Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[Kirschy]

Was on normal hits + WS. I had only 2 screen shots saved Back from March (pre-salvage nerf). Looking back on the screen shots, all three had Guillotine landed on it before they went "rage." Easy to come up with weird theories, but maybe it's just weird mob behavior? 5fl Madame didn't pop on last nights run (we didn't re-check after opening the door.) [I didn't bother including SS of the Ziz hitting me for 60s.]

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8...3233215sq6.png

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5...gedziz1cx4.jpg

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/1...gedziz2eu2.jpg

[Neosutra]

So questions:

Fluke based on def/attack calculations and very wide range of damage options?

Is there a "hard" mob within each wing?

Using widescan or .dat, is this mob the same every time?

How many per floor are unique, how many to get any specific madame to pop?

My group clears entire Ziz wing ever time and havent seen 5th madame in a few weeks, so I dont think it can just be that.

Last encounter I had with "hard Ziz" was in the room right after the inner rooms, where was yours?

[divisortheory]

So questions:

Fluke based on def/attack calculations and very wide range of damage options?

Is there a "hard" mob within each wing?

Using widescan or .dat, is this mob the same every time?

How many per floor are unique, how many to get any specific madame to pop?

My group clears entire Ziz wing ever time and havent seen 5th madame in a few weeks, so I dont think it can just be that.

Last encounter I had with "hard Ziz" was in the room right after the inner rooms, where was yours?

More questions:

- Has anyone ever encountered a "hard ziz" that was hard before any WSs were used?
- Has anyone ever encountered hard puk, hard bugard, hard raptor, or hard gay?
- Has anyone ever /checked the hard ziz?


I had gotten the idea that perhaps there is a point system in Zhayolm Remnants. Remember that time the FFXI update notes said "Fixed the way in which the game counts defeated notorious monters in zhayolm remnants"? Maybe certain mobs are worth certain amounts of "points", and you need a certain number of points to get it to pop. If such were the case, maybe hard regular mobs would be a certain # of points, gents woudl be a certain # of points, slot NM, etc. One thing that's interesting is that the 114 mob run was successfully repeated 3 times in a row, and all 3 times the slot NM was popped.

[Gwynplaine]

The 114 enemy run also included most of the Ziz wing. Maybe just coincidence.
http://kalia.ultimals.com/Salvage/114pop.jpg

But, like Neosutra said above, others have farmed much of the same wing and had no madame spawn. And the part that bothers me the most about 5F madame is that Suiram reproduced Vistani/Auriks same run through and had the madame spawn only after aggroing enemies and opening the door to 6F teleport. Which just makes no sense at all.

[divisortheory]

I suppose if it were a point system like I mentioned, then things like opening doors, aggroing mobs, or other things could count as a very small number of points, and they were just already close to the threshold. /shrug

[Sagacious Sundi]

I had gotten the idea that perhaps there is a point system in Zhayolm Remnants. Remember that time the FFXI update notes said "Fixed the way in which the game counts defeated notorious monters in zhayolm remnants"? Maybe certain mobs are worth certain amounts of "points", and you need a certain number of points to get it to pop. If such were the case, maybe hard regular mobs would be a certain # of points, gents woudl be a certain # of points, slot NM, etc. One thing that's interesting is that the 114 mob run was successfully repeated 3 times in a row, and all 3 times the slot NM was popped.

Stole my idea from my dream (but it had to do with 6F). In my dream we found out the pop conditions for 5FS and 6F, which were:
5FS: (This has nothing to do with anything and does not help out in anyway) There were 3 cactuars/4 Goblins/4 ziz that no one ever fought for some reason.
6F: NMs are worth points, with the points being:
Socket: 1
Slot: 2
3FS: 3
3FN: 4
4FS: 5
4FN: 6
5FS: 7
5FN: 8

I don't think the point idea from my dream revealed what was the total points needed to pop the NM.

[Gwynplaine]

If there's some truth to this "key enemies required" theory, maybe you only need to "encounter" them. During the course of their separate runs they each defeated the same number and type of enemies, but maybe the specific mobs differed enough that the requirement wasn't met until he encountered a key mob on 5F. This sounds far fetched and overly complex but it's the only way I can think of explaining it. That or if the madame requirements to spawn are met, it simply spawns whenever the hell it wants.

This was their run:
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/4460/zhayrun5qv4.png

The enemies on 3F and 4F would have to be the same specific mobs, so any difference could be ruled out there. The likely places for specific mobs to be different is among 1F and 2F.

