Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[tymora]

Makeup: MNK/NIN x 2, COR/RNG, COR/NIN, RDM/BLM, WHM/BLM
Floor 1
-------
3 puks
3 Ziz
4 Lindwurms
3 Bugards

Up at 90.11
-> 13 mobs

Floor 2
-------
6 Lizards

Up at 86.22
-> 6 mobs

Floor 3
-------
4 Mamools(NIN)
4 Mamools(DRG)
2 Mamools(BST)

Up at 75.57
-> 10 mobs

Floor 4 (Madame Up)
-------
13 Gents (Only drops cells if Madame is dead)
1 Madame
1 Rampart

Gents drop
MP, Head, Back

Up at 38:20
-> 12 mobs

Madame appears to lose hate just a little bit slower than Gents.

Floor 5 (Not up initially, didn't pop at time out)
-------
4 Gears (They sleep but link like crazy)
1 Rampart

-> No pop on door open 8:08
-> No pop on timeout

Total Mobs killed = 47

Aircommand's site also noted that total mobs killed must be less than 40 to pop 4th Floor Madame. Anyone care to verify this?
Anyway, this kill completed a Usukane Feet for us^^

[divisortheory]

Aircommand's site also noted that total mobs killed must be less than 40 to pop 4th Floor Madame. Anyone care to verify this?

Never heard this one before. If true could easily be a clue toward the 5th floor condition though.

[Gwynplaine]

Recently began doing Zhayolm so I took it upon myself to re-read this thread. Figured I'd take notes as I read since it seems like this 35 armor shit won't be pinpointed too soon. So here is most every run posted in this thread summarized, each has the page number for reference. Obviously not all details are given since I tried to make it as terse as possible. I kept them in chronological order as they were posted to keep the evolution of the testing clear, and also in case the "NM's counted in Zhayolm" update winds up having had some impact on older runs.

Fourth Floor:
The conditions for fourth floor madame's has been pretty solid. A few people have reported irregularities lately so I figured I'd include 4F as well.

NORTH
-Defeating all poroggo had no results (Sci p3).
-Defeating all enemies had no results (Sykes p6).
-Defeating all poroggo gents on 1F and 4F had no results (Sykes p6).
-Defeating all poroggo and mamool had no results (Sci p8).
-At this point I think a lot of posts from discovering 4F North madame were lost in server rollback.
-Entering 4F at 31 minutes had no results (Marinka p29).
-Entering 4F at 28 minutes resulted in a madame (Klapaucius p27).
-Entering 4F at 28 minutes resulted in a madame (Aemora p29).
-Defeated 4F madame, avoided spawning 1F gents 2F mamool and 3F madame, arriving at 102 minutes had no results (Tymora p55).

SOUTH
-Defeating all poroggo gents had no results (Sci p9).
-Spawning no 1F gents or 2F mamool, avoiding 1F mamool and 3F rampart resulted in a madame (Suriam p20).
-Spawning no 1F gents or 2F mamool, avoiding 1F mamool and 3F rampart had no results (Sci p20).
-Spawning no 1F gents or 2F mamool, avoiding 1F mamool and 3F rampart, entering at 45 minutes resulted in a madame (Xerlic p23).
-Spawning no 1F gents or 2F mamool, avoiding 1F mamool and 3F rampart, and entering at 45 minutes resulted in a madame (Wizerd p23).
-Entering 4F at 35 minutes resulted in a madame (Divisor p29).
-Entering 4F around 47 minutes resulted in a madame (Sady p29).
-Entering 4F at 28 minutes resulted in a madame (Nikko p31).
-Entering 4F between 30-35 minutes resulted in a madame (Futceez 32).
-Entering 4F at 47 minutes had no results (Jaceot p33).
-Defeating 6 mamool, arriving at 27 minutes resulted in a madame (Marinka p53).

Fifth Floor:
On at least two occasions, it was observed that only one of the ramparts were spawned upon entering the floor. Similarly, the Chariot has also been observed to be missing until only later having spawned. The same goes for the madame. All three have been witnessed being already spawned, and also being spawned later after entering. There's something weird all around with the fifth floor it would seem. Mobs spawning at odd times, gears that move in patterns, a Chariot that attracts unsleepable gears, and ramparts that don't aggro.

