Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[alphacat]

Gonna seriously attempt a boss run tomorrow, here's what I plan, can someone tell me if the route is good:

1F (20m) Get everyone magic, 4 weapons, everyone SJ, 3~4 ability. Port NE
2F (12m) Clear NE wing, port up
3F (10m) Clear 3 rooms to the west
4F (6m) Kill the door
5F (2m) Flee through it
6F (30m)
7F (20m) Boss

A few questions:
1. With only 2 melee, what's the most efficient way of getting cells on 1F? ppl seem to like to split up, but it's obviously not doable with a group of 8.
2. For the boss, should we try to get everyone HP from 3F? Last time we only got 1 HP from the 3 west rooms. I'd assume everyone needs HP so discoid won't 1 shot anyone.
3. Is 30m enough for 6F? Seems like the chariot takes around 10min to kill, so that leaves 20min for the gears + downtime. Is it enough?

Seems like this run is just a lot of time crunch, last time we timed out when the boss was at around 45%, so we're gonna try to cut time here and there this run.

[Acturus]

The socket NM must be the key difference.

Remember this update, way back when?

FINAL FANTASY XI Update (Dec. 21)

At the following time, we have performed a version update of FINAL FANTASY XI.

*This update consists of a version upgrade of the client program (Xbox version will not be updated). When you press the play button after the time stated below, the version upgrade will begin automatically. Please follow the instructions on the screen.


[Affected Period]
Dec. 21, 2006 4:50 (PST)

[Affected Services]
FINAL FANTASY XI

[Important Update Details]
- Measures have been taken to maintain area stability for the congested assault and salvage areas.

The following issues have been addressed:

- When changing areas or logging back into the game after calling an adventuring fellow, the following issues would occur:
1) Adventuring fellow would not cast spells when it was not in combat mode.
2) Remaining time available for the fellow was not counted properly.

- Salvage related issues:
1) Members who were disconnected from the game during a warp to the next floor would not be warped to the destination upon relogging in.
2) Numbers of defeated notorious monsters within the Zhayolm Remnants were not counted properly.
3) Notorious monsters within Bhaflau Remnants would not spawn as expected.
4) Some monsters in Arrapago Remnants would not return to the original positions when they are not in combat mode.

- An issue where results of mining, logging, and harvesting would be displayed before the motion is completed. ("PlayStation 2" and Windows versions only)

- An issue where a forced termination may occur when text is displayed in the chat window. ("PlayStation 2" and Windows versions only)

- An incorrect text, "[target name]" within the command help explanation section.

Why would they care to count the number of NMs defeated, unless something else depended upon it.

Would SE split hairs over the definition of "Notorious Monster"?

Meaning, would they consider anything that checks "Impossible to guage" as a NM?

[Amele]

The socket NM must be the key difference.

Remember this update, way back when?

FINAL FANTASY XI Update (Dec. 21)

At the following time, we have performed a version update of FINAL FANTASY XI.

*This update consists of a version upgrade of the client program (Xbox version will not be updated). When you press the play button after the time stated below, the version upgrade will begin automatically. Please follow the instructions on the screen.


[Affected Period]
Dec. 21, 2006 4:50 (PST)

[Affected Services]
FINAL FANTASY XI

[Important Update Details]
- Measures have been taken to maintain area stability for the congested assault and salvage areas.

The following issues have been addressed:

- When changing areas or logging back into the game after calling an adventuring fellow, the following issues would occur:
1) Adventuring fellow would not cast spells when it was not in combat mode.
2) Remaining time available for the fellow was not counted properly.

- Salvage related issues:
1) Members who were disconnected from the game during a warp to the next floor would not be warped to the destination upon relogging in.
2) Numbers of defeated notorious monsters within the Zhayolm Remnants were not counted properly.
3) Notorious monsters within Bhaflau Remnants would not spawn as expected.
4) Some monsters in Arrapago Remnants would not return to the original positions when they are not in combat mode.