[NynJa]

has anyone tried clearing the entire first floor to pop 5fs, and seeing if its something there ?

[divisortheory]

has anyone tried clearing the entire first floor to pop 5fs, and seeing if its something there ?

No but next time we get 2 Ridill WARs and 12 people showing up, I'll probably try it. It's a huge timesink otherwise, but with that setup you can have two 6-man parties, each with a Ridill, destroying everything in sight. Also the reason to bring so many people is because you'll be getting a lot of cells.

[NynJa]

could probably lowman an entrance, just to test the theory out, and take out 4f madame in the process to see it drop nothing.

[Kaylia]

I noticed this months ago, and no one realli gave me a response to it... There appears to be a mob or two (probably more) on the first floor that is MUCH more powerful than the rest. Most mobs on the first floor do about 60ish damage per hit, while this more powerful mob always does around 250. I've had Hammerbeak land for over 800 damage without any kind of defense penalities. (A hume WAR can't even hit 800 HP with Carbonara + pathos.) It's easy to miss as most everything there dies fast and can be easily blinked with readily available SJ/Magic. I'll post some SS again when I get home. They existed pre-patch salvage, and still existed as of last night. Seems too consistant.

I noticed an overpowered Ziz, but no one ever mentioned anything about it on the board. Thought it was a fluke or something. I will pay more attention to damage taken next time.

[Kirschy]

I'm fairly confidant it has little/nothing to do with attack/defense stuff. Almost all first floor mobs(from all areas) have very little varation in their damage despite using defender/taco(high defense) or Berserk + Defense Down(1 Defense).

I was talking to my friend (Daxam), and a Zhay run I missed 2 months ago had this in the logs:
(I put *'s next to important stuff. Left the rest in case it's a clue.)

[18:28:38] Special defeats the Ziz.
[18:28:38] You find an incus cell on the Ziz.
[18:28:38] You find a duplicatus cell on the Ziz.
[18:28:41] (Daxam) weapon: yin
[18:28:42] Blackwindffxi weeps in sorrow before the Puk.
[18:28:45] (Daxam) SJ dax
[18:28:47] You cannot cast lots. Your inventory is full.
[18:28:49] Yinnyth's lot for the incus cell: 132 points.
[18:28:50] You cannot cast lots. Your inventory is full.
[18:28:53] Special hits the Ziz for 41 points of damage.
[18:28:54] Special hits the Ziz for 33 points of damage.
[18:28:54] Kimble hits the Ziz for 73 points of damage.
[18:28:55] Daxam uses an undulatus cell.
[18:28:56] Kimble hits the Ziz for 46 points of damage.
[18:28:56] Ranged Weapon/Ammo restriction removed.
[18:28:57] Durbs hits the Ziz for 91 points of damage.
[18:28:58] Durbs hits the Ziz for 95 points of damage.
[18:28:59] Durbs uses a hi-potion.
[18:29:00] Special hits the Ziz for 54 points of damage.
[18:29:00] The Ziz hits Durbs for 23 points of damage.     ***********
[18:29:00] Special hits the Ziz for 33 points of damage.
[18:29:01] Daxam's lot for the duplicatus cell: 91 points.
[18:29:01] Kimble hits the Ziz for 66 points of damage.
[18:29:01] Daxam's Warcry effect wears off.
[18:29:03] Durbs hits the Ziz for 93 points of damage.
[18:29:04] Durbs misses the Ziz.
[18:29:05] Durbs recovers 100 HP.
[18:29:06] Special hits the Ziz for 57 points of damage.
[18:29:06] The Ziz readies Sound Vacuum.
[18:29:07] Special hits the Ziz for 31 points of damage.
[18:29:08] Kimble hits the Ziz for 47 points of damage.
[18:29:09] Durbs scores a critical hit!
[18:29:09] The Ziz takes 146 points of damage.
[18:29:09] Kimble hits the Ziz for 74 points of damage.
[18:29:10] Durbs hits the Ziz for 60 points of damage.
[18:29:10] The Ziz uses Sound Vacuum.
[18:29:10] Durbs is silenced.
[18:29:10] Dare : ding ding ding.. hi pots for sale
[18:29:13] Special hits the Ziz for 41 points of damage.
[18:29:14] Special hits the Ziz for 43 points of damage.
[18:29:14] Dare pushes cart.
[18:29:14] Kimble readies Tachi: Gekko.     ***********
[18:29:15] Kimble uses Tachi: Gekko.     ***********
[18:29:15] The Ziz takes 226 points of damage.
[18:29:16] Durbs misses the Ziz.
[18:29:16] The Ziz misses Durbs.
[18:29:16] Durbs scores a critical hit!
[18:29:16] The Ziz takes 117 points of damage.
[18:29:17] The Ziz readies Hammer Beak.     ***********
[18:29:17] Kimble hits the Ziz for 69 points of damage.
[18:29:18] Kimble hits the Ziz for 53 points of damage.
[18:29:19] Humblejoe starts casting Stun on the Ziz.
[18:29:19] Yinnyth obtains an incus cell.
[18:29:19] Kimble hits the Ziz for 68 points of damage.
[18:29:20] Special hits the Ziz for 45 points of damage.
[18:29:20] The Ziz uses Hammer Beak.     ***********
[18:29:20] Durbs takes 661 points of damage.     ***********
[18:29:20] Special misses the Ziz.
[18:29:21] Durbs was defeated by the Ziz.
[18:29:22] Daxam obtains a duplicatus cell.
[18:29:22] (Humblejoe) fuck
[18:29:22] (Dare) !?
[18:29:24] Kimble uses Seigan.
[18:29:25] Humblejoe starts casting Blizzard on the Ziz.
[18:29:25] (Daxam) ;
[18:29:25] (Durbs) ...