*Unsure what side this was: Defeating all enemies on 3F had no results (Aurik p38).

NORTH
-Entering 5F at 32 minutes had no results (Suiram p26).
-JP group having "activated" ramparts and defeating some gears resulted in a madame spawning (Divisor and Elmer p28).
-Ramparts couldn't be "activated", defeating some gears after rampart linked had no results (Suiram p31).
-Entering 5F at 32 minutes had no results (Aurik p34).
-Entering 5F at 85-90 minutes had no results (Ambir p35).
-Defeating 4F madame and marid, and arriving at 38 minutes had no results (Almalexia p36).
-Defeating 3F madame, 4F marid, and arriving at 139 minutes had no results (Aemora p36).
-Defeating 4F madame and marid had no results (Narse p36).
-Defeating 20 mamool, no 4F madame spawned, arriving at 43 minutes had no results (Julian p48).

SOUTH
-Defeating all 5F enemies except two slime had no results (Faranim p7).
-Defeating all 5F enemies had no results (Kaeko p8).
-JP group avoiding poroggo and 1F mamool, arriving at 50 minutes resulted in a madame (Lhexh p22).
-Defeating 4F Zenist, avoiding 4F madame, arriving at 51 minutes resulted in a madame (Divisor p29).
-Defeating 2F mamool, and 4F madame, arriving at 51 minutes had no results (Divisor p29).
-Defeating 2F mamool, arriving at 54 minutes had no results (Xerlic p29).
-Defeating 2F mamool, avoiding 4F madame and gents, arriving at 51 minutes resulted in a madame (Mhmmimafreak p30).
-Defeating 2F mamool, avoiding 4F madame and gents, arriving at 51 minutes resulted in a madame (Mhmmimafreak p30).
-Entering 5F at 51 minutes had no results (Almalexia p30).
-Using less than 15 minutes per floor, and defeating 4F madame had no results (Slott p 32).
-Using less than 15 minutes per floor, defeating 4F madame, and arriving at 50 minutes had no results (Lhexh p32).
-Defeating 4F madame, entering 5F at 40-45 minutes the same day they began had no results (Futceez p32).
-Defeating 4FS madame and Zenist had no results (Divisor p33).
-Entering 5F at 59 minutes having not spawned 1F Gent, or 4F madame resulted in a madame (Jaceot p33).
-Defeating 4F madame, arriving at 52 minutes had no results (Forbidden16 p34).
-Avoiding 4F madame, arriving at 51 minutes had no results (Odog p34).
-Entering 5F at 82 minutes resulted in a madame (Arthars p35).
-Defeating all four ramparts on 4F had no results (Divisor p38).
-Defeating all four ramparts on 4F had no results (Almalexia p38).
-JP group having avoided 3F madame, defeated all 4F gents, arriving at 82 minutes, resulted in a madame (Almalexia p38).
-Defeating 4F madame, and a specific rampart, had no results (Kaylia p40).
-Entering having defeated 70+ mobs had no results (Divisor p42).
-Recreating JP group, aggroing 3FS madame, resulted in a madame spawn (Suiram p43).
-Defeating 46 mamools upon entering 5F had no results (Slott p43).

-Defeating 26 mamools upon entering 5F had no results (Kaylia p45).
-Defeating 5 mamool, fighting, but not defeating 4F madame had no results (Wizerd p45).
-JP group defeated 20 mamool upon entering 5F and had no results (Divisor p46).
-Defeating 21 mamool, 75 mobs, and 25 mobs on 5F had no results (Almalexia p46).
-Recreating the JP group's run resulted in a madame (Divisor p47).
-JP group having not spawned 3F madame, defeated 25 mamool, and arrived at 47 minutes, resulted in madame (Divisor p49).
-Defeating 20 mamool, avoiding 4F madame, arriving at 60 minutes had no results (Jaceot p49).
-Defeating 20 mamool (unknown if 4F madame spawned), arriving at 61 minutes+ resulted in a madame (Sady p50).
-Defeating 49 mamools, 3FN madame (unknown if 4F spawned), and arriving at 54 minutes resulted in a madame (Vistani p50).
-Recreating the JP group's run without card NM, aggroing 3Fmadame, avoiding marid, arriving around 79 minutes had no results (Augiezwan p50).
-Recreating Vistani/Aurik's run, arriving around 120 minutes(?) had no results. Until the door to 6F opened when it spawned (Suiram p51).
-Defeating 10 mamool, 4F madame and 8 or so gents, arriving at 59 minutes had no results (Marinka p53).

