Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[Francisco II]

Carby pull works only when the monster move before linking back with everything. Since frog are spellcaster, that will cast random stuff from long spell (burst) to short spell (bio), carbuncle pull might [will] fail horribly

Can't you just slap Carby on the mob, take hate, then Retreat Carby. I imagine even the squirrel can outrun Burst.

I think the problem is, you can't possibly Carby pull - because Poroggo Gents supposedly aggro job abilities - and if you're in range to sic an avatar on the madame, you're in aggro range.

[mackerel]

Carby pull works only when the monster move before linking back with everything. Since frog are spellcaster, that will cast random stuff from long spell (burst) to short spell (bio), carbuncle pull might [will] fail horribly

Can't you just slap Carby on the mob, take hate, then Retreat Carby. I imagine even the squirrel can outrun Burst.

I think the problem is, you can't possibly Carby pull - because Poroggo Gents supposedly aggro job abilities - and if you're in range to sic an avatar on the madame, you're in aggro range.

I can't imagine why you'd want to carby pull anyway, when Hide works. You do have a thf?

[divisortheory]

Carby pull works only when the monster move before linking back with everything. Since frog are spellcaster, that will cast random stuff from long spell (burst) to short spell (bio), carbuncle pull might [will] fail horribly

Can't you just slap Carby on the mob, take hate, then Retreat Carby. I imagine even the squirrel can outrun Burst.

I think the problem is, you can't possibly Carby pull - because Poroggo Gents supposedly aggro job abilities - and if you're in range to sic an avatar on the madame, you're in aggro range.

I can't imagine why you'd want to carby pull anyway, when Hide works. You do have a thf?

Yea, I've gotten pretty good at doing this now with THF. Put Ichi up, then hit flee and run into the room, have a RDM hit Dispel on the Madame the instant it aggroes, by the time the THF is at the opposite side of the room he'll be out of casting range for the Madame, so it will start moving, but it will go after the RDM since he has hate. THF recast Ni at this point, run back across the room a second time, hit Perfect Dodge, then run to the entrance and hit Hide. Now THF can go help kill Madame, usually before it's even back at camp.

[mackerel]

Carby pull works only when the monster move before linking back with everything. Since frog are spellcaster, that will cast random stuff from long spell (burst) to short spell (bio), carbuncle pull might [will] fail horribly

Can't you just slap Carby on the mob, take hate, then Retreat Carby. I imagine even the squirrel can outrun Burst.

I think the problem is, you can't possibly Carby pull - because Poroggo Gents supposedly aggro job abilities - and if you're in range to sic an avatar on the madame, you're in aggro range.

I can't imagine why you'd want to carby pull anyway, when Hide works. You do have a thf?

Yea, I've gotten pretty good at doing this now with THF. Put Ichi up, then hit flee and run into the room, have a RDM hit Dispel on the Madame the instant it aggroes, by the time the THF is at the opposite side of the room he'll be out of casting range for the Madame, so it will start moving, but it will go after the RDM since he has hate. THF recast Ni at this point, run back across the room a second time, hit Perfect Dodge, then run to the entrance and hit Hide. Now THF can go help kill Madame, usually before it's even back at camp.

Don't you have possible problems with sleepga and bind with that plan?

[divisortheory]

Don't you have possible problems with sleepga and bind with that plan?

Bind isn't an issue because I have Ichi up, it will absorb it. It's a much quicker spell than Tier 4 nukes which they like to use so often. I've never been Sleepgaed, but yea it's a possibility I suppose. Eat a poison potion beforehand if you're worried about it.

[Odd]

I think the problem is, you can't possibly Carby pull - because Poroggo Gents supposedly aggro job abilities - and if you're in range to sic an avatar on the madame, you're in aggro range.

Anyone certain what Poroggo do/do not aggro to?

[Kaylia]

Can't you just slap Carby on the mob, take hate, then Retreat Carby. I imagine even the squirrel can outrun Burst.

