Salvage: Bhaflau Remnants

[Kaeko]

Based on Mackerel's post and Sykes' the 3rd floor rampart can be limited to something like this now I think...

1) Clear Trolls (possibly only pops North or South?)
2) Clear all Puddings and Trolls from North or South
3) Some kind of killing order is required (Would be confusing as hell if it was this)
4) Something from a previous floor triggers it (don't think so?)
5) Any of the above but only chance pop (knowing SE I'm guessing this one)

Also based on Aurik's drop table, I only see 2 missing drops on Bhaflau - lvl35 Skadi Body and lvl35 Ares Hands. Yet there are 2 missing NMs still - Pertyon and Zebra Zachery. If we're following the pattern from the other pop NMs, 1 NM drops 2 items - so the numbers don't match. Anyone have ideas on what would explain this?

[mackerel]

By the numbers, it would seem floor 3 and 4 ramparts give access to one piece each. But there is still a possibility that drop the same armor as floor 1 and 2 ramparts in addition, but are popped by skill rather than luck.

[Sykes]

You can't clear both the Trolls and the Black Puddings. The door to the north is sealed.

My group still hasn't cleared all of the gears alone either. Has anyone been able to do this? (this goes along with clearing the entire floor).

I THINK we have tried clearing just the trolls to the north, but I can't say that we have for sure. Has anyone done this as well?

[Almalexia]

Aircommand's site has info up on the 4th floor rampart now; they say you need to kill all 10 gears without them warping.

Adding confirmation.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g6...s/img_0055.jpg

Dormant Rampart spawned on the north side of the I-7/H-7 room on floor 4. I pulled each of the 10 gears, avoiding linkage, and allowing BLMs to nuke as hard as possible while melees threw WS. The teleport is definitely time-based: greater than 30 seconds, but each gear never lived up to 45 seconds from the moment of pull.

Ran out of time before finishing off RR's spawn. No Perytons popped.
The Tragopans take double damage, have about 3000HP, and don't hit very hard at all.

[Faranim]

Yay confirmation on 4th floor.

I've said this a LOT in this thread but I'll repeat it yet again:

A long time ago we tried to see if something would pop on the 3rd floor by clearing the whole thing. We entered from the NE and killed ALL the trolls in the NE + North rooms (NW and South is locked), and ALL the gears from both the east and west rooms. Literally the only thing left on the floor that you could target was the Slot (we didn't have any cards to use on it). Unless you also have to kill the Slot NM to pop the Rampart, it's probably something else.

Edit: how did you get past the room with the Chariot and Gears(multiple)? Can you sneak/invis or had to MGS / Sac pull it?

[Sci]

/cry

Kill whomever that is casting Bio II on the rampart....

[divisortheory]

Yay confirmation on 4th floor.

I've said this a LOT in this thread but I'll repeat it yet again:

A long time ago we tried to see if something would pop on the 3rd floor by clearing the whole thing. We entered from the NE and killed ALL the trolls in the NE + North rooms (NW and South is locked), and ALL the gears from both the east and west rooms. Literally the only thing left on the floor that you could target was the Slot (we didn't have any cards to use on it). Unless you also have to kill the Slot NM to pop the Rampart, it's probably something else.

Edit: how did you get past the room with the Chariot and Gears(multiple)? Can you sneak/invis or had to MGS / Sac pull it?

I can get through that room with no aggro usually by walking along one of the walls.

As for the 3rd floor rampart, there's also the possibility that 1) it's not 100% pop if you meet the condition, 2) it only pops South, or 3) Both 1 and 2.

Taking a page out of 4th floor's book, maybe all the gears have to be killed without linking again. Just because nothing special happens when you link them on 3rd floor it could still be part of the condition I suppose.

[Faranim]

Yay confirmation on 4th floor.

I've said this a LOT in this thread but I'll repeat it yet again:

A long time ago we tried to see if something would pop on the 3rd floor by clearing the whole thing. We entered from the NE and killed ALL the trolls in the NE + North rooms (NW and South is locked), and ALL the gears from both the east and west rooms. Literally the only thing left on the floor that you could target was the Slot (we didn't have any cards to use on it). Unless you also have to kill the Slot NM to pop the Rampart, it's probably something else.

Edit: how did you get past the room with the Chariot and Gears(multiple)? Can you sneak/invis or had to MGS / Sac pull it?

I can get through that room with no aggro usually by walking along one of the walls.

As for the 3rd floor rampart, there's also the possibility that 1) it's not 100% pop if you meet the condition, 2) it only pops South, or 3) Both 1 and 2.

Taking a page out of 4th floor's book, maybe all the gears have to be killed without linking again. Just because nothing special happens when you link them on 3rd floor it could still be part of the condition I suppose.

Well the condition on the 4th floor is just "Kill all the gears." The fact that they can't be linked or aggrod is just because if you DO link or aggro them, you can't kill them.

