Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[Slott]

It's based on the day you've entered salvage. When we were testing it we'd go up the "entry day" rampart we theorized, and it would always take us up 100%. Shame speeding through gave us no froggies though on the 5f N.

I'd like to butt in and say that our last Zhayolm Run, First Rampart = Watersday = Unlock portal.

Must have been south side / not the day of entry.

Thanks for the clarification Good info to know...assuming this is just for north path though, right?

[divisortheory]

This may sound far-fetched but I'm just tossing ideas out in hopes someone who feels like experimenting can try them, since I already have a long list of things I want to try with respect to 5F south Madame. Has anyone ever killed 3 ramparts in the south room and still not had the teleporter unlock? I was thinking about what if there's actually two ramparts that unlock it, one just takes you up, but one takes you up with Madame. Seems a little unlikely, but also seems like a pure time based condition is looking less and less likely, which would mean it's either a pure random pop, or it's based on something you did previously. If it were based on another rampart, I would think it probably weak element or strong element, as opposed to killing the rampart for the same element as the day.

If this were correct, maybe someone would have found it already. Then again, nobody ever really checks either, they just plow through the floor. I'm thinking there have probably been quite a few successful pops of 5F S Madame that went unnoticed. I know I've plowed through 5F S multiple times with no RNG in the group and didn't stop to look in the Rampart room.

[Lordwafik]

It's based on the day you've entered salvage. When we were testing it we'd go up the "entry day" rampart we theorized, and it would always take us up 100%. Shame speeding through gave us no froggies though on the 5f N.

I'd like to butt in and say that our last Zhayolm Run, First Rampart = Watersday = Unlock portal.

Must have been south side / not the day of entry.

Thanks for the clarification Good info to know...assuming this is just for north path though, right?

Yeah North side, I actually haven't been to the south side so I can't answer on that one, lol.

[Slott]

DT, I have. We have had to kill all 4 ramparts in south to teleport to the 5th floor before. However, I'm not sure if madame was up or not (although I highly doubt it, and we were just going for boss, this was like 2 months ago at least)

However, knowing that only 1 rampart unlocks the portal, this could open up new potential. Perhaps a rampart is there just to pop the madame, while another is for the teleporter? This wouldn't be hard to test by just clearing all 4 ramparts.

[Sady]

In light of the info regarding Bhaflau Remnants 3F RR, we should consider similar Ying and Yang style pop conditions for the remaining mystery NMs.

For 5FS Madame, perhaps killing a certain two of the four ramparts within some time interval is they key? Has anyone poped the 5FS madame having only killed one rampart?

A similar conjecture could be made for the 6F rampart pairs, not only in this zone but also in Arrapago Remnants.

[NynJa]

This may or not be concidence, but if you look at the Silver Sea and Arrapago dats, floors w/ multiple ramparts are listed like so:
Rampart
MOB
MOB
Rampart
MOB
MOB


However, in Zhayolm, its written like this
First
Second
...
MOB
MOB

even the floor w/ the mindgazers follows the Ramp-Ramp-Mob-Mob pattern instead of Ramp-Mob-Ramp-Mob.



I dont think thats an accident.

[Shadida]

Has anyone ever killed 3 ramparts in the south room and still not had the teleporter unlock?

If my memory serves then yes, I've seen it at least once.

[divisortheory]

For 5FS Madame, perhaps killing a certain two of the four ramparts within some time interval is they key? Has anyone poped the 5FS madame having only killed one rampart?

I like this idea. It extends nicely to the case of 4F North as well. First you would kill the Madame rampart, then get warped back, then kill the teleporter rampart. It would mean that the original JP report of having only 1 aggroing rampart / fighting gears is false. But that's a distinct possibility anyway.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Wasn't the JP report just talking about 5F North?

EDIT: Also, could killing both manticores simulteneously be a possible spawn condition for the 6F madame?

[divisortheory]

Wasn't the JP report just talking about 5F North?

Yea, but my above post was only talking about north anyway.

[Vejitta]

Forgive me if this was already quoted, but is 2nd floor the only source of equip (excluding incus cell) in this Salvage?

[Slott]

first floor all weap ja sj magic

2nd floor all gear

3rd floor stats
4th floor stats

after that you're fucked

[Wizerd]

first floor all weap ja sj magic

2nd floor all gear

3rd floor stats
4th floor stats

after that you're fucked

Don't Poroggos on 4F drop gear? That's what I heard, never fought them though.

[Aemora]

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t.../ZRun03-03.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t.../ZRun03-04.jpg

That's all we've gotten from killing the North side Frogs... Waste IMO.

[Suiram]

4F south frogs dropped a lot of gear and MP one time we cleared them with a THF. Hardly dropped any the 2nd time we cleared them without one. They seemed to have the kind of drop that you see in Salvage sometimes where the cell drops aren't guaranteed, but when they do drop, it's always in sets of 2 or 3, 3 in this case. So it's all or nothing, but the chance of whether you get 'all' depends on TH? And the frogs can drop 3 or 6 drops each, (0, 1, or 2 sets of 3 cells). That's my best guess for 4th south frogs based on the two times we've killed them, both pre-patch as well.

[divisortheory]

Information explosion

4th floor North Madame

• Arrival at 4th floor North within 30 minutes

4th floor South Madame

• Arrival at 4th floor South within 45 minutes

5th floor North Madame

• Arrival at 5th floor North having spent no more than 15 minutes on any previous floor.

5th floor south Madame

• Arrival at 5th floor South having spent no more than 15 minutes on any previous floor.

5th floor Archaic Chariot

• Weakens boss, and is thought to drop equipment

6th floor Madame

• Arrival at 6th floor within 50 minutes (unconfirmed)

All of these are unconfirmed in my eyes until someone tries them and reports back in English with screenshots. The 6th floor condition is unconfirmed according to the original source as well.

[Slott]

5th floor ones would go with my theory that it's based on time spent per floor rather than net time in zone, which groups seemed to be experiencing. Cool info - maybe we'll try some out later.

edit in: did they list anything about confirmed drops?

[Suiram]

5th floor North Madame

• Arrival at 5th floor North having spent no more than 15 minutes on any previous floor.

If this is the case, it should presumably be popped when you arrive on floor 5, which contradicts the translated testimony posted earlier.

[Lhexh]

Actually all those conditions make a lot of sense to me now that I go back and look at the differences between Muteki's team success at popping frogs and my lack of success. His guideline for reaching 5F always had durations of 10 or 15 minutes on each floor whereas I would always spend an extra 5 minutes on 1st floor since we cleared the 2-4 floors quicker to reach 5F in the same 5 minute window. I really hope that informatino ends up being accurate since it at least allows for the possibility of doing 4FS, 5FS, 5F Chariot, and boss in the same runs as well as other combinations of multiple frogs per run.

[divisortheory]

5th floor North Madame

• Arrival at 5th floor North having spent no more than 15 minutes on any previous floor.

If this is the case, it should presumably be popped when you arrive on floor 5, which contradicts the translated testimony posted earlier.

Agreed, but it's also very easy to test. Keep in mind that testimony from before was from like March or April or something. It could have been BS. The wording of the source I got all this from also seemed a little ambiguous. I was reading a different message from the same person later on and regarding 5th floor it also said "maybe killing of enemies is also involved?" So, idk. But these are some good ideas to test, and it also explains my experiences with the 5F South Madame pretty accurately. The two times it popped specific per-floor guidelines were set, none of which allowed more than 15 minutes on a single floor. The time it didn't pop there was a few deaths which slowed things down and caused one floor to take around 17m.