Sixth Floor:
Is it true that the single gear don't link to the Chariot? That seems pretty random.

-Defeating every enemy had no results. Attempted by multiple groups.
-Defeating all enemies except the chariot had no results (Kaeko p8).
-Arriving at 47 minutes, having not defeated mamool or chariot had no results (Marinka p32).
-Defeating both ramparts and one manticore had no results (Divisor p33).
-Defeating both ramparts before manticores spawned had no results (Divisor p37).
-Defeating the two single gear first had no results (Divisor p42).
-Defeating the two single gear simultaneously had no results (although door to 7F was never opened) (Suiram p43).
-Defeating both ramparts and both manticores had no results (Suiram p43).
-Defeating the two single gear simultaneously had no results (Nynja p53).

[tymora]

Sorry, just noticed I didn't post the route I took. Its north, not south.

Also the 4F north gents started dropping cells after Madame is dead.

We killed 10 Gents > Madame > 3 Gents. (Last gent killed didn't drop anything). 2 of the gents after madame dropped a MP, Head, Back.

[Jackalman]

Floor 4 (Madame Up)
-------
13 Gents (Only drops cells if Madame is dead)
1 Madame
1 Rampart

Gents drop
MP, Head, Back

Up at 38:20
-> 12 mobs

I've fought and killed 4FN Madame before, and the gents don't only drop cells after she is dead -- they are jut a very rare drop. When I did it we had a problem w/ the pull, so we decided to clear all the gents. We killed 10 before wiping, and none dropped any cells. We recovered and engaged the rest of the gents before killing the madame. 2-3 of the remaining 6 dropped cells (don't remember which, but seemed totally random, like some equipment, some stats, maybe prae or opacus). Killed madame afterwards for the drops. We wound up porting up then killing gears on the 5th floor until timeout.

[Lujei]

I haven't read through the entire thread, so I'm rather sure these questions have been answered.

How much can one expect to get done in this zone with 6-8 people? We killed all of the Mamool on 3F N/E to pop the Poroggo Madame, but that killed most of our time. We were able to finish her off, but there wasn't much time for anything else. Also, another obvious question, is it killing every Mamool or just the 20 or so in the final room?

[Suiram]

I haven't read through the entire thread, so I'm rather sure these questions have been answered.

How much can one expect to get done in this zone with 6-8 people? We killed all of the Mamool on 3F N/E to pop the Poroggo Madame, but that killed most of our time. We were able to finish her off, but there wasn't much time for anything else. Also, another obvious question, is it killing every Mamool or just the 20 or so in the final room?

Like anything in salvage, you can pretty much do anything here with 6-8 people (of reasonable job balance) that you could do with 16-18 people. You need to clear the mamool in the small rooms along the path, too.

[Amele]

I haven't read through the entire thread, so I'm rather sure these questions have been answered.

How much can one expect to get done in this zone with 6-8 people? We killed all of the Mamool on 3F N/E to pop the Poroggo Madame, but that killed most of our time. We were able to finish her off, but there wasn't much time for anything else. Also, another obvious question, is it killing every Mamool or just the 20 or so in the final room?

Like anything in salvage, you can pretty much do anything here with 6-8 people (of reasonable job balance) that you could do with 16-18 people. You need to clear the mamool in the small rooms along the path, too.

caveat of course is that you have to be on your toes and have some experience with what you need to do when.

when my group (of 6) first started SSR we were taking almost 10 minutes longer per floor than we are currently, and the only thing that's changed is the level of comfort we have with what to do at each point in the run.

[alphacat]

With a good experienced group, the biggest advance is to have no need to call out cells anymore. People should know the lotting priorities with enough runs, so the cell caller will no longer need to waste time and can do his normal job functions.

[Helm]

I had my group intentionally pull mobs even if we knew they wouldn't drop a cell.