From the behavior of all the other discovered NMs in Salvage, the condition to pop falls into a limited number of categories:

1. Always Up (Arrapago QQs, some Silver Sea NMs)
2. Pops by chance or some unknown condition (Mad Bomber only)
3. Force pop (Slot, Socket NM)
4. Pop after killing certain mobs / clear a floor (Majority of discovered NMs)
5. Pop after killing certain mobs but not always (some sort of extra condition, or by sheer luck) (Bhaf 2nd Floor Flan Rampart)
6. Summoned from Rampart (in some cases the Rampart itself also has a pop condition)

Theories that have yet to be proven / occur:

1. "not killing" certain mobs
2. Things on one floor affecting another Floor

My only other theory is that there might actually be 2 different Ramparts that spawn on the 4th floor, based on whether you entered from West or East. So far we have seen the Tragopan/Peryton Rampart (wasn't mentioned whether entered from west or east). This is easy to disprove, but it's still a possibility.

If there is a 3rd Floor Rampart, it likely falls under the same category as the 2nd floor Flan Rampart... there's some unknown variable we haven't discovered yet.

Quick Edit: Another thing which hasn't been tried yet on the 3rd floor is killing all of the Single Gears but NOT the Cluster Gears... or vice versa. Is it even possible to pull the Cluster Gears without linking the singles?

[mackerel]

On the third floor, we killed all the west gear, then west gears, all the east gear, then east gears. There were no links, those were the only things we killed on floor 3, no rampart.

[Proxim]

I know this is off topic, just something I havent seen posted, or it might have. One of our runs we got the 2nd Floor Rampart to pop by not nuking anything at all. That means Hand to Hand the 4 flans. When we got in, 1 Skirmish Pephredo popped and dropped nothing while the Rampart was still spitting out more bees, we were just fighting adds. By the time we kill the 1st Skirmish Pephredo, another one spawned. So it seems like a possiblity of 2 NM spawning from the same Rampart is possible. We got a Hikazu Sune-Ate from the 2nd NM.

[Faranim]

I know this is off topic, just something I havent seen posted, or it might have. One of our runs we got the 2nd Floor Rampart to pop by not nuking anything at all. That means Hand to Hand the 4 flans. When we got in, 1 Skirmish Pephredo popped and dropped nothing while the Rampart was still spitting out more bees, we were just fighting adds. By the time we kill the 1st Skirmish Pephredo, another one spawned. So it seems like a possiblity of 2 NM spawning from the same Rampart is possible. We got a Hikazu Sune-Ate from the 2nd NM.

IIRC somebody reported getting 4 NMs from a single Rampart. Your wording is confusing, are you saying that a 2nd NM spawned before you finished killing the 1st one, and that 2 NMs were up at the same time? Or are you just saying that the NM spawned multiple times?

It's starting to get to the point where I'm tempted to edit the DAT files just so I can see stuff like "Chigoe 1" and "Empathic Flan 3"

2nd Floor Rampart pop condition is still a mystery...

[Proxim]

Sorry about the confusion. The 1st NM died then the 2nd one popped right after. And yes the NM spawn mulitple times.

[Ayn]

Apologies if I just missed this somewhere, but has anyone considered the possibility that you simply have to kill all the Flans in a certain amount of time for the rampart to spawn?

I'm wondering if I should have some melee go ahead to the east room while mages hang back and kill off the other flans. I sadly can't remember that detail when I spawned the rampart, but those of you who did spawn it recently, do you recall mowing through the flans fairly fast, or at least much faster than you did originally?

[aurik]

You have in interesting proposition there: mad bomber needs to be defeated in 75 sec or he explodes. The gears need to be defeated in 60 sec or they warp out. Maybe if you zerg the flans fast...maybe if you kill the 3f gears fast...

[Sagacious Sundi]

You have in interesting proposition there: mad bomber needs to be defeated in 75 sec or he explodes. The gears need to be defeated in 60 sec or they warp out. Maybe if you zerg the flans fast...maybe if you kill the 3f gears fast...

75 seconds for the Mad Bomber, 70 seconds for flans, 65 seconds for something (probably gears) for the third floor rampart, and 60 seconds for the gears? Just a thought.

[Ayn]

How much HP do the flans have? I do remember they hit somewhat hard, but maybe something as minor as making sure that melees have TP and skillchain the first run, murder the second one..

I'm tempted to have a pair of BLMs (or a solo BLM) solo/kite it, but without RDM sub or gravity, that might be problematic; maybe have the two team up? Either way, our next run is Thursday, I'll try to come up with something that'll help us kill them fast.

[Kaylia]

How much HP do the flans have? I do remember they hit somewhat hard, but maybe something as minor as making sure that melees have TP and skillchain the first run, murder the second one..

I'm tempted to have a pair of BLMs (or a solo BLM) solo/kite it, but without RDM sub or gravity, that might be problematic; maybe have the two team up? Either way, our next run is Thursday, I'll try to come up with something that'll help us kill them fast.

Around 7-8k I think

[mackerel]

Second floor rampart popped for my group the first time we entered, we didn't kill the flans particularly quickly, didn't even have nukes for the south one.

[Sady]

You have in interesting proposition there: mad bomber needs to be defeated in 75 sec or he explodes. The gears need to be defeated in 60 sec or they warp out. Maybe if you zerg the flans fast...maybe if you kill the 3f gears fast...

75 seconds for the Mad Bomber, 70 seconds for flans, 65 seconds for something (probably gears) for the third floor rampart, and 60 seconds for the gears? Just a thought.

An interesting theory. I'll try and remember to test this for the second floor rampart during tonight's run.

[mackerel]

An interesting theory. I'll try and remember to test this for the second floor rampart during tonight's run.

Please note the day/moon/direction in the Madbomber data collection thread too! :)