Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[Suiram]

I should mention, with regards to the translated bit about 5th floor north, that we went a week or so ago and tried to recreate it. Someone sacced the room of gears while I slipped by to the 3x rampart room, where I cast shockspikes on myself repeatedly shouting "ACTIVATE" to no avail. We cleared the first gears room and half-cleared the 2nd room with the fourth rampart, where we linked a ton and decided to wipe/log, I tried to slip past the rampart to the other side before logging so I could test the magic-aggro thing from behind it, but a gear I'd slept woke up and followed, linking the Rampart. When I reraised up nothing happened when I was casting and no Madame ever popped, but when we got around to killing that rampart it never once used Reinforcements in all the time we were killing it, and we killed it kinda slow and it used a lot of TP moves, which conforms to the translated info about the special rampart. My guess is we 'broke its specialness' when I linked it during the wipe/log thing, assuming that info has any basis in truth.

[aurik]

It's actually not that hard to get around 5fN without aggro once you learn the gear movement patterns.

[Suiram]

It's actually not that hard to get around 5fN without aggro once you learn the gear movement patterns.

Oh? I can see the big room obviously, and the 2nd small room since the gears path like dynamis stones (the reason we linked that room is because NIN voked one before it had finished moving so there was a clump that all linked), but the first room you encounter off the portal seems to have like 8 3-gear all without any discernible pattern of movement, we just had the THF PD and gather them all up while tanks grabbed a couple and I slipped past.

[aurik]

It's actually not that hard to get around 5fN without aggro once you learn the gear movement patterns.

Oh? I can see the big room obviously, and the 2nd small room since the gears path like dynamis stones (the reason we linked that room is because NIN voked one before it had finished moving so there was a clump that all linked), but the first room you encounter off the portal seems to have like 8 3-gear all without any discernible pattern of movement, we just had the THF PD and gather them all up while tanks grabbed a couple and I slipped past.

Gimmie a few minutes, I'll draw you a diagram.

[aurik]

There are actually only 2 "patterns" in this room. First the outer gears will rotate around the pillar counterclockwise, then pause 15 seconds, then rotate 1 step around the pillar clockwise. There are 8 outer gears. There are also 4 inner triple-gears which roam in the grey circle. Those can be dangerous so keep an eye on them.

Each pattern has safe spots (green) and aggro spots (red)
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2792/ccwvq0.png
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1789/cwmm2.png

In these images, north is up. You start on the east.

The safe transition is to wait until the pattern is clockwise and go to the southeast corner. Wait until the gears switch pattern, then go to the south hall. Wait until the gears switch pattern, then go to the southwest corner. Wait until the gears switch pattern, then go to the west hall. If you get hamstrung by the 4 floating free gears, just hang out in the corners which are pretty much always safe.

[Suiram]

Awesome thanks, should make it way easier to test the activate rampart > kill gears instructions outlined in that translated info the next time we try this.

[Nikko]

For 4thFS Madame i can confirm it was up @ 28minute mark which supports the 0-45minute theory, but this was posted on the last page and im wondering if it was a mistake or not.

4FS Madame was poped by porting up around 47 minutes elapsed

[divisortheory]

The original source I found this info on also said something to the effect of "occasionally the Madame will be up even if porting after 45 minutes. It is unclear why"

[Sagacious Sundi]

Maybe it's just a case of "you can't spend X time on Y floor(s)".

[divisortheory]

Frankly this business about not being able to spend more than X minutes on any floor, if true, is going to make NM farming in Zhayolm really difficult and not open to a lot of flexibility job-wise. For example, getting off the first floor in <= 15 minutes. You sure as hell aren't going to be able to kill all 4 inner rooms, plus one of each outer room. The times I've gone we're usually able to get off all 4 inner rooms and a total of 1 outer room in 15 minutes. Your outer room will almost always need to be magic, since without a magic outer room you're stuck with a maximum of 6 possible magic cells for the entire zone, and that's if you're lucky and get 2 magic from the first chest. So if you only have 1 outer room and you've decided it goes to magic, then you either get 7 or 8 magic cells for the entire zone. Obviously fine if you only go with 7-8 people, but not so fine if you go with 12 and only maybe 3 of them are melees.

So, for NM farming, any group with more than 7 or 8 people who need magic will almost definitely -need- to do split farming. What I was thinking about is take a Ridill WAR and a White Mage to duo outer rooms (probably only 1-2 rooms of magic and 1 room of JA will be necessary), give the Ridill WAR first SJ, magic, and JA and use him as a tank against boss later if you decide to do boss. Everyone else does inner rooms only. WHM would need first magic for Stona though and go with the outer room person.


The other option is to dupe some magic cells on 2nd floor. But I haven't fought the Socket Madame on 2nd floor so I have no idea how hard it is. At least the socket is in the NE room so you don't have to port up to Wyverns in order to make use of it. If the Madame is as hard as the other Madames this also may not be a viable option due to water bomb spammage and the fact that nobody will have HP or MP unlocked.