Enter time @ 10:40

Killed on 1st floor:

4 x Puk
8 x Ziz
4 x Raptor
8 x Bugard

Zoned up NE to floor 2 @ 11:00

Killed on 2nd floor:

16 x Lizard
16 x Wyvern
1 x Mamool (I.E. All but the extra 3 Mamool spawned)

Zoned up to floor 3 @ 11:34

Killed on 3rd floor:

12 x Cell Dropping Mamool in the small rooms and their pets

Zoned up to floor 4 @ 11:47

Killed on 4th floor:

4 x Mamool ( All 4 Mamool dropped two sets of 3 cells )
Third Rampart ( Entered on Iceday )

Zoned up to floor 5 @11:54

5th Floor South:

Madame was up, though no drops worth noting.

I suspected the pop had to do with the number of non-cell dropping mobs killed on the second floor. I'm going to get my group to try recreating this run, then again with a couple alterations, assuming they want to keep trying this... >_>;

[divisortheory]

Third rampart is in the northeast corner of the room isn't it?

I had the idea last night that perhaps you have to take the porter on the first floor that corresponds to the rampart that will unlock the door to 5th floor. This post seems to indicate that that is exactly what you did, if my placement of 4th and 3rd ramparts is correct, which I think it is.

Also, did you note on 2nd floor whether the first door was opened before or after the Mamool Ja was popped? In other words, did it open automatically when the Mamool popped, or did you manually open it before clearing the room?

I also find it interesting that you cleared the entire 2nd floor except for the 3 Mamool. I'm noticing a common pattern that every single successful pop of 5F S Madame had a large number of mobs killed on 2F. Just like in Arrapago, the common pattern is that every single successful pop of 6F QQTH has a large number of mobs killed on 1F.

[Helm]

I think the 2nd floor door was open. Also in regards to the ramparts, I thought that the third was NW, but I could be mistaken?

NW NE
3 -> 4
1 -> 2
SW SE
?

Either way it's an interesting idea, and I'll make sure to pay better attention to this next run. The fact that Madame seems to 'pop' from the 3 ramparts gives this a bit of credibility, and would think that the 5N Madame would pop similarly if this is the case.

From what I can tell I don't really see a basis for trying to add time into the equation atm, at least if we're trying to keep things simple; having to kill X, Y, Z mobs on floor/path 1, 2, 3, 4 and porting up at specific times seems entirely too difficult to discover. I think as it stands now I have to agree that either the day-path-rampart idea or clearing X on floor 2 pops this, at least from what I've observed from runs so far. I'm not sure what to say about the frog pop'ing after people have already been on the floor, perhaps that was due to some day-switch trigger.

[Jaceot]

Third rampart is in the northeast corner of the room isn't it?

I had the idea last night that perhaps you have to take the porter on the first floor that corresponds to the rampart that will unlock the door to 5th floor. This post seems to indicate that that is exactly what you did, if my placement of 4th and 3rd ramparts is correct, which I think it is.

Hmmmmm doesnt agree I think. Your first successful run (page 29) you entered on darksday, I assume you went NE. My succesful run I entered on Lightnings day and went NE which does agree with the theory. If in your first run you for some reason didn't go NE then this seems more plausible (assuming the ramparts are where you think they are).

I'm not sure what to say about the frog pop'ing after
people have already been on the floor, perhaps that was due to some
day-switch trigger.

In my successful run, divisor's first reported run, the most recent one, and a lot of others at least one day change occured, in some cases 2. Though there have been at least a few runs that were longer than 60 minutes and had no pop so....... hmmm....

[Helm]

Well I merely meant it in regards to the path taken up having a corrospondence to a certain day, not just a day change in general. Say You entered on iceday and instead of going up NE you went SW (Which the 'First Rampart' is on the forth floor). Of course when you got up to the 4th you wouldn't kill that one to go up, but rather the third rampart. However, let's say that since you went the path corrosponding to Firesday or Earthsday, the Madame would pop on those particular days. It's odd, but certainly possible.

Either way I'm still inclined to believe it's a mob based condition.

Edit: Entered on ice day like yesterday and went up NE, but as I though, NW rampart is the 3rd rampart. This path-rampart relation was no different than yesterday, but Madame wasn't up when we arrived on Lightningday. I think that yesterday we got up here at light day, which would match the path-rampart relation: NE = 4th rampart = light & darks day.

