Salvage: Zhayolm Remnants

[divisortheory]

Just finished this zone. Ran out of time on the 4th floor. I'm still not sure what the best way to make effective use of time is. 1st and 2nd floors alone cost us close a little over an hour. Need to get that down to 30 minutes for it to be plausible to kill the boss.

[Julian]

Just finished this zone. Ran out of time on the 4th floor. I'm still not sure what the best way to make effective use of time is. 1st and 2nd floors alone cost us close a little over an hour. Need to get that down to 30 minutes for it to be plausible to kill the boss.

If you want my advice:

Fuck the megaboss.

There's no reason to start sorting out what you should and shouldn't get on the first 2 floors right now, because it's still unknown how the door on the 6th floor is opened.

IMO, just skip the 2nd floor, maybe clear one room for a bit of gear, then spend the rest of the time doing things to open the door.

Once we know how exactly to open the door it'll be easier to determine what should be farmed and what shouldn't.

[divisortheory]

Just finished this zone. Ran out of time on the 4th floor. I'm still not sure what the best way to make effective use of time is. 1st and 2nd floors alone cost us close a little over an hour. Need to get that down to 30 minutes for it to be plausible to kill the boss.

If you want my advice:

Fuck the megaboss.

There's no reason to start sorting out what you should and shouldn't get on the first 2 floors right now, because it's still unknown how the door on the 6th floor is opened.

IMO, just skip the 2nd floor, maybe clear one room for a bit of gear, then spend the rest of the time doing things to open the door.

Once we know how exactly to open the door it'll be easier to determine what should be farmed and what shouldn't.

well i'd recommend AT LEAST doign the NE room on the second floor. Otherwise RNGs and BRDs will be somewhat useless without their instruments and weapons.

BTW, it was mentioned somewhere that yhou must kill the rampart on the 3rd floor to unlock the teleporter behind it. This is false, as I simply walked past it and went in the teleporter.

[Julian]

I'm gonna stab tyche to update the op, that's already been mentioned =x

[Sykes]

Went to Zhayolm again today. The past 2 runs we have focused on trying to pop the 4th floor Poroggo Madame.

Just to test the theory, we tried killing all of the Poroggo Gents on the 1st floor, then clearing all of them on the 4th floor as well and nothing unusual happened.

My next stupid thing to test: perhaps the behavior of the First, Second, Third, and Fourth ramparts on the 4th floor is somehow related to which teleporter you use on the 1st floor. We always use the NE teleporter, and it was killing to the Second Rampart that advanced us from the 4th to the 5th floor.

I have no idea how the ramparts may be related to the Poroggo Madame on the 4th Floor, but I have a feeling like it's something strange like you have to go use the teleporter once to return to the beginning of the floor before clearing the Poroggo Gents, or it's lottery on repop or something like that.

[Hiruke]

Went to Zhayolm again today. The past 2 runs we have focused on trying to pop the 4th floor Poroggo Madame.

Just to test the theory, we tried killing all of the Poroggo Gents on the 1st floor, then clearing all of them on the 4th floor as well and nothing unusual happened.

Just to clarify, did you also clear the Mamools and Ramparts and then check again to see if the Poroggo Madame was up before taking the porter? Also, just as a random aside, fighting that horde of Poroggo... sucks.

My next stupid thing to test: perhaps the behavior of the First, Second, Third, and Fourth ramparts on the 4th floor is somehow related to which teleporter you use on the 1st floor. We always use the NE teleporter, and it was killing to the Second Rampart that advanced us from the 4th to the 5th floor.

That's an interesting theory. However, wouldn't the SW room correlate with the Fourth Rampart in this case? Killing the Fourth Rampart after using the SW port on the 1st floor... netted a repeat of the 4th floor.

I have no idea how the ramparts may be related to the Poroggo Madame on the 4th Floor, but I have a feeling like it's something strange like you have to go use the teleporter once to return to the beginning of the floor before clearing the Poroggo Gents, or it's lottery on repop or something like that.

lol... That would really suck if any of that is even remotely the case. If the NM is that annoying to pop, I hope it either 1) has good drops to be worth the effort or 2) has bad drops so no one will have to bother.

