Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[Julian]

Same reason those old maps are still there, no one has given a fuck to bother to update it.

I've posted a couple new arrapago maps, and I have 1F-5F finished, 6F would be trivial, but I don't know how to change them on the wiki so I can't.

Yeah I've seen your Arrapago maps, they're nice, but I was referring to Zhayolm lol

[Francisco II]

Regarding the 4N Poroggo NM:

1) Can Providence be dispeled?

2) What are our chances at a clean pull?

3) How hard does it hit, and how much does -ga III do?

4) What is the range/duration of charmga?

[Tulun]

Not sure at duration, but it's range seems to be freaking huge. at least 20...

[divisortheory]

2) What are our chances at a clean pull?

Pulling is hard for multiple reasons. The main reason pulling is hard is that if you shoot the Madame (even with just ranged attack), it seems to get an enormous amount of hate on you. So a simple chi blast, Dia, etc won't pull it off. If someone has voke, use that on the Madame to get it off you. Otherwise body pulling might do the trick. The other problme with pulling is that there really isn't anywhere to go. You can run around in the big room while someone gets the Madame, but then you'll die and won't be able to reraise. You can run back up the hallway but then some of the gents will de-aggro in front of the pack, then re-link with the Madame and have hate on the person who pulled them off you. So it's a bit of cat-and-mouse while the sacer keeps reaggroing gents and training them away. Eventually what I usually do is get everything all the way back to the rectangular room, then run back up the hallway and soon as I get to the last Gent I hit Hide.

[Julian]

When we did 4N I sac ranned the frogs toward the mamool room, and alliance had no problem grabbing Madame and taking it toward the teleporter room. <.<;

[Wizerd]

2) What are our chances at a clean pull?

Pulling is hard for multiple reasons. The main reason pulling is hard is that if you shoot the Madame (even with just ranged attack), it seems to get an enormous amount of hate on you. So a simple chi blast, Dia, etc won't pull it off. If someone has voke, use that on the Madame to get it off you. Otherwise body pulling might do the trick. The other problme with pulling is that there really isn't anywhere to go. You can run around in the big room while someone gets the Madame, but then you'll die and won't be able to reraise. You can run back up the hallway but then some of the gents will de-aggro in front of the pack, then re-link with the Madame and have hate on the person who pulled them off you. So it's a bit of cat-and-mouse while the sacer keeps reaggroing gents and training them away. Eventually what I usually do is get everything all the way back to the rectangular room, then run back up the hallway and soon as I get to the last Gent I hit Hide.

Eh? It's really not that hard. I haven't noticed the big hate thing either, that you're describing, but I don't shoot the madame.

What I do is shoot a poroggo gent that's close to the NM, and I have the person ready to pull the poroggo off me pretty much right beside me. As soon as all that are going to link, do link, that person attracts the poroggo, and then runs to the group. Since there is no one to cast spells on, the NM will go straight to the group in the teleporter room, whereas the Poroggo gents will barely be halfway up the hallway just staring at me until they cast their next spell. I inch forward whenever a big spell is coming that I can't blink. I forget if they cast Sleepga but if they do, they cast DOTs often enough to counter it. Then I just Hide and go help them out.

[Lyramion]

When we did 4N I sac ranned the frogs toward the mamool room, and alliance had no problem grabbing Madame and taking it toward the teleporter room. <.<;

I was there and my WHM Flash the Madame :D

[divisortheory]

This blog has a ton of info about the 5th floor Madame. It seems they've popped it multiple times, and possibly they've even completed Marduk Head? I can't tell.

First Entry: http://nyankonyanko.x0.com/log/eid539.html
Second Entry: http://nyankonyanko.x0.com/log/eid544.html
Third Entry: http://nyankonyanko.x0.com/log/eid555.html
Fourth Entry: http://nyankonyanko.x0.com/log/eid565.html
Fifth Entry: http://nyankonyanko.x0.com/log/eid567.html

If anyone wants to translate, read the comments also because they seem to contain some good info. One of them looks like it says that one time that Madame wasn't up when they arrived at the 5th floor but it was after they opened the door by the chariot? That certainly seems weird as hell. For the most part I don't know what the blog is talking about, I just found it a minute ago and haven't looked closely at any of the entries.

[aurik]

FWIW we found out today you can't pop both the south and north madames on 3F. Went south first and got screwed on HP cells so we ended up killing the madame. Then, cleared the entire north and the Madame did not pop. Scoured the area for 5 minutes while a runner went back to the South, no we did not miss any Mamools--everything on the floor was dead.

Despite killing everything on the 3f, most of the crap on the 2f, and a bunch of stuff on 1f no madame was up on 5f. Ended up just scooting to the chariot and killing it for tsuki hd/bd.