I'm trying to brainstorm to come up with ideas for both large groups and small groups. I also had the idea of possibly taking a MNK/WAR tank instead of MNK/NIN. For one thing the boss hits like a girl, would eliminate the need for magic so you could give to your other mages if you had extra people and not enough manpower for split farming.

[Sagacious Sundi]

How hard would it be if it's just 2F and/or 3F that you can't spend X minutes on? (I would guess 3F, if anything.)

[divisortheory]

Easy if it's anything other than 1F. But I have a feeling it's all. 2nd floor you can exit immediately if you want, but black belts, turbans, haidates, etc really help. 3rd floor you can get off in 15 minutes pretty easily, even if it means a few people are stuck without HP/MP. 1st floor is going to be hard though unless you have a fairly small group.

4th floor might also be hard, but now that the rampart condition is pretty well understood i think it's safe to do Madame 1st, rampart 2nd. That way you don't have to ever kill the marid. Killing the marid slows you down a ton on 4th floor. Will the marid lose aggro if you sleep / bind / invisible then run all the way to teleporter?

[Wizerd]

Easy if it's anything other than 1F. But I have a feeling it's all. 2nd floor you can exit immediately if you want, but black belts, turbans, haidates, etc really help. 3rd floor you can get off in 15 minutes pretty easily, even if it means a few people are stuck without HP/MP. 1st floor is going to be hard though unless you have a fairly small group.

4th floor might also be hard, but now that the rampart condition is pretty well understood i think it's safe to do Madame 1st, rampart 2nd. That way you don't have to ever kill the marid. Killing the marid slows you down a ton on 4th floor. Will the marid lose aggro if you sleep / bind / invisible then run all the way to teleporter?

Why does it matter if the Marid will lose aggro if the Rampart will be dead before you even get TO the teleporter to port up?

[Sagacious Sundi]

I just realized, ~15 mins on each floor is an impossible pop condition if we assume that 4F has been spawned passed (past?) 45 minutes (15 x 3 = 45_). Maybe 20 mins?

[divisortheory]

Easy if it's anything other than 1F. But I have a feeling it's all. 2nd floor you can exit immediately if you want, but black belts, turbans, haidates, etc really help. 3rd floor you can get off in 15 minutes pretty easily, even if it means a few people are stuck without HP/MP. 1st floor is going to be hard though unless you have a fairly small group.

4th floor might also be hard, but now that the rampart condition is pretty well understood i think it's safe to do Madame 1st, rampart 2nd. That way you don't have to ever kill the marid. Killing the marid slows you down a ton on 4th floor. Will the marid lose aggro if you sleep / bind / invisible then run all the way to teleporter?

Why does it matter if the Marid will lose aggro if the Rampart will be dead before you even get TO the teleporter to port up?

Because you can leave someone like a WHM at the porter, and he can warp instantly when the rampart dies. Also, if the marid will lose aggro you can do either Rampart > Madame or Madame > Rampart, whichever you prefer. If the Marid won't lose aggro then doing Rampart > Madame will be much more difficult because you'll have a marid kicking your ass while you do the Madame, since the goal was to avoid spending the time required to kill the marid.

[Wizerd]

Easy if it's anything other than 1F. But I have a feeling it's all. 2nd floor you can exit immediately if you want, but black belts, turbans, haidates, etc really help. 3rd floor you can get off in 15 minutes pretty easily, even if it means a few people are stuck without HP/MP. 1st floor is going to be hard though unless you have a fairly small group.

4th floor might also be hard, but now that the rampart condition is pretty well understood i think it's safe to do Madame 1st, rampart 2nd. That way you don't have to ever kill the marid. Killing the marid slows you down a ton on 4th floor. Will the marid lose aggro if you sleep / bind / invisible then run all the way to teleporter?

Why does it matter if the Marid will lose aggro if the Rampart will be dead before you even get TO the teleporter to port up?

Because you can leave someone like a WHM at the porter, and he can warp instantly when the rampart dies. Also, if the marid will lose aggro you can do either Rampart > Madame or Madame > Rampart, whichever you prefer. If the Marid won't lose aggro then doing Rampart > Madame will be much more difficult because you'll have a marid kicking your ass while you do the Madame, since the goal was to avoid spending the time required to kill the marid.

Ah. Well I believe it was determined that every monster in Salvage has the same following behaviors and lose aggro the same way? Maybe the same as their outside clones?

[Slott]

Sigh, did 15 15 15 15 (under 15 on each floor, killed 4th floor madamme (since we got rampart first shot) then...
no 5th floor madamme, def made it in under 15 mins per floor

(this is south btw)

[divisortheory]

Do you remember your times for each floor? For some reason this 15 15 15 15 method just "feels" right, so I wanna see further confirmation.

[Slott]

14:30, 13, 12:00 14:00 ish.

[divisortheory]

14:30 is pretty close. Could it have been off a little? When did you start the clock? There's also the time from when you actually choose to use the portal until the time you actually arrive at the next floor, which is probably a good 5-10 seconds.