[Sykes]

We cleared the Poroggo room with about 2 minutes to spare, so we didn't kill a single thing or take a teleporter after the last Poroggo died. I would have liked to clear the rest of the floor, but we simply didn't have time. We probably would have been able to, but the first pull in the Poroggo room linked everything so we wiped right at the start. Yesterday we managed to clear the room without dealing with more than 2 at once.

About the Poroggo room ... it really really sucks, but if you're patient (a difficult thing when you have such time constraints) they occasionally hop in to positions where they are pullable with minimal links. I highly recommend pulling with silence. For what it's worth, because they're mages and they like to stop to cast, it seems reasonably possible to kite them around and pick them off one-by-one. We had a ninja do that at night on the last 5 or so and had no problem.

As for the theory, yeah ... it seems like it would correlate to the SW room ... or at least that is what the physical position would suggest. I think the easiest way to gather data is just to make note of which teleporter you used and which Rampart ports you up. I really doubt there is a connection, but it's worth checking out at least.

[Hiruke]

It would seem, then, that you likely have to clear the entire wing to get the NM to pop, which is what I suspected (since that's what you have to do with the 3rd floor Madames). You would have to tailor your run around getting just enough gear to pull that off (and having enough time to get there, clear the floor, and kill the NM), since it's a relatively high floor, and you have to clear so many annoying mobs (the same way getting the 3rd floor Madame is such a time sink). For what it's worth, they are very easy to keep slept if you keep them in a group. When they wake up they just start casting all sorts of annoying spells. Sleep will land prior to anything too terrible being able to go off.

Water Bomb seems the most painful thing about them, really, unless you find the time to unlock everyone's HP. The links are just painful because they prevent you from recovering after each fight. They also link from rather far away, and like to run out in the middle of nowhere to cast (which is why anyone attempting this should take your suggestion of pulling with Silence to heart... a clean pull can turn into room-linking nightmare very quickly). Poroggo in general in Salvage seem to like to just stand there and cast from a distance, so I don't see why anyone would have a problem dragging the horde back and forth. If their positioning gets messed up (they don't stay together), I could see it getting ugly pretty quick, however.

[Sykes]

One thing that I didn't mention is that we did clear the entire floor on our last run and nothing special happened, but we didn't kill all of the 1st floor Poroggos. (this time we did kill all the 1st floor Poroggos but didn't clear the rest of the 4th floor)

[Hiruke]

You killed the Rampart, also, and there wasn't a Madame anywhere? Hmmm. Well, there are, what, 8 Poroggo Madame in the .dats?

1st:
2nd: 1 (Socket NM)
3rd: 2 (North NM, South NM)
4th:
5th:
6th:

That leaves 5 currently undiscovered (one would like to presume none of them are junk data...). I would speculate that the least weird theory would be in order for the Poroggo Madame to pop, you must kill the "correct" Rampart on the North floor. When you cleared the entire floor, did you have a chance to use the porter? If so, did it repeat the floor or did you go up? Presuming there is a pop method on the North side of the 4th floor for one of these, you can probably pop it on the "original" 4th floor or on the repeat. I imagine you can only repeat the floor once, so the second time around every Rampart would count as the "correct" one? That would still be some incredibly painful spawn conditions...

You could say that 2 instances of Poroggo Madame are likely on the North side of the 4th floor. I would still speculate that it is similar to the 3rd floor, and that clearing the entire South wing would also produce a Poroggo Madame. This would also be a lot easier to test because you have to kill all 4 Ramparts, anyway. There are also less Mamools to deal with, and the Poroggos actually drop cells. Has anyone ever cleared the entire South wing of the 4th floor (Poroggo, Mamool, and Rampart all) and checked around for the NM afterward? If all of the preceding is correct, that would account for 6 instances of the NM.