- An issue where results of mining, logging, and harvesting would be displayed before the motion is completed. ("PlayStation 2" and Windows versions only)

- An issue where a forced termination may occur when text is displayed in the chat window. ("PlayStation 2" and Windows versions only)

- An incorrect text, "[target name]" within the command help explanation section.

Why would they care to count the number of NMs defeated, unless something else depended upon it.

Would SE split hairs over the definition of "Notorious Monster"?

Meaning, would they consider anything that checks "Impossible to guage" as a NM?

the plural on numbers leads me to believe that it may in fact be split into more than one group for the purpose of counting? (and could explain how it wasn't counting 'correctly' before)

of course this could be translation issues too. - definitely lends credence to the idea that either 5FN/S or 6F madames are popped via kill counts in some manner though.

[Mord]

Granted there's no way to tell what they mean by NM, but the way they refer to the issues in
arrapago as "some monsters" and for Bhaflau and Z it's "Notorious Monsters" makes me think it was intended. If someone can manage to dig up the Japanese text for this patch it might be clearer, I'm really not sure where to look.

If "NMs" includes (for instance) madames, the socket NM, and even ramparts, then every group has killed a few on their way up.

The only thing that makes me bring this up is that the 114-mob run = pop, and the 114 mob run minus socket NM = no pop, which is a very strange spawn condition unless the problem is that there was one less "NM" killed.

[Neosutra]

Gonna seriously attempt a boss run tomorrow, here's what I plan, can someone tell me if the route is good:

1F (20m) Get everyone magic, 4 weapons, everyone SJ, 3~4 ability. Port NE
2F (12m) Clear NE wing, port up
3F (10m) Clear 3 rooms to the west
4F (6m) Kill the door
5F (2m) Flee through it
6F (30m)
7F (20m) Boss

A few questions:
1. With only 2 melee, what's the most efficient way of getting cells on 1F? ppl seem to like to split up, but it's obviously not doable with a group of 8.
2. For the boss, should we try to get everyone HP from 3F? Last time we only got 1 HP from the 3 west rooms. I'd assume everyone needs HP so discoid won't 1 shot anyone.
3. Is 30m enough for 6F? Seems like the chariot takes around 10min to kill, so that leaves 20min for the gears + downtime. Is it enough?

Seems like this run is just a lot of time crunch, last time we timed out when the boss was at around 45%, so we're gonna try to cut time here and there this run.

With only 2 melee, dont split up. You can get 4 weapons/JA/SJ just from clearing inner rooms. Seems like you want to spend the most time on magic/SJ though. I would just clear inner rooms to SJ area, till you have enough (with 8 people, thats like 2 rooms), then back track and clear magic. You may end up spending more then 20 min with just 8 and having to clear an entire wing.

30 is plenty of time on the 6th floor provinding you are steadily pulling. I set up a darkness SC for the gears and here is what happens:

I pull, mages and melee in corner, gear gets to camp, blms(usually 2) put DoT up, enfeebles are put up, about 5-10 seconds later we go asuran fists -> steel cyclone -> bliz 4 X2 (gear is now at 20% or less), the blms go into a rapid stun order to prevent restore and then free nuke as we finish them off. Each gear takes approximately 1 minute with little curing needed and i continually pull. The chariot however does take about 8-9 minutes for us (9 minutes last time with 2 mnks and a blm DDing it). You may not have a war/drk/sam/blue that can make darkness with your mnks, but honestly i bring one along anytime im farming gears simply because a carefully planned out gear attack allows for quick kills, no restores, and low Down time.

My usual setup:
mnkX2, whm, rdm, brd, blm, blm, war, thf, nin/pld, pup, blu.

As for HP, bring TH. w/o a thf we cleared all the mamools on 3rd floor once for 1 max mp and 2 max hp. With a thf we were getting every kill.


One question for everyone. The 3rd floor mamools, that drop 3 of one stat cells (and sometimes 2 of another), and hp/mp cells. Do the same mamools drop the same stats each time? I.E do the drg mamools drop mnd or somthing along that lines? We have wasted alot of time before searching for panus cells on this floor. Was wondering if i could just target the needed cells, or at least get pannus faster.

