Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[Aemora]

Perhaps isn't not so random after all. Floors one and two have both been identified to having mobs drop gear in the order they appear on the Widescan list; perhaps this is true of third floor as well. But wouldn't just killing everything south of the border on the third floor make it so that you pop the madame anyway?

[divisortheory]

First floor we skipped 3 bugards (second bugard room), and 9 ziz (second, third, and 1 from fourth ziz room).

Second floor we skipped 3-4 wyverns from NW, 3-4 wyverns from SW, 4-5 lizards from SE, and the card NM.

Edit: Got a list of mobs we killed.

First floor - All four inner rooms killed 4/4. Killed Mamool in bugard wing, and 1 extra bugard from next room. Warped NE.

Second floor:
NE - 8 lizard + 1 mammol
NW - 1 wyvern
SW - 1 wyvern
SE - 3 lizards

Third floor: Identical to first run
Fourth floor: popped 3 marids but killed 0. on successful we popped 1 marid and killed 1.

[Suiram]

So wait, when you did your 114 mob copy run that popped the madame, did you do

floor 1:
puk 4
rap 4
bugard 4
bugard 4
cockatrice 4
cockatrice 4
mamool
cockatrice 4
cockatrice 1

or did you do

floor 1:
puk 4
rap 4
bugard 4
bugard 4
rap 4
cockatrice 4
mamool
cockatrice 4
cockatrice 1

We did the latter, for what it's worth.

[divisortheory]

Neither. We did

puk4
cock4
rap4
bugard4
mamool1
bugard4
cock4
cock4
cock1

Basically killed shit in the order we ran into it.


A friend of mine suggested that maybe you have to kill a decreasing number of enemies on each floor. Sounds a little far-fetched, but it does fit with the 114 run for what it's worth.

[Suiram]

I meant did you do 8 raptors, 9 cockatrice, or 4 raptor, 13 cockatrice.

[divisortheory]

oh. 4 raptor, 13 cockatrice.

[Sady]

Two accounts of successfully reproducing the 114 mob JP run tells me we're on the right track. It's highly unlikely that both groups simple fluked out. Something they did forced it to pop.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and suggest like others have that the pop condition could very well be related to number of mobs killed AND time ported up. As 3F is poped simply by killing mobs and 4F is poped by porting up in the right time interval, perhaps 5F is a combination thereof. Unfortunately without the time information for the other accounts it's hard to justify this hypothesis.

As a total guess I'd suggest perhaps you need to have killed at least X mobs upon porting for the first time interval say 50-60 mins (is ~52 minutes elapsed the earliest account of poping 5FS?). Then perhaps X+n for the next interval say 60-70 minutes or some other pattern. Or perhaps you're rate of mobs per unit time must be above some value, say at least 1 mob/minute, somewhat analogous to an exp chain.

[divisortheory]

Two accounts of successfully reproducing the 114 mob JP run tells me we're on the right track. It's highly unlikely that both groups simple fluked out. Something they did forced it to pop.

Forced or made the odds very high. However, since it has been repro'ed 3 times in a row now with this method, it would be great if every shell that posts on these forums could repeat it once. It's rumored to drop Marduk Body anyway, so it's not like you're doing it for nothing.

[Wizerd]

Two accounts of successfully reproducing the 114 mob JP run tells me we're on the right track. It's highly unlikely that both groups simple fluked out. Something they did forced it to pop.

Forced or made the odds very high. However, since it has been repro'ed 3 times in a row now with this method, it would be great if every shell that posts on these forums could repeat it once. It's rumored to drop Marduk Body anyway, so it's not like you're doing it for nothing.

I want someone to reproduce the run again but WITH killing the 4F Madame. I'm not sure it's possible, based on the number of mobs that need to be killed, to even pop the 4F Madame this way, but there IS a way to pop the 5F while popping the 4F, because at least one of the accounts I summarized had popped it but not killed it (I think...right?).

[divisortheory]

Two accounts of successfully reproducing the 114 mob JP run tells me we're on the right track. It's highly unlikely that both groups simple fluked out. Something they did forced it to pop.

Forced or made the odds very high. However, since it has been repro'ed 3 times in a row now with this method, it would be great if every shell that posts on these forums could repeat it once. It's rumored to drop Marduk Body anyway, so it's not like you're doing it for nothing.

