Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[Wizerd]

The standard mob template is annoying and useless, especially for mobs with Vana'diel counterparts where it's just crammed in there. For example, the Bhoot and Psycheflayer NMs.

Propose on one of the talk pages, or on the salvage category talk page that they be changed then. Discussing wiki changes on BG = fail

Do people even look on the Talk pages though? I think I put something on one of those before but got no response, I don't even remember where though anymore.

[divisortheory]

A lot of people patrol the recent changes and would participate in a discussion like that even if they didn't know anything about salvage. Other people (like me) have a watchlist for each of the salvage zones so I can see whenever anything related to salvage changes. On second thought, it might be better to put it either on the salvage category page, that way you get recent change patrollers, as well as people who put salvage pages on their watchlist (i certainly don't put every single piece of equipment and enemy on my watchlist, just the main stuff.

[Nikko]

Do people even look on the Talk pages though? I think I put something on one of those before but got no response, I don't even remember where though anymore.

You proposed a change in route difficulty now that zhayolm 15s were found.

[Zilong]

Do people even look on the Talk pages though? I think I put something on one of those before but got no response, I don't even remember where though anymore.

You proposed a change in route difficulty now that zhayolm 15s were found.

Do these people that make the route difficulty even do salvage?

None of the zone have any distinct difficulty difference in spawning and/or killing safe for a very few specific mobs (CC and Bhaflau's 4th) if you disregard 35 Zhayolm, even then that's not an actual difficulty, rather it's the unknown factor creating the illusion of difficulty (kinda like how people thought LAC was insanely hard because of brainjack spam, and the only successful attempt at the time uses zombie zerg with RNGs)

Beyond that, the overall difference in difficulty is practically nonexistent, since you can do basically any boss with same amount of people, and kill any NM with the same amount of people.

The only thing "difficult" is actually getting the fucking thing to drop.

[divisortheory]

Do these people that make the route difficulty even do salvage?

I made them.

[mhmmimafreak]

I was in the group that popped 5FS 2 runs in a row and never did we kill any marid from rampart we always slept them.Wwe did however kill multiple ramparts each time only because it wasnt clear at the time yet which opened port.

The only specific things we did on purpose in the 2 runs were didnt kill mamools on 1st floor and we ported to 5FS at roughly 51:15.Seeing as the time theory has basically been disproven to be exactly 51ish and not killin the mamools on 1st dont seem to affect it.The only thing i can think of is it has to do with those 4 ramparts.I know on both runs we killed 2 ramparts before port was up and im pretty sure both times it was 1 and 2 ramparts which is interesting cause say 2 was one to open port then 1 would be the rampart with elemental days weak/strong to the right one? iono tbh i think its all pretty crazy and SE did it on purpose ala AV "Lets make one zone rly hard to figure out with crazy pop conditions!" /em high five's SE.

lol dont get me wrong i still love SE and what they have done with salvage though so no real complaints here.

[Zilong]

Do these people that make the route difficulty even do salvage?

I made them.

So, do you mind explaining why getting 25 to drop from LAC and BC is any harder than LBC?

Or getting the 15s to drop from Arra is any harder than SS?

Or hell, getting 35s to drop from Bhaflau is harder than Arrapago or SS now?

Seriously, LBC is by far the harder Chariot compared to the other 3, unless you weaken him, even then that's 10-15 extra minutes you have to spend on doing that.

Any boss run to Arra will net you about...I don't know, enough 15s for most of the group.

And Bhaflau is by far easier to initiate the spawn condition for 35 save for the 4f Rampart, compared to say...spawning Powderkeg Yanadhan, GG, GGs, CC, since those 4 requires way more effort than killing mad bomber, killing 4 flans on spike mode, or yin-yanging 2 triple.

Getting 35 is a bitch in general, there is no clear difference in difficulty, because all of them are equally as easy, and just as equally as bullshit to get drop from.

[divisortheory]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Category_t ... fficulties

Having done quite a bit of Salvage, I think the difficulty ratings are fairly accurate. They take into account not one but all 3 areas involved in the route, what has to be done in each area on the route, as well as how much information is available on the route.

For example, in route 4 you have to not only defeat the boss of the most difficult zone, but you also have to get Lv. 35 equipment from NMs which people don't even fully understand how to pop.

Note: obviously Arrapago isn't the hardest zone anymore, but it was at the time. And people have still never gotten a single Lv. 35 anywhere in Zhayolm. So yes, that's still the hardest.

For route 3, the Lv. 15 equipment comes from NMs which people also don't know how to pop, the Lv. 35s come from NMs which people either don't quite understand how to pop (3rd floor rampart), have terrible and sporadic conditions (getting the HQ spawn from the rampart, THEN getting the drop), and often you have a 0% chance of even getting to the rampart anyway (Mad Bomber, causing the Archaic Gear to warp on 4F).

Note: 3rd floor is finally understood now, and Lv. 15s in Zhayolm are also understood now. But clearly they weren't at the time, all of these are recent discoveries.