Besides this our run varied in that we killed mamool on the first floor, in addition to all the Ziz and that respective gent. Second floor, we only cleared the NE lizard room and the respective mamool. Third floor we cleared a lot more of the cell dropping mamool, but we killed none of the mamool on the forth floor.

I think it's worth trying to take a particular path which will allow you to reach the 5th floor on whatever particular days that match the rampart in that direction. It would answer how it can both be up and how it can also pop once people are on the floor.
NE- Light/Dark
NW- Ice/Lightning
SE - Water/Wind
SW - Fire/Earth

[Almalexia]

NW NE
3 -> 4
1 -> 2
SW SE
?

This is the correct, and since Helm took the Third Rampart (NW) it does not go in line with the theory "enter on the day & kill the rampart that corresponds with the route you chose on the first floor."

Helm spent 74 minutes in Zhayolm before reaching the 5th floor, so it is possible that he passed through a late Iceday, all of Thundersday and hit Lightsday as he arrived on the 5th. If the numbered ramparts are any sort of hint for earlier floors, then the NE route on the first floor corresponds to Lightsday/Darksday-- the Fourth Rampart.

So,
Southwest on first floor, arrive at fifth floor on Firesday/Earthsday
Southeast on first floor, arrive at fifth floor on Watersday/Windsday
Northwest on first floor, arrive at fifth floor on Iceday/Thundersday
Northeast on first floor, arrive at fifth floor on Lightsday/Darksday

We could also apply this to the second floor, but instead of zoning up it would be killing the appropriate section's Mamool.

Too far-fetched?

[Helm]

I've been ninja'd D: I probably won't be able to do zhayolm again until thursday, it would be nice if someone could test this stuff out before then. I don't suppose anyone knows what the vanadiel time was at 11:54 yesterday?

[divisortheory]

NW NE
3 -> 4
1 -> 2
SW SE
?

This is the correct, and since Helm took the Third Rampart (NW) it does not go in line with the theory "enter on the day & kill the rampart that corresponds with the route you chose on the first floor."

Helm spent 74 minutes in Zhayolm before reaching the 5th floor, so it is possible that he passed through a late Iceday, all of Thundersday and hit Lightsday as he arrived on the 5th. If the numbered ramparts are any sort of hint for earlier floors, then the NE route on the first floor corresponds to Lightsday/Darksday-- the Fourth Rampart.

Think you added wrong, it looks like about 55ish minutes to me, without adding it up precisely.

[Helm]

Entered at 10:40 got up there at 11:54... probably got to the madame area at 11:58~

10:40 -> 11:40 = 60
11:40 -> 11:54 = 14
74

[divisortheory]

Entered at 10:40 got up there at 11:54... probably got to the madame area at 11:58~

10:40 -> 11:40 = 60
11:40 -> 11:54 = 14
74

ohh I get it. I didn't notice the entered at 10:40, I thought the other times were the amount of time spent on each floor.

[Jaceot]

I've been ninja'd D: I probably won't be able to do zhayolm again until thursday, it would be nice if someone could test this stuff out before then. I don't suppose anyone knows what the vanadiel time was at 11:54 yesterday?

time zone?

In mountain time firesday ends at 23:24, so 23:54 was 23.5 hours earlier than todays end of firesday = 1410 minutes, a game day is 57.6 minutes. So 24.5 game days ago you ported up. If you were in mountain you wouldve gotten there during Darksday, if you are in CST you wouldve gotten there during lightsday, if you live in EST then it was lightningday. Double check my math if you wanna take any of this for any value its kinda late here lol.

So,
Southwest on first floor, arrive at fifth floor on Firesday/Earthsday
Southeast on first floor, arrive at fifth floor on Watersday/Windsday
Northwest on first floor, arrive at fifth floor on Iceday/Thundersday
Northeast on first floor, arrive at fifth floor on Lightsday/Darksday

We could also apply this to the second floor, but instead of zoning up it would be killing the appropriate section's Mamool.

Concept could be right, but the specifics cant be. Divisor's first report got to the 5th floor on firesday (im still assuming he went NE i still dont actually know) which disagreese. My run entered on lightning and arrived on either light or dark which agrees. Maybe if Helm did get there on lightsday and Divisorthoery can't recall whether he went NE or not then this should get some definite looking at.