I want someone to reproduce the run again but WITH killing the 4F Madame. I'm not sure it's possible, based on the number of mobs that need to be killed, to even pop the 4F Madame this way, but there IS a way to pop the 5F while popping the 4F, because at least one of the accounts I summarized had popped it but not killed it (I think...right?).

Yea, one group popped both in the same run but ignored 4F. I'm sure once people can reproduce it consistently, this will start happening. Start trying to do too much shit at once though, and people will never be able to reproduce it consistently. So for now the most important thing is just to a) see how consistent the 114 mob run is, and b) get it to drop something so that people will spam the shit out of it, thus figuring out the condition faster. I am going to start keeping a database of successful and unsuccessful pops from now on, with detailed accounts of what was killed and what wasn't. You can view it here. I'm not going to put anything on here unless there's complete info about mobs killed and times zoned up, so anyone who wants to add to the data, post the results here.

http://kalia.ultimals.com/Salvage/PoroggoMadame5F.xls

[Sagacious Sundi]

Sorry if I missed it, but the 114 thing has only been done for 5FS madame so far?

[divisortheory]

Sorry if I missed it, but the 114 thing has only been done for 5FS madame so far?

Yea, but considering that 4F N and S Madames are slightly differnet in time requirement, I'm guessing there's subtle differences in 5F N and S also.

[Wizerd]

Sorry if I missed it, but the 114 thing has only been done for 5FS madame so far?

Remember that the North side has reports of the Ramparts and Chariot popping only after killing certain intervals of mobs, and may be a hint towards the North pop conditions. I agree with Divisortheory, knock down one thing before going onto the next. We figured out 3FN, 3FS, 4FN, 4FS, now it's 5FS's turn. Next would be 5FN, and then likely futile attempts at 6F like we still "occasionally" try in Arrapago lol.

[Demos]

I have a little question about socket NM :s
it will drop twice more cell than the same cell traded to pop the NM? and can we trade differents cells (Dupli + Prae + Opa)?
ty ^^

[aurik]

No, only one type at a time. Up to 5 of that type.

[Suiram]

Popping the socket NM in Zhayolm is going to be more trouble than its worth, with the possible exception being if you cleared the room and only got two und. cell or something and you have 2 rng and a brd or 2 brds. Any other cell it's probably going to be just as fast to farm more mobs for the cells if you get frog chorused once by the socket madame, and faster if it choruses multiple times.

[Demos]

thank you for the answer.
cause we try to go for mega, and use to do 20min on first floor, 20 on second, and imo that too much for floor 1, but need sub and magic for all people who come /WHM (around 10people). but if poping madame dont worth the time, I guess we should try to skip more gear @ second floor or going without mélé /WHM.

[Suiram]

Yeah back when we were having time issues for boss in this zone, we tried socket madame a few times and like I said it was more trouble than it was worth. If you have 10 people and running low on time, I recommend just splitting up on the first floor. No mages need JA or Weapons unless you get extra, so just clear the first 4 rooms together and then send half your group to bugards and half your group to ziz (make sure to put your whm with the ziz group). Second floor each room has 2-3 mobs by the door of which one will always drop the 2 cells for that room + chance of body. It's the top one listed in the pack if you have someone with widescan. After clearing NE and opening the doors, we just kill one from each to get our 2 MNKs or MNK + NIN fully geared and then port up. That should take 30-35 min and leave you with plenty of time to get your HP/MP and clear the 6th floor in time for the boss.

[Sady]

I am going to start keeping a database of successful and unsuccessful pops from now on, with detailed accounts of what was killed and what wasn't. You can view it here. I'm not going to put anything on here unless there's complete info about mobs killed and times zoned up, so anyone who wants to add to the data, post the results here.

http://kalia.ultimals.com/Salvage/PoroggoMadame5F.xls

One difference I noticed between the first two "pop" and "no pop" runs is in fact the rate at which mobs are killed. This could also exaplin why no group that has killed 4FS Madame has also poped 5FS, you simply lose pace from spending 5 minutes to kill the NM.

[Kaylia]

Another possibility would be the quantity of room cleared completetly (or set of 4 monsters).
For the 114 kills run
1st floor: 7 rooms were cleared
2nd floor: 1 lizards room
3rd floor: 3 rooms + large room
4th room: frog room + mamool room + rampart room
Total: 15 rooms (12 small, 3 larges one)

Meh, we would have noticed more pop if it was the case, but who knows.




Question about north rampart on 4th floor, can you pull 2 at time? I know the other 3 despawn as you pull, but did anyone ever try fighting 2.