For route 2, you have to deal with the Zhayolm Remnants boss, who actually turns out to not be that difficult, but getting to him with enough time is fairly tough and requires some experience. Likewise with the Lv. 35 NMs in Silver Sea Remnants, and you could even say the same for Arrapago Remnants just because the zone itself is hard (although the Lv. 15 drops are easy to get). Essentially, route 2 consists of 3 zones of medium difficulty.

Still accurate

For route 1, the Bhaflau Remnants boss is a pushover both in terms of getting to him with enough time, and defeating him. Silver Sea Remnants Lv. 15 farming is a breeze, all the NMs are 100% drop and 100% pop. Farming Arrapago Remnants for the Lv. 35s is the hardest part clearly, but it's certainly no harder than farming Arrapago Remnants for route 2 and route 4, and definitely easier than dealing with Zhayolm Remnants pop conditions, defeating the Silver Sea Remnants boss, and dealing with Bhaflau Remnants Rampart NMs.

Still mostly true IMO.

[Sagacious Sundi]

To be fair, I don't think Zhayolm's route should even be included. (I base the name of the route on the 35 dropper, but I really think we should base it on the bosses because they require more skill, whereas 35's rely mostly on luck and competence.)
Divide the difficulty into difficulty (based mostly on the strength of the boss) and "rarity" (based mostly on NMs).

[Zilong]

For route 1, the Bhaflau Remnants boss is a pushover both in terms of getting to him with enough time, and defeating him. Silver Sea Remnants Lv. 15 farming is a breeze, all the NMs are 100% drop and 100% pop. Farming Arrapago Remnants for the Lv. 35s is the hardest part clearly, but it's certainly no harder than farming Arrapago Remnants for route 2 and route 4, and definitely easier than dealing with Zhayolm Remnants pop conditions, defeating the Silver Sea Remnants boss, and dealing with Bhaflau Remnants Rampart NMs.

You can pretty much skip all NM for SS and Arra and end up in the boss room with an hour to spare.

Really, LBC allows for 1 rampart and LBC itself and usually you end up with 10-15 min to spare, which really isn't enough for popping another rampart fully since ramparts have ~20 minutes lifespan if you don't damage it by accident or on purpose, but probably more than enough time to weaken LBC. The fact that you can only do 1 rampart create an illusion that LBC have a lot of spare time.

In retrospect, LAC can be done by doing 2 NM before getting to him, BC can be done with like...I don't know, 1-2 NM if you get the spawn condition right, and AC can be done by doing all 6 NM on that particular route before finally getting to him (granted you will need good temp meds and/or experienced party to pull it off with low number)

If you wanna treat all other boss run like an LBC run (1 35 NM or less then straight to boss) I'm sure any experienced group will finish most of the zone with 20+ minutes to spare. All the chariots are fucking pushovers with experience. AC just require you to be decent at stunning and standing on the right place, LAC requires you to be able to...uhh...run, bind and grav for like 30-40 seconds period, while AC just need you to have lolshadows. None of them are nearly as hard as an unweakened LBC.

I'd argue Arrapago 15 are by far easier than SS, but it doesn't fucking matter since any 15 piece is a fucking joke

So that leaves 35 pieces, which are equally as easy/hard to farm and equally as bitchy to get one to drop.

[divisortheory]

I'm not sure why you're screaming and cussing at me.

[Zilong]

I'm not sure why you're screaming and cussing at me.

The whole "difficulty level" is retarded when everything is equally as easy to kill and annoying to get the drops you want.

[Julian]

I'm not sure why you're screaming and cussing at me.

The whole "difficulty level" is retarded when everything is equally as easy to kill and annoying to get the drops you want.

Go back in time to the 5 months ago (or however long) when that thing was written, then talk.

[divisortheory]

I'm not sure why you're screaming and cussing at me.

The whole "difficulty level" is retarded when everything is equally as easy to kill and annoying to get the drops you want.

If you think Zhayolm 35s are "equally easy" to get than other area 35s, you have serious issues.

[divisortheory]

Killed all 4 ramparts on 4F south tonight to test that theory. It was lightsday when we entered, which would have been fourth rampart. So we did first > second > third > fourth, then ported. No madame.

[Almalexia]

4F South
Entered remnants on Windsday, killed ramparts on Iceday:
First > Second > Third > Fourth

No Madame.

[Zilong]

I'm not sure why you're screaming and cussing at me.

The whole "difficulty level" is retarded when everything is equally as easy to kill and annoying to get the drops you want.

If you think Zhayolm 35s are "equally easy" to get than other area 35s, you have serious issues.

Lack of knowledge does not reflect on actual difficulty.

Go back in time to the 5 months ago (or however long) when that thing was written, then talk.

so why is a 5 month old info should be a guidelines for anything?

[Julian]

Same reason those old maps are still there, no one has given a fuck to bother to update it.

[Wizerd]

Same reason those old maps are still there, no one has given a fuck to bother to update it.

I've posted a couple new arrapago maps, and I have 1F-5F finished, 6F would be trivial, but I don't know how to change them on the wiki so I can't.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Upload them by going to "Upload file" in the toolbox (underneath search). Then replace the current maps with [[Image:<Destination filename>]].