One would probably imagine the other 2 would be spawned by clearing either the entire North wing or the entire South wing of the 5th floor. I highly doubt the existence of the NM on the 1st floor, as I'm sure that the entire floor has been cleared multiple times by various groups. Yet I've never read anything about it popping there. The 6th floor seems equally unlikely.

[Julian]

I highly doubt there's a poroggo on the south room, just look at the dat list.

[Sykes]

We picked the incorrect when we cleared the floor the first time. We didn't actually get ported up until our third try. We didn't try clearing the room on any attempts after our first one.

By the way, one thing that our linkshell members observed, is that you can see the monters repop before you're actually ported. We had everyone wait in the Rampart room while I ran to the teleporter. The interesting thing is that some of the Ramparts pop with their doors open, while the others pop with their doors closed. This is probably just some artifact of the monster repopping as soon as it ides, but I figure it's worth mentioning anyway.

[Hiruke]

We picked the incorrect when we cleared the floor the first time. We didn't actually get ported up until our third try. We didn't try clearing the room on any attempts after our first one.

As simple as it sounds, picking the correct Rampart may be the key, then. I don't think I'll be attempting this particular theorized NM again until I've taken care of other stuff first.

I highly doubt there's a poroggo on the south room, just look at the dat list.

I did look at your post of the .dat list. It has 2 Poroggo Madame by the end of the 2nd floor (and suggests 1 by the end of the 1st, and 1 by the end of the 2nd). Have you ever noticed a Poroggo Madame on the 1st floor? Do you think there's another Poroggo Madame on the 2nd floor besides the Socket NM? Your list also only has 1 Poroggo Madame on the 3rd floor (though by the end of the 3rd floor it accounts for 3 instances of the Poroggo Madame, which is technically correct, so either your list does not accurately represent the placing in the .dats or their positioning doesn't much matter), yet there are clearly 2, the North one which drops the 2 hand armors, and the South one which drops 10 (?) cells.

By your logic, then, there's 1 Poroggo Madame on each of the first 3 floors. That means an undiscovered NM on the 1st floor, the accounted for Socket NM on the 2nd floor, and apparently the South NM on the 3rd floor doesn't exist, leaving only the North NM as the sole Poroggo Madame instance of the 3rd floor. So, unless your post was inaccurate (I can't imagine why it would be, but I haven't looked at the .dat list myself), I'd seriously be interested in what exactly you base that theory/speculation/doubt on.

[Sci]

I was thinking about how trying to pop the Poroggo Madames again, and came up with another silly thing to try. Has anyone ever popped all 4 Poroggo Gents on the first floor, but didn't kill any? Just wait for the 4th one to pop and widescan for a Madame I suppose. I can't think of much else to try besides just skipping normal mobs. Or it's also likely there is no Madame on the first floor.

Also, on the sixth floor has anyone killed the manticore reinforcements with the rampart still alive? Maybe it's another Steam Cleaner type pop.

It's clear there's some sort of weird method to pop all the Poroggo Madames that haven't been popped yet. I'm still amazed that clearing those rooms of Poroggo Gents on the 4th floor didn't pop a Madame considering what a pain it is to clear those rooms.

[Julian]

We picked the incorrect when we cleared the floor the first time. We didn't actually get ported up until our third try. We didn't try clearing the room on any attempts after our first one.

As simple as it sounds, picking the correct Rampart may be the key, then. I don't think I'll be attempting this particular theorized NM again until I've taken care of other stuff first.

I highly doubt there's a poroggo on the south room, just look at the dat list.

I did look at your post of the .dat list. It has 2 Poroggo Madame by the end of the 2nd floor (and suggests 1 by the end of the 1st, and 1 by the end of the 2nd). Have you ever noticed a Poroggo Madame on the 1st floor? Do you think there's another Poroggo Madame on the 2nd floor besides the Socket NM? Your list also only has 1 Poroggo Madame on the 3rd floor (though by the end of the 3rd floor it accounts for 3 instances of the Poroggo Madame, which is technically correct, so either your list does not accurately represent the placing in the .dats or their positioning doesn't much matter), yet there are clearly 2, the North one which drops the 2 hand armors, and the South one which drops 10 (?) cells.