[Almalexia]

(I had Jishan and Fobschoolboy of Sylph translate the information from those JP blogs. Most of the entries were just stuff they tried. Unsuccessful stuff. This information refers to the run where they succeeded in popping a Madame)

hmm, okay, so they popped the 5th floor south Madame, and they are supposing one or more of the following conditions are necessary:

A. Spend more than 15 minutes on each floor.
B. Kill the same amount of mobs every floor.
C. Pop the 3rd floor south Madame, but DO NOT kill her.
D. Kill every frog on 4th floor.
E. Don't kill any Mamools on the 4th floor.

Their successful run involved avoiding Mamool and Poroggo first floor, clearing NE room and half of the other 3 rooms on the second floor, clearing the entire west and south wing on the 3rd floor (they did not touch the east/north half of the map) but didn't have time to kill the Poroggo Madame that popped, killed every gent on the fourth floor but did not touch any Mamools. They defeated the Third Rampart to go up.

On the fifth floor, no Madame was up. They claim to have killed the three inactive ramparts in the end room, and upon opening the portal gates the Poroggo Madame spawned inside the rampart room.

~~~
So we have some conflicting information here. For one, we know that it's possible to pop 5F S at 51 minutes into the run. Condition A can be throw out. Also, the screenshots we have of the 5F S Madame show all 3 ramparts alive, so killing the ramparts is not necessary to pop the Madame. Furthermore, opening the portal doors is unnecessary(?) since the 5F S Madame was allegedly up when Divisor's group, correct me if I'm wrong, arrived to the fifth floor.

As for the other conditions, B sounds dubious, but what about C, D and E? Can anyone with 5th floor Madame experience recall how they handled gents and mamools?

[Julian]

Thinking about the door thing.... maybe (this doesn't sound too bsed, and I could see it working maybe) there are numerous conditions to make it pop, and it pops once a certain number of conditions have been met?

It could be that dt's group had already completed enough of these conditions so it was up upon warping, and for your group that # of conditions wasn't met until the door was opened (which itself we could confirm as one of the conditions, if this theory holds any ground)

It's doubtful that this is the case, but in the slight chance that it might be, I just wanted to point out the possibility so we're not stuck here trying to pin-point one single condition.

[Aemora]

Maybe the pop condition is opening so many doors.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool!

Let's see, you can open 4 on the first floor, 4 on the second, 2 on the third, 1 on the Fourth and 1 on the Fifth. Totalling 12 doors. Groups that managed to get it to pop managed to open 1 door on first floor, all 4 on Second, probably one on third and one on Fourth. =7?

Six? Six doors would be more round, but lolTheories.

Doors would be such an overlooked spawning condition. I would lol hard it if it was that.

[Julian]

Doors pop NMs in Arrapago, why would a few doors be considered silly? (And I only mentioned the 5th floor door being a condition)

[Sagacious Sundi]

This blog has a ton of info about the 5th floor Madame. It seems they've popped it multiple times, and possibly they've even completed Marduk Head? I can't tell.

First Entry: http://nyankonyanko.x0.com/log/eid539.html
Second Entry: http://nyankonyanko.x0.com/log/eid544.html
Third Entry: http://nyankonyanko.x0.com/log/eid555.html
Fourth Entry: http://nyankonyanko.x0.com/log/eid565.html
Fifth Entry: http://nyankonyanko.x0.com/log/eid567.html

If anyone wants to translate, read the comments also because they seem to contain some good info. One of them looks like it says that one time that Madame wasn't up when they arrived at the 5th floor but it was after they opened the door by the chariot? That certainly seems weird as hell. For the most part I don't know what the blog is talking about, I just found it a minute ago and haven't looked closely at any of the entries.

Are they talking about north, south, or both? If they're talking about north, that could explain the conflict between being up and spawning when the door opens. That would make a nice pattern where every floor the spawn conditions for the 2 madames gets further apart to the point where there is only 1:

Third floor: Identical conditions
Fourth floor: Similar conditions
Fifth floor: Different conditions
Sixth floor: Single madame

Also, should FFXIclopedia mention the reports of 4F south being up at 37 and 47 minutes?

[divisortheory]

I was pretty sure that at least one of those entries (one of the ones from june) mentioned that it wasn't up when they ported, but was up after they did more stuff on the 5th floor.

[mhmmimafreak]

With the 2 times we popped 5FS we never spent more then 15 mins on all floors.No way did we kill exact same number of mobs on every floor.We kill alot on 3rd floor compared to minimul on first.Ive never in all my zhalom runs killed a single Gent whether it be any floor.Ive always killed at minimum the Zenist on 4th floor for the 3 HP cell drop.Also never have we popped any 3rd floor madame north or south.So iono bout those theorys.

This door theory seems damn interesting though needs more testing.

Edit: Also when we did pop 5FS it was up when we ported up and refering to an earlier post i dont think it depops cause first time it was up we had a lil mishap with gears and our group and wiped lawl so had to regroup and it never disappeared.

