Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[Aemora]

Did an epic LAC last night instead :<

Oh the joy we got when we read "You find a praecipitatio cell on the Garm."

Alas, Ares Feet, if following the pattern for the REST of Salvage and all areas within, would suggest that 4th Floor South Madame drops Ares Feet AND Morrigan's Feet!

I'm gonna say that 5th North and South drop 2 each... North dropping the Body because that seems like the complicated one to pop atm <.<! There are your frickin' Usukane Hands!

[Sagacious Sundi]

<_< There's a whole bunch of ways they can tie in the whole Ares + Morrigan relationship:

1A. They're both 5F NMs.
1B. They're both 5FN or 5FS NMs. Example: 5F south chariot drops Ares feet and 5F south madame drops Morrigan feet.
1C. They're both "opposites". Example: 5F north madame drops Ares feet and 5F south madame drops Morrigan feet.
2. They're both southern NMs. Example: 4F south madame drops Ares feet and 5F south madame drops Morrigan feet.
3. They have similar pop conditions.

Yeah yeah, guessing drops with 0 confirmed, but I'm starting see the possibility of 4FS: Feet, 5FS: Other feet, chariot Marduk head/Usukane/Skadi, and 5FN: Marduk body.

[Francisco II]

Something occurred to me:

On a specific Zhayolm run, we did managed to pop the 4S Poroggo NM. We killed 3 Mamool Ja on Floor 1 (I'm pretty sure of that), one on Floor 2 and 12 on Floor 3 - for a total of 16. 4S Poroggo NM was up.

The obvious pattern I see here is 4² = 16.

What's more is, if you follow the south path there is a maximum of...

Floor 1: 4 Mamool Ja
Floor 2: 4 Mamool Ja
Floor 3: 12 Mamool Ja
Floor 4: 4 Mamool Ja
Total: 36 Mamool Ja...

And again, 6² = 36... clearing them all could be the pop condition for the 6th Floor Poroggo.

Following that standard, killing 25 Mamool Ja (5²) would be the pop condition for 5S, and that would support the multiple of five theory.

Of course, this means you would only be able to get one of the Poroggo NMs per run ... unless 2(4²) = 32 can work for Floor 4... the "pick one" idea doesn't seem so far-fetched for Zhayolm, considering the Lv. 15 NMs basically follow the same rule (I don't think you could possibly clear Floor 3N and kill the NM in under 30 minutes).

[divisortheory]

Something occurred to me:

On a specific Zhayolm run, we did managed to pop the 4S Poroggo NM. We killed 3 Mamool Ja on Floor 1 (I'm pretty sure of that), one on Floor 2 and 12 on Floor 3 - for a total of 16. 4S Poroggo NM was up.

The obvious pattern I see here is 4² = 16.

What's more is, if you follow the south path there is a maximum of...

Floor 1: 4 Mamool Ja
Floor 2: 4 Mamool Ja
Floor 3: 12 Mamool Ja
Floor 4: 4 Mamool Ja
Total: 36 Mamool Ja...

And again, 6² = 36... clearing them all could be the pop condition for the 6th Floor Poroggo.

Following that standard, killing 25 Mamool Ja (5²) would be the pop condition for 5S, and that would support the multiple of five theory.

Of course, this means you would only be able to get one of the Poroggo NMs per run ... unless 2(4²) = 32 can work for Floor 4... the "pick one" idea doesn't seem so far-fetched for Zhayolm, considering the Lv. 15 NMs basically follow the same rule (I don't think you could possibly clear Floor 3N and kill the NM in under 30 minutes).

Err, it's been popped with 25, 30, and 35.

[divisortheory]

Well, not to confuse people even more, but the person who is saying they got Deimos's Leggings said it appeared instead of Anu's Brais from the lv. 15 NM.

[Wizerd]

Well, not to confuse people even more, but the person who is saying they got Deimos's Leggings said it appeared instead of Anu's Brais from the lv. 15 NM.

I still think he was confused about which path he was on. Someone else would have found it by now if it were just lottery between lv35 and lv15.

[divisortheory]

Possibly. Air called POIDH on the post lol, so we'll see if SSs get posted.

[Arthars]

i guess we have to do from stretch again >.>

the JP did 30 mamools and 12786378126 mobs

since people kill exactly same mob and number from the JP blog pops it

either we:

1. redo their pattern to see if it pop AGAIN

2. just kill 30 mamool ja since they killed 30 anyway

i'll try kill the exact 30 mamool ja the JP kills, this wednesday

We know it's not "Exactly 30 mamool ja" because the "Group 2" I outlined didn't nearly that many, maybe half. I still agree with the 5 Mamool Ja theory, but I think it has to be more than 5, probably more than 10. 15+.

yea i just saying i will go test if mamools r really the trigger since the JP popped with the 30 of them..... and people tested 5 15 25 etc no pop (unless they freaking mis count)

best to retap the JP source since its reported follow exact pattern will pop the NM

i'm just working on their mamool and see if mamool really play the part

[Forbidden16]

People have actually failed to pop it by killing 15 or 25 mamools? Don't count the first run I did last night because there's some doubts about the count on third floor kills, at least 5 is 100% proven to not work. Here's a list of what we killed mob by mob anyway from my friend:

1st Floor:
Puks - 5
Ziz- 10
Bugards - 6
Raptors - 6
Mamool - 4


2nd Floor:
Lizard - 13
Mamool - 1


3rd Floor:
Mamool - 7 (I listed 4 Zenist and the 3 other Mamool type) so that is correct

4th Floor:
Mamool - 3 (didn't write down there title but again Mamool x3 confirmed)

Total = 15 Mamools.