And 10 frogs will follow carbunle while madame cast burst. When madame will go after the summoner, it will reaggro every gent on the way.

It will works if you get lucky and madame cast a quick spell, but will fail horribly if its any Tier4 or ancient.

[Wizerd]

Carby pull works only when the monster move before linking back with everything. Since frog are spellcaster, that will cast random stuff from long spell (burst) to short spell (bio), carbuncle pull might [will] fail horribly

Can't you just slap Carby on the mob, take hate, then Retreat Carby. I imagine even the squirrel can outrun Burst.

I think the problem is, you can't possibly Carby pull - because Poroggo Gents supposedly aggro job abilities - and if you're in range to sic an avatar on the madame, you're in aggro range.

I can't imagine why you'd want to carby pull anyway, when Hide works. You do have a thf?

Yea, I've gotten pretty good at doing this now with THF. Put Ichi up, then hit flee and run into the room, have a RDM hit Dispel on the Madame the instant it aggroes, by the time the THF is at the opposite side of the room he'll be out of casting range for the Madame, so it will start moving, but it will go after the RDM since he has hate. THF recast Ni at this point, run back across the room a second time, hit Perfect Dodge, then run to the entrance and hit Hide. Now THF can go help kill Madame, usually before it's even back at camp.

Seems easier to just ranged attack a poroggo beside the madame, let someone claim madame, then gradually creep out of the room until Madame passes you. Then Hide.

[divisortheory]

Seems easier to just ranged attack a poroggo beside the madame, let someone claim madame, then gradually creep out of the room until Madame passes you. Then Hide.

I've tried it a few times but the other Poroggos always end up moving faster than the madame (The madame is much more likely to cast a long spell, while if any single Nq poroggo casts a quick spell, it will follow you right away and thus be ahead of the madame). Because of this, I have to run back through the crowd of Poroggos, then let them chase me all the way back into the room, then run out of the room again, then hit Hide. Basically, at the time you hit Hide you have to have a completely unobstructed path to the teleporter because otherwise they will just reaggro you with hide up.

[Wizerd]

Seems easier to just ranged attack a poroggo beside the madame, let someone claim madame, then gradually creep out of the room until Madame passes you. Then Hide.

I've tried it a few times but the other Poroggos always end up moving faster than the madame (The madame is much more likely to cast a long spell, while if any single Nq poroggo casts a quick spell, it will follow you right away and thus be ahead of the madame). Because of this, I have to run back through the crowd of Poroggos, then let them chase me all the way back into the room, then run out of the room again, then hit Hide. Basically, at the time you hit Hide you have to have a completely unobstructed path to the teleporter because otherwise they will just reaggro you with hide up.

You're moving too far when you see spells being cast then. I usually don't even get to the stairs before I end up being able to Hide.

[divisortheory]

Seems easier to just ranged attack a poroggo beside the madame, let someone claim madame, then gradually creep out of the room until Madame passes you. Then Hide.

I've tried it a few times but the other Poroggos always end up moving faster than the madame (The madame is much more likely to cast a long spell, while if any single Nq poroggo casts a quick spell, it will follow you right away and thus be ahead of the madame). Because of this, I have to run back through the crowd of Poroggos, then let them chase me all the way back into the room, then run out of the room again, then hit Hide. Basically, at the time you hit Hide you have to have a completely unobstructed path to the teleporter because otherwise they will just reaggro you with hide up.

You're moving too far when you see spells being cast then. I usually don't even get to the stairs before I end up being able to Hide.

Can the Madame be silenced? if so, maybe it needs to be pulled with ES+Silence and that might work a little better.

[Darkslitter]

Seems easier to just ranged attack a poroggo beside the madame, let someone claim madame, then gradually creep out of the room until Madame passes you. Then Hide.

I've tried it a few times but the other Poroggos always end up moving faster than the madame (The madame is much more likely to cast a long spell, while if any single Nq poroggo casts a quick spell, it will follow you right away and thus be ahead of the madame). Because of this, I have to run back through the crowd of Poroggos, then let them chase me all the way back into the room, then run out of the room again, then hit Hide. Basically, at the time you hit Hide you have to have a completely unobstructed path to the teleporter because otherwise they will just reaggro you with hide up.