Also want to say thanx to everyone working hard to figure out the zhayolm NMs mystery. I havent had the chance to help out on this research as our group has been focused on other things, but i will try to add/tess any theories you guys have sometime. Thankyou again,.

[divisortheory]

Granted there's no way to tell what they mean by NM, but the way they refer to the issues in
arrapago as "some monsters" and for Bhaflau and Z it's "Notorious Monsters" makes me think it was intended. If someone can manage to dig up the Japanese text for this patch it might be clearer, I'm really not sure where to look.

It won't help, since Japanese doesn't even really use plurals in the first place.

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The only thing that makes me bring this up is that the 114-mob run = pop, and the 114 mob run minus socket NM = no pop, which is a very strange spawn condition unless the problem is that there was one less "NM" killed.

I said this previously numerous times, but we could have just gotten lucky 3x in a row with the 114-mob pop, and it made our chances very high but not necessarily 100%. There was also a time difference.

[Hanyoko]

I wonder if the first floor gents would be considered NMs then.

I sure do hope its just a kill count and not time+kill count triggers.

[divisortheory]

What are all the chest dropping mobs in Zhayolm? Off the top of my head, each of the 4 Mamool on 1F, each of the 4 Gents on 1F, each of the 4 Mamool on 2F, the 2 Madames on 3F, and the 1 Madame on 4F all drop chests. Anything else?

[Vistani]

The third floor madames don't drop chests, the third floor ramparts do. Also the fifth floor madames drop chests as well as the fifth floor rampart summons (mindgazers/slimes) and the sixth floor manticores.

[divisortheory]

I was just wondering if maybe SE considers everything that drops a chest to be an NM. And maybe the 5th floor madame is a % chance to pop where % is a function of how many NMs you killed. Like 0 NMs=0%, 1NM=20%, 2NM=40%, 3NM=60%, etc. In the 114 mob run, there's 3 (1st and 2nd Mamool, and 3rd Rampart).

Does 4th North drop chest? I've never killed it

[Suiram]

Followed Aurik #11. Got to 5th floor, wasn't up. Hermes trained to the portal to sixth and opened it, it popped. Followed his plan exactly except killed First Rampart instead of Third, and also his plan doesn't specify pets (part of why I'm not a fan of the new diagrams) but we killed the 4th floor BST before it summoned lizard, which may have been different, too.

[Jaceot]

Followed Aurik #11. Got to 5th floor, wasn't up. Hermes trained to the portal to sixth and opened it, it popped. Followed his plan exactly except killed First Rampart instead of Third, and also his plan doesn't specify pets (part of why I'm not a fan of the new diagrams) but we killed the 4th floor BST before it summoned lizard, which may have been different, too.

This was south? Im starting to think SE just ninja edits Zhaylom anytime anyone pops the madame and changes the condition.... Did it pop exactly when the door was opened? or maybe just when one of the gears was aggroed. /em clings desperately to random theory: Maybe you even just have to aggro a trigger mob thats chosen at random anywhere on floor 1-5!

Another random theory: Maybe the Madame is on some sort of timer and will pop 100 minutes after you enter the zone. However killing certain things causes the timer to decrease by a certain amount. I have to admit that it doesnt really go well with the current data (aka why would Aurik's run 9 not pop it when 11 does). However it would explain madames popping usually when you zone up, but in a few reported cases partway though the floor. Also would explain why the 114 mob run is reliable. If people continue to kill the 5th floor chariot, they should check for the madame after its dead too. Normally people spend about 2 minutes on floor 5 tops so you probably only would see it if it were already up when you got there.


My brain... It boils! >.<

[aurik]

Followed Aurik #11. Got to 5th floor, wasn't up. Hermes trained to the portal to sixth and opened it, it popped. Followed his plan exactly except killed First Rampart instead of Third, and also his plan doesn't specify pets (part of why I'm not a fan of the new diagrams) but we killed the 4th floor BST before it summoned lizard, which may have been different, too.