By your logic, then, there's 1 Poroggo Madame on each of the first 3 floors. That means an undiscovered NM on the 1st floor, the accounted for Socket NM on the 2nd floor, and apparently the South NM on the 3rd floor doesn't exist, leaving only the North NM as the sole Poroggo Madame instance of the 3rd floor. So, unless your post was inaccurate (I can't imagine why it would be, but I haven't looked at the .dat list myself), I'd seriously be interested in what exactly you base that theory/speculation/doubt on.

I was talking about the revised list on the bottom of page 6. The first list is old and was created when the first Madame was found. Since then the re-arrangement has been pretty obvious.

[Pendas]

I was thinking about how trying to pop the Poroggo Madames again, and came up with another silly thing to try. Has anyone ever popped all 4 Poroggo Gents on the first floor, but didn't kill any? Just wait for the 4th one to pop and widescan for a Madame I suppose. I can't think of much else to try besides just skipping normal mobs. Or it's also likely there is no Madame on the first floor.

Maybe you can only pop a specific number of Madame's in accordance with how many Gents you spawned or killed? It makes sense, we have Gentleman and Madam's, you can't have one with out the other. So popping and killing two Gents in the first floor would allow you to pop two Madame's on any other floor, while only killing one Gent (which may have been the case when others attempted to pop the Madam on the 4th floor) would only allow you to pop one Madame on any given floor.

[Sci]

Maybe you can only pop a specific number of Madame's in accordance with how many Gents you spawned or killed? It makes sense, we have Gentleman and Madam's, you can't have one with out the other. So popping and killing two Gents in the first floor would allow you to pop two Madame's on any other floor, while only killing one Gent (which may have been the case when others attempted to pop the Madam on the 4th floor) would only allow you to pop one Madame on any given floor.

On our runs to pop the Madames on the higher floors, we killed most of the Gents on the first floor, and performed genocide on the 4th floor, both North and South. And I'm sure on some run we cleared the entire first floor and nothing special popped. I think the only thing we haven't tried on the first floor is choosing a porter that would put us in a wyvern room, we usually always start with lizards for obvious reasons.

[Hiruke]

//mob distribution was weird and kinda hard to read in this floor ;x

I quoted the only thing that really caught my eye. So you were wrong before but 100% correct this time? For all we know on the 4th floor you can't pop the Poroggo Madame on the North side until you go to the second instance of that floor. Not exactly ironclad evidence that there is or isn't an NM here and/or there. Your list still places a Madame on the 6th floor, which has reportedly been completed wiped out by some groups. If there's been a report of anyone sighting a Madame above the 3rd floor I've yet to read about it.

Some of us are trying to find that "new info" you keep being a dick to people about not providing, and all you can do is either keep telling us we're saying stuff that's been said already or try to prove you know everything about what can and can't be true about this zone. So, enlighten us then, how do you spawn those remaining Madames? Oh, don't know? Then I'll explicitly give you the same advice you've implicitly been giving everyone in this thread: don't enter the conversation until you have something further to add of some utility.

[Lordender]

I honestly think the only reason why there is not much info coming out from this area is because there is no drops from normal mobs and seems to be NM related which is going to scare alot of people away from this zone. Bhaflau has the most info since it seems to be the most rewarding zone out of salvage at the moment. I don't think many people want to blow their AP on theories which is why this zone has been pretty slow to develop.

[divisortheory]

I honestly think the only reason why there is not much info coming out from this area is because there is no drops from normal mobs and seems to be NM related which is going to scare alot of people away from this zone. Bhaflau has the most info since it seems to be the most rewarding zone out of salvage at the moment. I don't think many people want to blow their AP on theories which is why this zone has been pretty slow to develop.

The only thing rewarding about Salvage at all is completed pieces of Salvage gear. So in that respect, no Bhaflau is not more rewarding, since the items you obtain there are worthless without a complete understanding of the other zones.