You're moving too far when you see spells being cast then. I usually don't even get to the stairs before I end up being able to Hide.

Can the Madame be silenced? if so, maybe it needs to be pulled with ES+Silence and that might work a little better.

it can't be I'm pretty sure

[Kirschy]

I noticed this months ago, and no one realli gave me a response to it... There appears to be a mob or two (probably more) on the first floor that is MUCH more powerful than the rest. Most mobs on the first floor do about 60ish damage per hit, while this more powerful mob always does around 250. I've had Hammerbeak land for over 800 damage without any kind of defense penalities. (A hume WAR can't even hit 800 HP with Carbonara + pathos.) It's easy to miss as most everything there dies fast and can be easily blinked with readily available SJ/Magic. I'll post some SS again when I get home. They existed pre-patch salvage, and still existed as of last night. Seems too consistant.

[divisortheory]

I noticed this months ago, and no one realli gave me a response to it... There appears to be a mob or two (probably more) on the first floor that is MUCH more powerful than the rest. Most mobs on the first floor do about 60ish damage per hit, while this more powerful mob always does around 250. I've had Hammerbeak land for over 800 damage without any kind of defense penalities. (A hume WAR can't even hit 800 HP with Carbonara + pathos.) It's easy to miss as most everything there dies fast and can be easily blinked with readily available SJ/Magic. I'll post some SS again when I get home. They existed pre-patch salvage, and still existed as of last night. Seems too consistant.

You know that's funny you should mention that. I always thought maybe there was one mob in the zone that checked something other than Impossible to Gauge. Sort of like how in Nyzul there can be one mob that does check impossible to gauge while the rest don't, but the reverse of that. In fact I was thinking about this not 10 minutes ago.

When you killed this mob last night, did the 5th floor Madame pop by any chance?

[futceez]

Now that you mention it, we had one of those Ziz before and it one-shotted our MNK with hammerbeak. I thought that was unusual but thought it was maybe just a double attack and crit on hammerbeak.

[Slott]

i always notice that on ziz too ;x

[divisortheory]

i always notice that on ziz too ;x

Are the normal hits stronger, or just the Hammer Beaks? Kirschy seemed to indicate the normal hits were much stronger as well.

[Forbidden16]

Interesting, in one of our past Zhayolm Remnants run I recall 100% that a Ziz one-shotted 1-2 of our DD's with one of it's TP moves, I don't remember if more than one did it as powerful too, nor if it's regular hits were as strong; but, normally Ziz aren't that powerful compared to that particular one.

[Wizerd]

Interesting, in one of our past Zhayolm Remnants run I recall 100% that a Ziz one-shotted 1-2 of our DD's with one of it's TP moves, I don't remember if more than one did it as powerful too, nor if it's regular hits were as strong; but, normally Ziz aren't that powerful compared to that particular one.

There were 2 different ones that run. It's just the Ziz in general because I think Hammer Beak is one of those "Chance to critial" moves like Sickle Slash, and Ziz seem to have high attack power. Without shadows = bye bye DD with no defense.

[Suiram]

You know I've been thinking recently about this too lol In Nyzul the other day we had an "Eliminate all Enemies" floor, and as the BLM I was soloing Mousses I encountered. One (unresisted) tier 4 spell to one of the Mousse did about 1/3 of its HP% as it would to the other Mousses. I was thinking that perhaps if the objective had been "Eliminate Specified Enemy" (singular) then that Mousse would have been the one to check ITG, and that it always loads it on the floor with the same stats, even if it isn't that objective.

Anyhow that got me thinking about Zhayolm Remnants and if we are going to start looking for 'special' regular mobs, on the 3rd floor south path, as most have probably noticed, there is that Zenist in the first room, and a Bounder (I think) in the big room that inexplicably never drops cells.