Granted Guillo + Gekko are both WS... I'm realli starting to suspect the Silence effect as being the key there. Would be realli easy to test by casting Silence spell on one. It could just be weird mob behavior though.

EDIT: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/viewt...hilit=#p542945 Thats was my post back on Apr 4th

[divisortheory]

Interestingly enough, when Sound Vacuum is used, the bulge under their mouth tends to get very large. However, Sound Vacuum is not used in any of the other screenshots. Also, in the other screenshots, the very high damage hit occured in the log before the weaponskill was used every single time (after the weaponskill was readied, but before it was used).

[Suiram]

Also, in the other screenshots, the very high damage hit occured in the log before the weaponskill was used every single time (after the weaponskill was readied, but before it was used).

WS readied > WS fires/WS animation starts > very high damage hit > WS animation completes/WS damage displayed in the log

[Jaceot]

Has the 114 mob run ever failed to pop the 5th floor madame?

[divisortheory]

Has the 114 mob run ever failed to pop the 5th floor madame?

Been tried 3 times. Worked all 3 times

[Lujei]

My group is interested in attempting this boss soon, but we're not sure on how well the battle with go with our numbers and classes.
Currently, our group consists of people who can play the following classes:
NIN/RDM/WHM/BRD/WAR/MNK/RNG
RDM/WHM/SMN
MNK
DRK
NIN/THF/WAR
BLM/SAM

Can possibly come:
MNK
SAM

Should this group be able to kill the boss? If so, how much time should it take, which jobs should we bring, and how difficult will it be?

[Avinor]

Typically for any boss you'll want the full support/healing power of BRD + RDM + WHM. You'll have to settle for RDM or WHM instead of both and thats going to be rough. Have every member who isn't a tank or a mage pack a hipot tank and as many hipots/aulaits/etc as they can comfortably carry, as well as -magic gear to help reduce their need for curing from the mages. And be ready to stop damage/tp to let your group recover after discoids if necessary. And give yourself 20+ mins for the boss since you'll have to take it slow. I'm sure it possible but you'll have to be really careful, especially since its your first time.

[mackerel]

My group is interested in attempting this boss soon, but we're not sure on how well the battle with go with our numbers and classes.
Currently, our group consists of people who can play the following classes:
NIN/RDM/WHM/BRD/WAR/MNK/RNG
RDM/WHM/SMN
MNK
DRK
NIN/THF/WAR
BLM/SAM

Can possibly come:
MNK
SAM

In the order you listed, I'd take:
BRD/WHM
RDM/WHM
MNK/NIN
DRK/WHM [If possible, normal melee subs are great for the climb but useless on BCC]
NIN/WAR
BLM/WHM

If your MNK and SAM come, they fit into the setup just fine. You'll be taking about 733 from discoids, 880 if the bard is out of range, but you'll have 3-4x Curaga II to cover it.

[Edit to cover the rest of the questions] I'd try to get to floor 6 with at least 35 minutes left, more if you're really worried, but make sure you have HP cells for everyone. BCC will take maybe 15 minutes with this setup, and it's very easy if everyone stands where they should.

[Seditedi]

Have yet to fight it, where do u get 733 from? lol I thought it was 4400/X amount of people, 4400/8 = 550 and even less damage from shell.