[mhmmimafreak]

Maybe the pop condition is opening so many doors.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool!

Let's see, you can open 4 on the first floor, 4 on the second, 2 on the third, 1 on the Fourth and 1 on the Fifth. Totalling 12 doors. Groups that managed to get it to pop managed to open 1 door on first floor, all 4 on Second, probably one on third and one on Fourth. =7?

Six? Six doors would be more round, but lolTheories.

Doors would be such an overlooked spawning condition. I would lol hard it if it was that.

Hmm you cant open 4 on first floor can only open 2 and 2 only.One right as you zone in and one to open port room which locks other 3 no?

As for the 2nd floor opening the first door after mamool kill opens all doors so i guess could be seen as opening 4 doors but rly only 1 with no other doors.

Third floor only doors are port room doors so can only open 1?

Fourth floor same as third floor only port room doors can open only 1.

Seems to me you dont got any choice to open a certain amount of doors but maybe im missiing something obvious here which could be the case.

[divisortheory]

Maybe the pop condition is opening so many doors.

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool!

Let's see, you can open 4 on the first floor, 4 on the second, 2 on the third, 1 on the Fourth and 1 on the Fifth. Totalling 12 doors. Groups that managed to get it to pop managed to open 1 door on first floor, all 4 on Second, probably one on third and one on Fourth. =7?

Six? Six doors would be more round, but lolTheories.

Doors would be such an overlooked spawning condition. I would lol hard it if it was that.

If it's anything like arrapago, you can only open 1 door on the first floor, the 2nd floor doors automatically all open when you clear the room, and 1 door on third floor.

[Aemora]

Welp, I am just throwing a lolIdea around. Under no circumstance do I have any proof whatsoever that it may be the doors.

Like the second floor Mamool which once dead unlocks the other quarters, killing the Poroggo at the end of the first floor may allow you to open the other doors. Who knows?

floor 1:
puk 4
rap 4
bugard 4
bugard 4
cockatrice 4
cockatrice 4
mamool
cockatrice 4
cockatrice 1
20:30 sec time

floor 2:
lizard x8 mamool
wyvern x5
card NM
wyvern x4
lizard x7
20:30

floor 3:
enter at 41:00
24 mamool, 7 dragoon pet, 7 lizard pet
1 door
20:30 again

floor 4:
enter at 61:30
4 mamool + 1 dragoon pet + 1 lizard pet
all 8 frogs
all 4 doors + 1 marid
20:30 again

floor 5:
enter at 82:00
frog is up
(no drop)

Floor1: 2 Doors
Floor2: 4 Doors
Floor3: 1 Door
Floor4: 1 Door
Total: 8 Doors

Was about 20 mins in when we ported up off the first floor.
On the 2nd floor we killed the entire NE room, and 4 mobs from the other rooms.
Donno when we ported up to 3rd.
on 3rd floor we killed 12 mamool.
Ported up to the fourth floor south at 47 mins, the madame was not up, as expected.
We killed the correct rampart, one marid, 2 frogs (which btw only dropped 3 earrings from one, 0 cells from the other) and no mamools.

Ported up to the 5th floor south at 59 mins, the madame was up.
Didnt kill it cause we wanted to do the boss.

Floor1: 2 Doors
Floor2: 4 Doors
Floor3: 1 Door
Floor4: 1 Door
Total: 8 Doors

Their successful run involved avoiding Mamool and Poroggo first floor, clearing NE room and half of the other 3 rooms on the second floor, clearing the entire west and south wing on the 3rd floor (they did not touch the east/north half of the map) but didn't have time to kill the Poroggo Madame that popped, killed every gent on the fourth floor but did not touch any Mamools. They defeated the Third Rampart to go up.

Floor1: 2 Doors
Floor2: 4 Doors
Floor3: 1 Door
Floor4: 1 Door
Total: 8 Doors

So anyway, anyone seeing a pattern here?

AGAIN! Shot in the dark.

Edit: We know it's not the Marid. We know it's not the amount of mobs killed. We know it has nothing to do with timing. We know that it has nothing to do with popping another Madame on a different floor. We know it has nothing to do with the Ramparts on the previous floor. We know it has nothing to do with avoiding killing the Mamools. We know it has nothing to do with skipping certain mobs (Each run done shows that they have taken different paths to get it to pop, killing different Mobs that the other group didn't kill, or kill as many). We know that it can pop after opening a door. And we know that the three times the people I quoted did it, they opened exactly 8 doors to find the Madame up on 5th South. And it cannot be random, because nothing in Salvage is random. The players are allowed to decide which way they want to go and what gear they want a chance at getting. We know that the JPs have gotten Macha's Pigaches from somewhere... Where?

Edit #2: And furthermore, there are another 2 doors on the Fifth floor. The one to the Teleporter, and the one to the Rampart/Madame room. That totals 10. Perhaps opening the door to the Madame pops it, or the door to the Porter that can make Door #8. This would indicate that people would have to at least kill the Mamool on the second floor (Which all groups did), and open the doors (Which can be done without necessarily fighting any of the mobs behind the doors).

AND ITS A SHOT IN THE DARK! Don't shoot me down, yo~

[aurik]

Can you even get to floor 5 without opening 8 doors?