Is it possible that you didn't see it initially?

[Suiram]

No, I went BLM75/RNG01 for widescan. I can say with certainty it was not up when we ported up. Another thing different was, we had some time issues on floor 3, so we didn't make it up until much much later than in your run, there were 12 min left in the zone when we hit 5th floor, give or take a few min, and around 7 min left when madame popped.

[aurik]

And you didn't kill anything on the floor between zoning up and the madame popping?

[Suiram]

And you didn't kill anything on the floor between zoning up and the madame popping?

Nope, we were low on time like I said, so I was like "fuck it" and popped a hermes and ran to the portal rather than try to MGS it, opened the door, and ran around the portal room trying to see if i could lose the chariot and the gears on me, died, reraised, scanned, and it was up.

This is the run detailed to the best of my recollection, so you can compare to what was different from your run:

Floor1: Cleared the 1st puk room, widescan-pulled the two Ziz cell-droppers, cleared the 1st raptor room, cleared the 1st bugard room, killed 3 bugard from 2nd bugard room, cleared the 2nd ziz room, killed three puk from 2nd puk room--didn't link the last the one in that room, ported up.

Floor2: Cleared NE lizard room + mamool, killed the 3 lizards by the door in SE, killed the 3 wyverns by the door in NW then cleared the other pack of 3 in that room, killed the two wyverns by the door in SW then pulled 2 of the 3 in the pack of 3 in the lower-left corner--both of which happened to be the cell droppers--didn't link the 3rd in that pack, ported up.

Floor3: Moved west, cleared the NIN room, cleared the DRG room + all 4 wyverns, cleared the BST room + all 4 lizards, backtracked, cleared all of the east/north mamool wing, spammed stone/warp cudgel melee on the rampart until it popped tiger, slept tiger, killed rampart, killed tiger, killed madame, ported up.

Floor4: Moved to mamool room right away, cleared all 4 mamools and wyvern pet (no lizard pop), killed First Rampart (entered on firesday) no Marid pop, ported up.

Floor5: Widescanned, no madame, trained to portal, madame popped.

Probably none of this is interesting or different other than the obvious but I figured good to get it written down before I forget the details in case they become important later.

[Kaylia]

Do you know when you zoned up? Would be interesting to see around what time it popped

[Suiram]

Sorry I wrote 12 min left when we ported up but that seems like it can't be right based on how much time was left while we were fighting madame. Niv is asleep or something now or else I'd ask him to clarify, but what he told me was "2:01 port, 2:25 port, 3:07 port, 10 min warning @3:09" (I had asked him to keep a record of port up times as well as clock the 10 min warning since nobody remembered to clock entry time when we first went in). I'm guessing the 3:07 is porting to the 4th floor, 3:09 was while we were fighting mamools or the rampart, and we ported up somewhere in the 5-10 min range (90-95min in zone), since we definitely got the 5 min warning while we were fighting the madame. Sorry I can't be more clear than that right now, hopefully he'll see this later.

[Suiram]

Trying to think about what door-related differences there could be, and this thought occurred to me. I know that when you kill the mamool on the 2nd floor, the three doors to other rooms automatically open and the mobs inside them pop. What I'm not certain of is whether or not the door leaving the room you're presently in will open if you haven't opened it manually prior to the mamool's death. If the door does open automatically in that circumstance, then I'm pretty sure we didn't open it (if it doesn't open automatically like the others then we would have just opened it without much thought leaving the room after the mamool died). Anyhow the point I'm getting at is that if it automatically opened for us, and was manually opened by aurik's group, then in the case that there is some kind of mobs-vs.-doors relationship needed to pop 5th South madame, opening the one on the 5th floor was needed to make ours coincide with aurik's.

[divisortheory]

The first door is always open. Doesn't even automatically open, it's just always open. Also, regarding your run, I wonder if it popped due to time, due to aggroing mobs on the 5th floor, or due to opening the door at the end.

What if it just spawns at some random 5 minute interval, and if you wait long enough you're guaranteed to see it pop?