[divisortheory]

So.. Are you saying it did or did not pop for you with that enemy count?

[Forbidden16]

It did not. But 2 members of the party including me just counted 6 on third floor kills when reviewing and has created the doubt that we didn't kill 15 mamools really, plus the 3 possible things that I posted a few posts above that could've messed it.

Yea, we have a confusion between the total of mamools. Two of us count a total of 14, counter had 15. Another thing, not sure if it would matter but on 4th floor when trying to make it to the #15 count we aggro'd an extra mamool and had to sleep it several times then we warped after killing rampart.

Possible things that could have made it not pop:

A) We killed a total of 14 mobs.
B) We killed 15 mobs but 3 of them included Mamools from the 3rd floor East/North path.
C) We aggro'd and used enfeebling magic (didn't damage) on Mamool #16.


We're going in again and only killing 5 mamools, will have results soon hopefully.

I did went again with Wizerd and killed 5 mamools, it wasn't up.

[Wizerd]

In case anyone's curious, our kill record for the 5 MMJ run was:

1F
---
3x Puk in first room (2 droppers, 1 not)

2F
---
3x Lizard in NE room (3 droppers)

3F
---
4x DRG Mamool Ja, and their pets
1x BST Mamool Ja, and its pet

4F
---
Fourth Rampart, and we tried to kill Poroggo Madame but gave up

[bzs]

Hello
I have a question about the 3F NM
Do you only need to kill the mobs in the rectangle room or you need to kill ALL mamools from start point to rectangle room in the north?
Also with the recent update, do they drop cells now or they drop nothing? Should we farm the 3 rooms to the west for cells then move to the north to kill and spawn the madame?

any help is appreicated

[mdkuser]

You need to clear the small rooms and the big rectangular, as well as the rampart, to pop the frog; What we do usually is clear the small rooms south for a few HP/MP then proceed to clear north wing. We kill the rampart before killing the last mamoolja or the frog might pop on top of us, this can be annoying. This Nm was time consuming before pacth, we haven't done it since, i'm guessing it's a lot faster now. And if I recall the drop is a lv 15 piece 100% of the time so we won't bother unless someone has the 25 or/and 35. And yes, those mamoolja still dont drop anything so don't bother unless u need the lv15.

[divisortheory]

Maybe we're getting off track a little. Let's see if we can reproduce Suiram's and the JP's 114 mob run a few times. If that pops it consistently 3 or 4 times, then we can start changing stuff around. Although unlikely, it's still possible it's just totally random and Suiram got lucky and all this 5 business doesn't mean anything. So we should try to find SOME consistent method of popping it, then make MINOR adjustments to the route until we can determine more precisely what it was. I'll do the 114 run verbatim today or tomorrow, if someone else can do it tonight or tomorrow also it would be great.

[divisortheory]

Here is a report of a JP group that killed 20 Mamools and did not get a pop:

http://sarumemo.blog114.fc2.com/blog-entry-47.html

Summary:

First Floor
3 Puk
7 Ziz
3 Raptors
2 Bugards
1 Zenist

Second Floor
8 Lizard
8 Wyvern
1 Savant
1 Bounder

Third Floor
4 Lizard Pet
4 Wyvern Pet
4 Zenist
4 Strapper
1 Bounder
4 Sophist

Fourth Floor
5 Gents
1 Madame
1 Rampart
1 Zenist
1 Sophist
1 Strapper
1 Bounder


Totals:
3 Puk
7 Ziz
3 Raptors
2 Bugards
1 Rampart
4 Lizard Pet
8 Lizard
8 Wyvern
5 Gent
1 Madame
6 Zenist
1 Savant
5 Strapper
5 Sophist
3 Bounder

= 20 Mamool

[Aemora]

/doortheory.


Ahem...

kbaq2werq

[divisortheory]

What I find strange about that run is that they arrived at 4th floor South at 47:10 and the Madame was up.

Maybe everything we know about this zone is wrong. The zone seems to have a lot of organization with regards to mamools though.

1st Floor: 4 Mamool - 4 Zenist
2nd Floor: 4 Mamool - 1 Zenist, 1 Spearman, 1 Savant, 1 Bounder
3rd Floor (South): 24 Mamool - 4, 4, 4, 12
3rd Floor (North): 32 Mamool - 4, 4, 4, 20
4th Floor (South): 4 Mamool
4th Floor (North v1): 6 Mamool
4th Floor (North v2): 6 Mamool

Notice that going south, 1st+2nd+3rd(S)+4th = 4+4+24+4 = 6^2 Mamool

Maybe 5th floor is 25, 30, 35 and 6th floor is 36

I don't know if any of this means anything, but it seems too well-laid out and organized for it to be irrelevant.

[Sagacious Sundi]

It's worth noting that for all of the floors, the total is a multiple of 4 (if you add the 4F doubles with the originals).
EDIT: Both floors with gents also has them in a multiple of 4. But then again, tons of things are in multiples of 4.

[Kaylia]

4F
Poroggo:
Run 1 (8), Run 2 (2), Run 3 (8)

That part might have played a role in the pop as well