Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[Ambir]

Discoid is 10' conal from target. Other moves are 10' radial from chariot. Since your tanks are standing a good 3-5' in front of the chariot, there's a good pocket of distance where you will take discoid but not the other moves.

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[divisortheory]

Couple questions about this zones boss:

I am reading that having tanks just tank it from the front, and have the entire alliance eat Discoid, pretty much handles this Bosses only quirk. My question is wont Diffusion Ray also hit our alliance? Or is the range different? Dont really want 500 damage Ray hitting our mages w/o hp unlocked.

Also, trying to decide wether to do the .dat switch to allow us to see which mob drops cells, but never messed with dats before. Where would i access these days? (Can number them and catalog which drop what myself, just dont have experience with the subject).

Program Files\PlayOnline\Final Fantasy XI\ROM4\1\72.DAT

On a recent run I decided to have the 2 MNKs switch to WAR to see what it was like with 2 Ridills since we get the chest early on. Was funny because in that situation it was probably faster not to use the DAT replacement, and just immediately pull and kill everything. Shoot mob #1 -> tank 1 vokes -> shoot mob #2 -> mage dias -> shoot mob #3 -> tank vokes again, etc. I could pull the entire room wihout a second of rest between pulls and mobs were already dead before the next mob got to camp. Would have been slower if I had actually waited for them to separate so that they didn't link and tried to single out the cell dropping mobs.

[Neosutra]

Discoid is 10' conal from target. Other moves are 10' radial from chariot. Since your tanks are standing a good 3-5' in front of the chariot, there's a good pocket of distance where you will take discoid but not the other moves.

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Ya, but Diffusion Ray is not 10' radial, its a conal attack. So is it still possible to get our alliance in range of Discoid, but not in range of Diffusion Ray?

[Julian]

5f S madame wasn't up at 53 minutes.

Meh. If it's not up at at 60-65 minutes, which I don't think it will be, then we might have to go back to the drawing board

Personally I've always thought the 3 ramparts in the dead end room and the chariot are a little awkwardly placed. Why even have them there in the first place? Maybe it's related to those somehow. Or maybe it's a combination of things. Maybe you have to kill all 3 of those ramparts before the N minute mark, or kill all 3 ramparts having arrived at 5F in under a certain amount of time.

I think this is most likely true, I mean, look at the Madame Pop Conditions:

Floor3: Clear an entire side
Floor4: Enter within a certain amount of time
Floor5: ???

Would only make sense if it had its own condition too, imo =/ And before someone plays the JP card, JPs are full of BS.

[futceez]

I really think returning to the drawing board is a good idea for 5F madames. I remember trying to clear 5F N and the 3 odd-ly placed ramparts in the isolated room are particularly harder than all the clusters of gears. The gears just seem like a small obstacle but I think the ramparts are definitely not there as an obstacle. The chariot is also pretty tough and that certainly isn't there as an obstacle to enter the next floor either or maybe it is since its stationed in front of the door. The 3 odd-ly placed ramparts definitely have to have something to do with the madames. And it seems we still don't have confirmations for 30-35 on 5F N and 45-50 on 5F S which are the most likely pop times for 5F madames if it is a timed condition.

[divisortheory]

I really think returning to the drawing board is a good idea for 5F madames. I remember trying to clear 5F N and the 3 odd-ly placed ramparts in the isolated room are particularly harder than all the clusters of gears. The gears just seem like a small obstacle but I think the ramparts are definitely not there as an obstacle. The chariot is also pretty tough and that certainly isn't there as an obstacle to enter the next floor either or maybe it is since its stationed in front of the door. The 3 odd-ly placed ramparts definitely have to have something to do with the madames. And it seems we still don't have confirmations for 30-35 on 5F N and 45-50 on 5F S which are the most likely pop times for 5F madames if it is a timed condition.

A good place to start for going back to the drawing board would be a) trying to find out if the 3 dead-end ramparts have any elemental resistances, and b) trying to kill the ramparts and the chariots without killing or aggroing any gears.

Also I should point out that on 3F and 4F the ramparts serve a specific purpose, and and 6F the chariots serve a purpose. Be weird if neither served a purpose on 5F.

One more thing to add is that you can completely avoid the gears in the first room if you hug the walls. When I did this last time, I had an entire alliance of 13 people hugging the walls of the room all the way from one side to the other, and nobody got aggro.

Oh, and for 6F, I was reading on a JP BBS that the east and west ramparts both spawn manticores, but that they are of very different strengths. I don't remember which it said was harder, but it said that the harder one is way harder and more HP.

[Ayn]

The last Zhayolm run we did, we tried to fight one of the ramparts for shits and giggles. It spawned the manticore that had a fuckton of HP. Unfortunately, I didn't note which one it was, I'm afraid.. and it may be awhile before we attempt a Zhayolm farming run again, since we'd like to down the boss a few times first.

[Sady]

With regards to the 5FS Madame NM, I think our best information to work with remains this:

Don't have any screenshots since I wasn't on this run, but one of my other LS' teams did zhayolm on saturday night and I just now found out they fought and killed Madame on 5th floor South. It popped in the same room Qiqirn Astrologer pops in from Arrapago. The info I have is somewhat lacking in detail since I don't think anyone on the run even realized what was happening since Muteki was following info from some JP forums he had and expected it to just be up and it was.

They aimed to spend the following time on each floor only to pop the 5th floor South Madame and kill the boss.

15>15>10>10>10>20>20mins

Muteki's english isn't the best but I think I am getting this correct. They would farm mobs on each floor up until the exact window was reached and warp up immediately so they didn't exceed the times listed above. Of course the side effect of those short times is they didnt kill any Frogs on 1st floor or 4th floor. They didn't kill any mamools on 1st floor but did kill some on later floor for HP/MP cells. Madame dropped nothing(big shock) and a chest with lots of meds.

