up but have approx 5~10% drop rate on LV35 and also speculating that drop rate varies by difficulty.

I'm not seeing that... if it were true Bhaflau Remnants would have to have a rather high drop rate on level 35 gear since you first have to pop it using some crazy obscure thing like kill all flans in spike mode, and then it takes a Massive amount of time to let a Rampart Spawn all 100 Mobs where the NM is just a Lotto pop, with a very poor drop rate.

Actually Bhaflau NMs are a fairly high drop rate. Seems like about 25% from the HQ ramaprt.

[Frodorn]

Meh i still think your all giving SE far to much credit...

Really What better way to increase the time sink, then with a bottleneck

[Not Kuno]

Meh i still think your all giving SE far to much credit...

Really What better way to increase the time sink, then with a bottleneck

1% chance is alot better then a big 0% from HNMs.

[divisortheory]

if Bhaf and SS Drop rate don't mirror each other why would Arrapago and Zhayolm?

Also, there's different types of mirroring:

Bhaflau and Silver Sea mirror each other in zone layout, boss name
Arrapago and Zhayolm mirror each other in zone layout, boss name

Arrapago and Bhaflau mirror each other in enemy drop conditions
Silver Sea and Zhayolm mirror each other in enemy drop conditions (?)

Arrapago and Silver Sea mirror each other in 15/35 availability
Zhayolm and Bhaflau mirror each other in 15/35 availability

[Not Kuno]

Silver Sea and Zhayolm mirror each other in enemy drop conditions (?)

They do. They both have guarenteed drops from mobs. Zhay's first floor has a ton of guarenteed and SS has certain places like the 1st floor room of 8 and the 2ndF imps in that fomor room that drop the same stuff 100% of the time.

[divisortheory]

Silver Sea and Zhayolm mirror each other in enemy drop conditions (?)

They do. They both have guarenteed drops from mobs. Zhay's first floor has a ton of guarenteed and SS has certain places like the 1st floor room of 8 and the 2ndF imps in that fomor room that drop the same stuff 100% of the time.

To truly mirror the drop conditions we need to know how/where to obtain the 35s. Otherwise yea.

[Sci]

Wanted to try a zerg strategy on the boss, but found out the hard way that it builds stun resistance before CS Stun will complete. Although our RDM/DRK didn't have weapons unlocked I think, so that probably didn't help. Seems like slow and steady is the way to kill this boss, and have people try to stun Discoid. At the very least my group was able to farm the zone a lot better and made it to the boss with around 20 minutes.

[divisortheory]

Would you recommend that all the people in Discoid range actually melee it to death (spamming it with TP), or just stand there so they can take damage, but let the primary DD come from 1-2 MNKs and BLMs

[Sci]

You really want to limit TP spam, think of it like any other Chariot, even the one you have to fight on the previous floor to get to it. If you only have a few people feeding it TP, and you have extra bodies in range, then it should be fairly manageable. It hits really weak by the way. My NIN/WAR was getting hit for as low as 90 a hit, and didn't have hands unlocked. I almost wonder if it would be worth bringing a COR for Monk's roll, just how much the +subtle blow would help.

Oh and kiting is not an option, at nighttime with +25% movement speed, I couldn't shake it for more than a second, even running around pillars. Maybe if people are really good about pulling hate off each other, and if Discoid range was short it could work.

[Suiram]

Is there some place people are getting armor cells on floors 3-5? Or are you just hitting a couple mobs in each room of floor 2 to get your tank fully-clothed? We barely make it to the boss with over 15 min and that's only hitting one room in floor 2 with 10-12 people.