To which I asked that they elaborate recieving the following reply:

Any more information you have reguarding this would be highly appreciated. Such as, was the 4th floor Madame up (they should have entered within the 40-45 min "window")? Was the 5th floor Madame just up, or did they do something to force the pop? I'm currently setting up a run to test a few theories regarding 4th and 5th floor NMs so any input would help me alot. Thanks!

The 5th Floor NM was just up when they zoned in, they didn't do anything to pop it. I have no idea if 4th floor was up or not, I don't think anyone even checked since they were aiming 5th floor specifically since the information he had said Marduk 35 Body dropped from it.

Take this with a grain of salt but, if this is correct that would put them on the 5th floor right around the 50 minute mark. Unfortunately, both the 45-50 (who said this???) and 50-55 minute windows have been "disprooven" so there's a bit of conflicting evidence here... Perhaps the window for 5FS is much smaller? Say 49-51 minutes elapsed. This definitely needs more testing.

[docvicious]

Earlier in the thread, I noted that we Did fight the ramparts on 6th floor since there was no time to clear chariot, The rampart was fairly difficult for a small group not life threatening but difficult, It spawned a manticore that had A LOT of hp and I do mean alot, took us well over 6 minutes with skill chains to down it. It then dropped a chest with quite a few major temporary items, body boost, invincible drink, magic invincible drink, dusty potions, flee drink, tp regin, it was not short what so ever. was at least 2 of each minus the invincible drinks that were at 1.

[Ambir]

Discoid is 10' conal from target. Other moves are 10' radial from chariot. Since your tanks are standing a good 3-5' in front of the chariot, there's a good pocket of distance where you will take discoid but not the other moves.

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Ya, but Diffusion Ray is not 10' radial, its a conal attack. So is it still possible to get our alliance in range of Discoid, but not in range of Diffusion Ray?

Conal is still a set distance from the point of origin.

[divisortheory]

I just found a JP site that describes in detail how to pop the 5th floor North Poroggo Madame. I don't feel like translating now, so if anyone else speaks Japanese, feel free. Whether or not it can be believed, I have no idea. Definitely sounds convoluted and complicated if true. I only really skimmed it and didn't have time to do a full translation so not sure if I missed some subtle wording that changes the way I understod it, but if I did understand it correctly then it inovlves killing gears and ramparts in the first area.


??????????????? ???????NM????????????????????????????????????????? ? 5?????? Archaic Rampart ????????????(?)?????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????3????????????????????? ? ??????????????Archaic Gears ???????????? Poroggo Madame ??????????? 3???5????????????????????? H6?H7?????G7?H7?????G8??????????????H7?H8????????? ?????????????? ????5?8?????????????????????????????????????????? Archaic Rampart ?WS?????????????????? Archaic Rampart ??????????????????? ???????? Archaic Rampart ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????? Mindgazer ????Torama ????????????????????????? 5???6?????????????????NM????????????????5??6?????? ??????????????????

[aurik]

Meh, it doesn't do much more than speculate.

[divisortheory]

Seems to indicate they popped it 3 times, unless I read it wrong.

[aurik]

Yea but they don't seem to know why, as far as I can tell.

[divisortheory]

Yea. unless they're lying though we can rule out a purely time-based condition, because it said the NM wasn't up when they arrived to the floor. instead it seems to have popped while they were in the middle of fighting gears and rampart. But seems like the Mindgazer and Torama rampart were ignored? So some combination of fighting gears and the non-mindgazer non-torama rampart has a <= 100% chance of popping the NM. Either that or it's just made up. >.>

Edit: Maybe kill the gears in order? >.> lol. They move around the room in a perfectly circular path I think, maybe kill them clockwise or counterclockwise?

[aurik]

muteki@btl said they did nothing special to pop 5fS madame.

[divisortheory]

Yea, this would be a symmetry break since it's about North.

[Elmer the Pointy]

I got your message Divisory, so here's what I can make of it

Archaic Ramparts on the 5th floor North route are Passive, but have set conditions that can make them Active (aggro to magic) I cast Cure on myself next to it and it reacted so we know this for sure. We apologize, but we are still investigating the exact conditions of them being Active. Currently, we've done this 3 times.

After making the Rampart Active, we engage and defeat the Archaic Gears, and then a Poroggo Madame pops in the area. It did not immediately pop just by arriving at floor 5 all three times we went there.

It popped in the little rooms at H-6~H-7, G-7~H-7, and the big room at G-8. We suspect it could also pop at the small room around H-7~H-8, but it is unconfirmed.

It popped while killing about 5-8 Gears. It is not summoned with an Archaic Rampart's "Call" ability. The Active Archaic Rampart used "Astral Gate" and ?? shourai(some other WS, I don't know the English version). It never used "Call" no matter how long we waited (we don't think it's a coincidence).

The Mindgazer one and the Torama one were both the same so we think this may be the correct method. The 5th floor South path and the 6th floor may have this same "Active rampart" and Notorious Monster relationship.

I hope this makes some sense. I only experienced a little Salvage and haven't been in the game for while. Would engaging a Rampart then killing gears really be conditions to pop the NM?

[divisortheory]

Hmm, sounds like he said he was standing right in the middle of the 3 ramparts and none of them were aggroing, then he cast cure on himself but only one of them aggroed? If so that's pretty interesting, and could be a clue.

[Sagacious Sundi]

So basically:
Cast magic by the ramparts > Fight gears while holding the active rampart > Madame pops

Is what they did?